Arc6 vs Nitecore EX10

[olrac]

Do you think that the Nitecore EX10 will eat up market share that a production Arc 6 was hoping for. Neither lite has been reviewed (in the the case of Arc not even production model yet). Just wondering what the membership speculates. But lets be civil about it.

My opinion is if the nitecore lives up to what it's supposed to be, it could put a dent in the Arc's target audience but not all.
Thoughts?

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

I have no idea about the nite core, but own a Arc6.

All I can say is that the Arc6 is the brightest single emittered light I own that isnt a P7, this includes 1, 2, and 3 celled lights. It is no joke, you have to see it on level 7. It only runs for 45 seconds before stepdown, but it is sick. McGizmo measured 167 lumens on level 7 with a primary. Using unprotected Li-Ion, I would guess 230ish lumens on level 7. Real out the front lumens, not claims.

 

[olrac]

230 out the front is really really bright!

 

[Nitroz]

If the Nitecore EX10 puts 130 out the window with it being a McGizmo piston light, nice control, and good regulation, it will be the deal of the century!

I won't pay $300 or $400 more dollars for 100 lumens, for 45 seconds.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

EX10s:
1) actually available
2) reasonable price
3) don't require me to bid on ebay BS

Arc lost my business with the ebay. The other two reasons are just icing on the cake. We'll see which ones actually end up being a "better" light soon enough, but I don't think the extra lumens or second stage in the piston drive are worth over $100. At this price the EX10 is actually a useful tool... and not just for myself... I can afford to buy them for friends etc. What's the use of a light that is too expensive for only the most well off falshaholics to afford? Flashlights are tools not trophies.

 

[matrixshaman]

Ok - I'll try to be civil. It is quite a comparison though and there are some huge differences in ways that seem quite paradoxical. For example knowing the history of Nitecore I will assume their mil-spec HAIII matches quite well as it did on my NDI. The Nitecore uses the extra hard aircraft quality aluminum T7075. The Arc6 uses the slightly less hard T6061. The Arc6 seems to have some issues with matching the anodizing but then not everyone seems to care about looks in a roughly $400 light The Arc6 uses some of the design of one of our favorite custom light makers McGizmo including the piston drive as well as what would appear to be the overall looks of a McLux and a McLux style clip. All good things. But the Nitecore EX10 also uses the McGizmo piston drive and we know a royalty was paid to use it. Royalties are good. We do know the Arc6 so far uses the Luxeon K2 TFFC LED which has been recalled due to problems and thus is in very short supply. Color rendition seems to be a reason for choosing this LED as well as the ability to put a huge amount of current into it to get a lot of Lumens - not necessarily effecient but for a pure blast of light I guess it's good for that for very short periods.

Rambling a bit here but in consideration of the advanced MCU and apparently lighter touch piston drive (versus the Arc6 which seems to take a fairly strong finger to activate) in use on the Nitecore and full ramping (100 levels of light output) the Nitecore has and all other specs considered I guess comparing the two I would ask this. If I knew little about flashlights but was knowledgeable about electronics and techno-savvy and I saw these 2 lights side by side in a store which one would I probably buy if they were both priced at $59? I'd probably buy the Nitecore EX10. But if they were priced at $300 or $400 for the Arc6 and $59 for the EX10 - well I'd probably think they made a mistake in pricing them. And when I found out they didn't make a mistake I might have trouble stopping laughing long enough to get out my $59.

So we are not flashlight newbies here and we know the history of Arc and have waited years for this light. Beside the fact that it can get brighter for a short burst of time what other reasons would anyone have for buying this except to be paying for the right to own the unique history of Arc and their latest light? To me the EX10 seems more advanced, smaller, lighter, tougher (at least tested to some standards including a drop test and a tougher aluminum) and cosmetically better (at least cosmetics have been apparently an issue with the Arc6 and some aren't happy with them and Arc stated essentially they are a tool and not built with cosmetics in mind). Looking at the pictures I saw of the insides on one Arc6 I was suprised at how bad things looked - more what I'd expect from a $10 import flashlight. Looking at the pictures of the insides of the Nitecore EX10 I see lots of clean shiny parts with a brass or gold plated positive contact and everything looked like a $400 light (well not the Arc6 $400 light) inside.

