Arc LS, my first impressions

[geepondy]

Mind you now, I've only had First run number 10 for slightly over an hour so comments are quite preliminary.

Took it out of the box. Without initially inspecting it too much, threw in a CR123 and screwed the head down. No light. What? Nope, battery wasn't in backwards. Tried again same result. Grabbed AA and tried that pack. Phew, there is light so head is OK. Inspected the CR123 battery pack closer. Entire threaded area was caked in what I presume to be silicone grease. Other heads are not. Grabbed an old dishrag and cleaned the silicone off of the head. Voila, now there is light but very difficult. The light does not come on untill the last instant when tightened and still have to tighten quite hard to get to come on. Not happy with that at all. I think it is because of the wider but shorter button head of the battery. AA single and double pack's do not have this problem, thankfully.

OK, for fit and finish. Generally very good and solid, "almost" like a Surefire. Head and optics looks very solidly constructed and looks to be quite waterproof. Looking at the optics though, there appears to a bubble right on the outer circular edge on one part of the head assembly. Looks like it could be expoxy whether it's by design or not, am not sure. The diameter of the battery tubes is quite a bit larger then the diameter of the batteries. Also slightly although not significant, difficult to attach any battery pack assembly to the head at the beginning as the threads inside the head are deeply recessed and o-ring of the battery pack is actually started to be seated before the threads grab. Once started though, turns very smoothly like a Surefire. Before I get to the light output, I will tell of one problem I had. I was switching battery packs on and off quite a bit, trying different battery configurations. I had just removed the CR123 battery pack and inserted a different one and the light suddenly would not come on. Removing the head and inspecting it, I discovered that a piece of the rubber grommet that is very much in the same idea as the Arc AAA had become ripped off and was preventing the battery head from making contact. I used a pair of tweezers and managed to remove the loose piece and then everything was OK again. I am not sure why this happened but I have a hypothesis. The button head of the CR123 battery is considerably wider then the button of a AA and is not solid but hollow and actually has four equally spaced serrated openings in the hollow button head. Even a Surefire 123 has this type of configuration. (maybe someone could tell me why, it appears cheapen the battery considerably) As mentioned, the batteries are fairly loose inside the packs. When screwing down the battery pack, I'm pretty sure one or more of these serrated openings caught the edge of the rubber grommet and ripped it, whereas a skinnier AA battery button head would not have.

Now for light output. As reviewers have stated, the color is much more warm then the harsher tints then what we are used to in LED lighting. I like it better but I bet there may be some people who may think it is too warm. Not sure what the color temperature is but I might think it is very close to that of full spectrum lighting. The beam itself is much more narrowly focused and the outer edges are considerably more blotchy. On my particular unit, the LED is not very well centered, I think probably worse then my run of Arc LE's that I had with off centered LEDs.

It's very hard at least for me, to compare the light levels as the beam characteristics are so much different then the other LED lights I own. I just can not say "this battery pack equals x amount of Nichia's" Probably you would best be served to go by the reviewers scientific results. The single AA is much brighter then my Arc AAA of course. It is brighter then my two LED Turtle Lite II, although as I've said, more narrow of a beam. It actually appears to "throw" about as well as my Trek 7. The CR123 configuration obviously throws more then the Trek 7. The double AA pack is considerably brighter then the CR123 pack either with alkaline's or lithium's. The lithium's appear to be just a hair brighter then the alkalines. In this configuration, I can compare the light output to my Surefire E1 although I think the E1 still has slightly more total light output.

I've kind of hodged podged this together and I apologize if it appears too hastily and sloppy written. I've said quite a bit of negative things about the light but I've tried to be honest for a quick impression. I don't wish to return it. There are a lot of great features while certainly room for improvement. Things are pretty much what I expected for being a beta tester of sorts. I'll answer any particular questions people have or try suggested experiments. If someone is willing to post them, I can take shots of the light itself including close ups as I have a decent digital camera (Nikon CP990) but I haven't mastered the beam comparison thing yet.

 

[Gransee]

Thanks for the feedback (both good and bad). I also received your email (responded to it first before reading the forums). I received another email about the 123 pack for a total of two. I think the reason we didn't spot it is that we either tightened it more in testing or inserted the battery differently, etc. The other user said that if he put the battery against the retainer first and then tightened it down, it worked better.