Can anyone guess how I feel about these 2 lights?
Honestly if I had endless amounts of money I'd probably buy an Arc6 too just to see if there was really something there that would make me want to keep it. But as it is there are enough reasons I wouldn't want to own it just knowing where the Arc flashlight company is now and what it has become. My sense is that Peter is a good guy dedicated to flashlights that has been through a lot of hard times to make things happen with Arc. But I don't have endless amounts of money. One of these two lights seems groundbreaking, innovative and cosmetically dazzling. And it's $59 retail. The other looks like a McGizmo knockoff that may not really be cosmetically great but it can get brighter - briefly. And it's fetching around $400 + or -. At least at this moment it seems like a no-brainer if you are making a choice between the two.

I do miss details sometimes so go ahead and make corrections if I've got something wrong here and do try to persuade me as to why I would want to pay far more for an Arc6 than the EX10. They do have some things in common and I'd expect as I said to see more similar pricing if I walked into the imaginary flashlight store above. I am very aware there are reasons why the Arc6 is selling for a much higher price. But in terms of features from the consumer standpoint why would I want to pay so much more unless I think that buying all my cars from American companies as well as other high dollar items isn't doing enough for 'buying American' ? I did know a lot more details of the Arc6 at one time but maybe I have forgotten some things as I did become very 'non-interested' shortly after it's release. So if the EX10 had come out just before the Arc6 what reasons would you have for buying the Arc6?

 

[this_is_nascar]

Do you think that the Nitecore EX10 will eat up market share that a production Arc 6 was hoping for. Neither lite has been reviewed (in the the case of Arc not even production model yet). Just wondering what the membership speculates. But lets be civil about it.

My opinion is if the nitecore lives up to what it's supposed to be, it could put a dent in the Arc's target audience but not all.
Thoughts?

Well, it's probably unfair at this point, since I don't have my EX10 yet. I do, however, have my Arc6. I'm hoping the EX10 can get really low, even lower than the Arc6. I can guarentee it won't be as bright, however I'm not sure that's terribly important, since the Arc6 can not maintain that level of brightness for long at all. In addition, the high-level of the Arc6 is not regulated, nor is the low mode. Kinda sucks, but that's a different story. The big difference in my opinion will be price and availability. The EX10 is available now and the production Arc6 will be ready....................... insert you're own answer here. In addition, the EX10 is probably either built in an assembly line fashion or pretty close to it, opposed to the 2 or 3 folks putting the Arc6 together by hand.

Price + Availability is certainly in favor of making the EX10 something to reckin' with.

 

[xcel730]

In a sense, the comparison is quite unfair just because of the price. If Nitecore Ex10 cost $200, I think it'll be a much better candidate. With that said ...

The Arc6 is a really nice light, and I was tempted to pick one up, and came very close. There reasons why I haven't owned one yet is because I already have a couple of McGizmo's lights and though the internals components are different, there are too many resemblances ... plus I got outbidded a few times :sick2: I chased after it for three weeks, and then gave up. I'm sure I'll own one eventually, but may have to wait for production version w/ or w/o K2-TFFC emitter.

Honestly though, I'm not sure how much of an impact the Ex10 will have on Arc6's marketshare. The Arc6 is not a cheap light (even if it eventually go to production) ... those who have the financial flexibility will buy it regardless of Ex10, and those who think the Arc6 is too expensive will not buy it regardless of the Ex10. It's similar to determining whether or not there will still be buyers who want aluminum McGizmo PD lights that averages around $300+ from the BST.

 

[adamlau]

EX10 is 7075 vs 6061. No quirky UI vs. known flickering and ramping UI annoyances. $60 vs $250 (staring eBay bid). Knurling vs. grooves. And no Kilroy that can be flattened out and keyring attachment points on the tailcap. Arc6 has a sapphire lens vs. coated glass. Dual sleeves vs. single sleeve. And comes with a removeable pocket clip and greater bursted output. For me, it is not about financial flexibility. Both can be had, but 7075 vs. 6061 and the quirky UI of the Arc6 has pointed me in the direction of the EX10 upon release with an R2, or better. Q5 is too last year for me .

 

[glockboy]

For the price, I can buy 5 or 6 EX10 for the price of 1 Arc6.

 

[olrac]

EX10 is 7075 vs 6061. No quirky UI vs. known flickering and ramping UI annoyances. $60 vs $250 (staring eBay bid). Knurling vs. grooves. And no Kilroy that can be flattened out and keyring attachment points on the tailcap. Arc6 has a sapphire lens vs. coated glass. Dual sleeves vs. single sleeve. And comes with a removeable pocket clip and greater bursted output. For me, it is not about financial flexibility. Both can be had, but 7075 vs. 6061 and the quirky UI of the Arc6 has pointed me in the direction of the EX10 upon release with an R2, or better. Q5 is too last year for me .