Basically I think this is an issue with the retainer not being quite optomized for the 123 nipple. The hole for the top of the battery is too snug and doesn't allow the "+" contact of the 123 cell to make an easy conection to the PCB. We made it as tight possible so as to minimize rattle, but obviously too tight for these two reported cases (so far!). The fix will be pretty easily: make the foam retainer hole larger. While we are at it, we will make the OD smaller so it sits more level against the PCB. Once we get the new retainers punched, we will send them out for free to the current owners. A quick fix for the brave is to enlarge the hole with a quick touch of a soldering iron. Another quick fix is to simply remove the foam retainer until we send you a new one.

The "bubble" you speak of may be the key on the side of the lens. All LS lenses have this and is part of the molding process. It doesn't effect the beam though.

I am interested on hearing (good and bad) the thoughts of the few other people who received a first unit.

Peter Gransee

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

Received a pair of LS this morning, and like Geepondy experienced a simular problem with the rubber gasket. My findings are those of Geepondy; either the gasket is slightly off center or the hole in the gasket is just a weebit too small for the (+) contact of a 123 battery (I tried Surefires, Duracells and Sanyos). I found that if I first positioned the battery into the gasket, making sure that it was centered/seated that I had no problems. I can see that Gransee has already adress this so.....


Every one probably wants some beam picks, so here they are

As you can see, I have compared the LS with 3 other multi leds, the Ergo Marine, the Lightwave 4000, and the Innova 5x. The [number] following the description is the Lux reading.

Picture 2a is of heads Sn#03 next to Sn#04 just to see how much, if any variations in the color the beams

Pict 2b Cheapo AA Alkaline (cost me 5 cents)
Pict 2c Eveready Lithium AA, 2011 exp date
Pict 3a LS using 2 cheapo AA Alkaline
Pict 3b LS using new Sanyo 123 (sorry, all of my Duracells and SF are used)
Pict 3c LS using 2 Lithium, 2011 exp date

--------------------------------------------

Not exactly in the "fit and finish" category, is how the LS fits in the hand, and how easily can it be turned on with just one hand.

With the 2AA battery compartment, it is no more difficult that a 2AA mag; easy to twist the head with thumb and index while holding the body with the ring and pinkie.

With the single AA compartment, a little harder, but still "do able"

With the 123 battery compartment, the ring finger has little to hold onto. THe only way I could activate this battery config was to invert the LS, holding the head with the the midddle and ring finger, and twisting the battery copartment with thumb and index.

 

[jerry1]

Having just received my LS units about two hours ago, I had the same difficulty making the 123 battery pack work on any head. After lubricating the o-ring and wiping the grease out of the threads and twisting the empty battery case onto one of the heads very solidly several times, it finally worked when the battery was reinstalled. It works but it still takes two hands with a very tight grip and a strong twist, no one-handed operation of this unit. Other than this inconvenience, I am delighted with the units.

 

[The_LED_Museum]

The fresh new units sure do look nice, at least from what I can tell from the pictures.

I can't wait until I can change my Arc-LS page from "Prototype Information Only" into a full review, and I'm honored to have been one of only three people out of 6.6 billion on this small planet to work with the Prototype! The odds of having a prototype of this amazing light are like being picked the winner of the Publisher's Clearinghouse lottery, just without all the cameras, microphones, and balloons.

As far as this battery retainer issue goes, it never cropped up in the prototype, otherwise I would have piped up.

 

[sylvestor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr Ted Bear:
]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Ted,

Thanks for the pictures. Can you tell me how far (in feet) the flashlight was from the pop bottles ?

thanks,

sylvestor.

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

I am surprised that only 3 members report having received this magnificent light. Any other LS receipients out there??

 

[geepondy]

I'm surprised too. Maybe the hype has died down due to the long delays and the reviewers have covered a lot of bases.

Sure wish someone would respond to my optics question, I really would like to know if the yellow halo of light surrounding the hot spot is unique to my unit or a general characteristic of the lights in general. (see post).

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

Geepondy

here is what mine looks like

in my first set of pictures, both the light and camera were 72" from the sensor, with the soda bottles 10' infront the photo sensor.

------------------------------------------

Now with two days usage, I am able to report the following....BTW, I have two heads, and 6 battery compartments to experiment with. This is a fit and finish issue. The rotation of the head in not silky smooth. As compared with GMG infinity, SF e2, Mag AA and Innova 5x, the LS is the "roughest" action of all almost to the point of being "coarse" compared to the Innova 5x

 

[geepondy]

Ted, thanks for the consideration and great pictures. You must have a macro friendly camera as well. Mine LS head looks the same. I can't really tell from your beam pictures but do you have an all white beam or do you have a yellowish halo basically encircling the white hot spot like I do?

 

[RonM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> do you have a yellowish halo basically encircling the white hot spot like I do?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Geepondy - Sounds like you got the special Arc LS "Angel" version. Those halos are only for customers who've been really really good.