The pill is removeable and looks like you can mod or possibly NC will offer upgradeable pills to keep you with the current gen of LED's

 

[koala]

I own a NDI and waiting for the Smart Pds. I can tell you guys that the NDI shares the same Atmel micro attiny 8 bit family with the Arc6. As to which part numbers i am not sure. But the underlying UI controller hardware is similar technology.

The NDI has a boost chip before the Atmel minimum operating of 1.8v so it works with a single AA cell.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Just read about the EX10. Looks as expected. For the price, it cant be beat. I agree with what adamlau said, they should have went with the R2. Looking foward to a review with someone who owns all three, the McLux PD, Arc6, and the Niotecore.

 

[olrac]

I read in the pre-order thread that the Q5 WC was a gauranteed bin, I'm guessing that they couldn't get that with the R2 at this time. Maybe trying for consistency across all the lights made?:thinking:

 

[cave dave]

People keep calling this a "Mcgizmo PD" but while the physical parts may have similarities the UI is very different in design and execution.

I suspect most people haven't used a "Real PD" because of price and availability but its just like the Surefire A2, L1, L2 all of which have brilliantly simple UI. Here is how it works:
Push/twist a little = Get a low light
Push/twist a lot= Get a lot of light.

Lets run a scenario with the "real PD":
Scene 1
You have the "Real PD" etc twisted on low for around camp chores and you a hear crazed bear running towards your camp you can instantly access high by pushing down hard. It will then return to low after you identify that attacking bear as just a tiny squirrel.

Scene 2
You finish setting up camp and hit the sack. You wake up and want to check your watch in the middle of the night grab the PD which you can find because of the glowing trit, give that trit a light push and you can instantly access low. Only 3am, great you get to sleep longer, better zip up that bag, the temperature has dropped. let go of button and it turns off. Back to sleep.:sleepy:

Scene 3
Crash... bang, dang there must be a bear getting into your beer cooler. Grab the "real PD" and blast it on high in one hard push. Aww, what a cute baby deer. You watch it stumble off blind and confused. Back to sleep. :sleepy:


----------------------

The EX10 is very different.

same scenario:
Scene 1
you have Ex10 on low, but want high to check out noise. Click, click push. Squirrel investigated, back to low. Click, push. One last blast around the camp to check for bears. Click, click, push. Nope just squirrels. Click off and pass out. :sleepy:

Scene 2
3am, Check your watch. Oww, I can't see. :duh2: Dang shouldn't have left it on high. Click push to low. Nope still can't see because of the spots floating in my vision. Twist, click, push to ramp it up a bit. Woa! way to much, Click press again, dang its at min before I could release it. Whatever, I don't have time for this, back to sleep, push again for off.

Scene 3
Crash Bang, whats that? Fumble around to find EX10, Click on light. Dang now its on low from checking my watch, that bear is going to drink my beer . Click, click, push. Dang whatever it was it ran off. I better stay awake the rest of the night to protect my beer. :sweat:

------------------------------------------
Conclusion. Make your own!

The Arc6 acts much more like a PD.

I would have preferred had nitecore gone to a reprogramable (with some effort) two stage that operated like the PD.

PS I may have gotten the click, click push sequences of the Ex10 wrong, that just further makes my point.

PPS: Linear ramping sucks!

 

[Thujone]

David released a little tidbit the other night hinting that there was actually some two stage push a little/push a lot functionality. Not sure how it is going to work though. Perhaps I just mis-interpreted his post.

Edit: Posted proof below. So bambi will get scared off!

Besides if you are in bear country you have to hang your coolers they should never be on the ground! tsk tsk!

 

[Rat6P]

Everyone who would have got the Ar6(if the EX10 was non-existant), will get it, and some of them will get the EX10 as well........because if they can afford to buy an Ar6, whats a measly 60 bucks for an extra light.
Everyone who has to seriously think about whether they want to spend hundreds of dollars or 60 bucks will get the EX10..........and most if not all of these people would never have gotten the Ar6 anyway.
generally speaking of course

thanks for that description of the UI cave dave. Ive never used let alone seen a "Real PD"......but you just described my perfect/ultimate UI. Its so simple...a perfect application of KISS. IMHO

 

[Federal LG]

I don´t like linear ramping too, Dave! :shakehead

 

[Thujone]

I don´t like linear ramping too, Dave! :shakehead

I missed this, did David say somewhere that the 100 lvls were linear? I was hoping for them to be set logarithmically.

 

[cave dave]

I missed this, did David say somewhere that the 100 lvls were linear? I was hoping for them to be set logarithmically.

I don't believe its been stated, but it appears linear in the video and I think that is how the other nitecores work. I can tell in the video that the low levels fly by fast!