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
Ted, thanks for the consideration and great pictures. You must have a macro friendly camera as well. Mine LS head looks the same. I can't really tell from your beam pictures but do you have an all white beam or do you have a yellowish halo basically encircling the white hot spot like I do?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both white LS LEDs I've seen (one in the prototype Arc, and one loose LED) both have a yellow corona to some degree or other.
Neither has a beam that's entirely white from one side to the other. However, since this is only two LEDs, I don't know how the majority of LS LEDs behave in this regard.

 

[geepondy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RonM:

Geepondy - Sounds like you got the special Arc LS "Angel" version. Those halos are only for customers who've been really really good.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been good as far as lining the pockets of flashlight manufacturers this past year! I'm a regular working guy and my flashlight purchasing expenditures have equaled my computer upgrade purchasing expenditures which is my former most expensive hobby. If this keeps up, I can kiss off upgrading my mountain bike in the spring.

 

[geepondy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
Both white LS LEDs I've seen (one in the prototype Arc, and one loose LED) both have a yellow corona to some degree or other.
Neither has a beam that's entirely white from one side to the other. However, since this is only two LEDs, I don't know how the majority of LS LEDs behave in this regard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I have Craig. It probably encircles the center beam by a good 270-300 degrees with a slight break keeping it from being a complete circle. It cuts into the useful lighting of the white hot spot by a fair degree although less noticable in further objects.

Do you have any idea what causes it?

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
That's what I have Craig. It probably encircles the center beam by a good 270-300 degrees with a slight break keeping it from being a complete circle

Do you have any idea what causes it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know enough about the mechanical aspects of this LED to give you a good 100% accurate answer, but I'll tell you what I know.

It looks like the lens is capturing light both from the area directly above the LED chip (gives you the white light and maybe some very slightly bluish blotches) and the dimmer area surrounding it. The area surrounding the chip will give you the weaker yellow color you're seeing on the perimeter, because much less light is striking the phosphor in that area and there's no LED chip shining directly up through it to contribute to the blue part of the spectrum.

The "break" you describe in the yellow corona may either be from the alignment post on the inner surface of the lens or due to a slightly misalignment between the LED center and the lens center. Remember, these LEDs have to be disassembled and then reassembled in the form of a flashlight illuminator. It has also been mentioned that not all new LS LEDs leave the factory with perfect alignment to begin with, and would show this particular artifact even before they were installed in the Arc-LS.

 

[Gman]

Ok, I received my LS today also, s/n 47.

Had no problems with any of the three battery packs, worked every time on all three.

Other impressions:

Rubber washer inside is off center.
Beam is quite off center of lens.
I'd prefer the knurling was deeper, it's not nearly as deep as my LE. Tad slippery, the LS seems.

Lastly, that yellow corona. Whats up with that? Interesting is that when I look directly into the lens (the light is off), I see the yellow ring around the refelctor but
moving slightly off to one side, viewing at an angle, it disappears and the optics are mirror-like. Can anyone explain this?

Other than that it's well made. I wish the beam was on center and the yellow wasn't there however.

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

Geepondy

The first time you posted your question regarding the yellow halo, it just didn't register. Now that I understand your question, both of the arc ls that I have most definately have a yellowish corona surrounding the central white beam and just as you indicated, the outer ring is not a full 360 but more like 270-300 with the white center bleeding to the outter edge.

 

[Gransee]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
I don't know enough about the mechanical aspects of this LED to give you a good 100% accurate answer, but I'll tell you what I know.

It looks like the lens is capturing light both from the area directly above the LED chip (gives you the white light and maybe some very slightly bluish blotches) and the dimmer area surrounding it. The area surrounding the chip will give you the weaker yellow color you're seeing on the perimeter, because much less light is striking the phosphor in that area and there's no LED chip shining directly up through it to contribute to the blue part of the spectrum.

The "break" you describe in the yellow corona may either be from the alignment post on the inner surface of the lens or due to a slightly misalignment between the LED center and the lens center. Remember, these LEDs have to be disassembled and then reassembled in the form of a flashlight illuminator. It has also been mentioned that not all new LS LEDs leave the factory with perfect alignment to begin with, and would show this particular artifact even before they were installed in the Arc-LS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A much better explanation than I could have provided. Thanks Craig.

If I may add my thoughts...

When comparing the LS to the standard Nichia we must remember the LS lens magnifies the "image" of the die an appreciable amount. This fact helps explain many of the phenomena noticed by our fellow CPF'ers.

When the LED is on, you will get the bluish white center (how blue depends on the tint variation of the sample) with a yellowish "corona". The corona is jagged or "blotchy" because the lens magnifies the surface features of the phosphor cap. You will also see the enlarged shadows of the gold wires and die bonds. On top of that, the die under the cap is not a circle, it is actually a square. So the shadow it casts through the round phosphor cap will have a distinct square pattern to it.

Add all these features together, and you get the LS "fingerprint". I have stared at these things long enough to be able to give each flashlight a name base solely on some significant trait of it's beam.

Other characteristics you will notice is that when you place the flashlight very close to a white target (less than 6 inches), you will see concentric rings around the center hot spot. Sometimes either the ring will be off center to the hot spot or the hot spot will flare towards one edge of the ring.

When the LED is off, and looking straight into the lens, you will see a yellow hue. This is a magnified view of the yellow phosphor cap. At extreme angles to the lens, the cap hue will diminish. This too is normal.

I am concerned about some of the posts here that said the beam was off center. The way we test them is to place the flashlight on its side on a flat surface, shining against a white target 6 inches away. When rolled one complete revolution, the center hot spot should not deviate more than 1 inch. This is the same test used for the Arc-AAA.

Notice the test is applied to the center hotspot and not to corona features. This is because the corona features vary at each radius point. This can create a false impression of centeredness.

But ultimately (and to the casual reader of this thread wondering what we are talking about), the real test is if you the owner of the Arc-LS finds the light to be quite up to the task of illuminating subjects. The beam should cast where you instinctively point it and not be distracting in any way.

Our goal with the Arc-LS was to produce the brightest LED flashlight in the world for it's size and class. As you know, we also have a track record of completely supporting our products. If for any reason you don't completely love your Arc flashlight, please let us know.

Let me be direct: if you think the light produces an off-center beam (obviously since it was posted here), then we are poised and ready to do what it takes to make you completely happy. If that means to replace the flashlight, refund the money, etc then we will do it. I encourage anyone who has an Arc flashlight and for whatever reason is not happy with it to contact us immediately! My email is [email protected] . My direct line is (480) 752-8554.

We may not manufacture our products very quickly, but we do support them quite enthusiastically once they are delivered.

Peter Gransee
President
Arc Flashlight

 

[Lonewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Let me be direct: if you think the light produces an off-center beam (obviously since it was posted here), then we are poised and ready to do what it takes to make you completely happy. If that means to replace the flashlight, refund the money, etc then we will do it. I encourage anyone who has an Arc flashlight and for whatever reason is not happy with it to contact us immediately! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Peter with customer service like this your company will grow beyond even your expectations. We CPF members understand that by buying a first run product that there will be wrinkles that need to be ironed out and in a way we are actually a test group for your product. I own 2 LE's and from what I see of the quality of those 2 little yet quite powerful lights I will be owning a LS, but I want to wait for the bugs to be worked out. The LE is built to last forever and a great light(and that is actually an understatement).

Can you give any time frame when you will start mass production of the LS? Until then I will probably buy a few more LE's while you are still making them.

Thank you for producing a product that stands up to its claims and actually surpasses them. On top of that we get customer service that most companies don't even consider giving.

stepping down from soap box

 

[Gransee]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
Peter with customer service like this your company will grow beyond even your expectations. We CPF members understand that by buying a first run product that there will be wrinkles that need to be ironed out and in a way we are actually a test group for your product. I own 2 LE's and from what I see of the quality of those 2 little yet quite powerful lights I will be owning a LS, but I want to wait for the bugs to be worked out. The LE is built to last forever and a great light(and that is actually an understatement).

Can you give any time frame when you will start mass production of the LS? Until then I will probably buy a few more LE's while you are still making them.

Thank you for producing a product that stands up to its claims and actually surpasses them. On top of that we get customer service that most companies don't even consider giving.

stepping down from soap box

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you 5BY5

It will probally be about 6 months until the LS is to point the Arc-AAA is now.

The LS production is very difficult (at least for us it is). Had I known how much it was going to cost, I would not have thought this product was possible nor would I have advised it.

Of course, you are asking me while we are in the midst of the "new product teething" period. I am sure my attitude will change as we refine the process.

Just like the Arc-AAA, we will make constant improvments to the design and support our customers all along the way.

We did hold the LS back for longer than we did the Arc-AAA while we improved it further. It's still not perfect yet but it will get a lot closer.

Next week I am expecting to get the new centering jig fabricated and tested. If it works, great if it doesn't- back to the drawing board. I built one by hand and it seemed to do the trick just before the tool fell apart. I am having one custom made which should be a bit tougher. It may be awhile before the color LEDs are ready.

I will keep you posted on our progress.

Peter Gransee