Are batteries made for flashlights, or flashlights made for batteries?

[mon90ey]

Here's a thought to ponder-Years ago, someone came up with an idea for the perfect coffee filter. Trouble was, there weren't any coffee pots that could use the design. All the coffee pots were percolator types that had a metal basket to hold the coffee. So some extremely bright inventor came up with the idea of a drip type coffee pot that would use this disposable filter, and the drip type coffee maker was born. Now, they sell more filters than they do coffee pots. I essence, they created a market for their filters with the coffee pot design. So, what do coffee pots and filters have to do with batteries?

My question is, are flashlights (and some cameras and radios as well) a product of this same type marketing scheme, designed to sell batteries, or are batteries designed to sell flashlights? What do you think? :naughty:

 

[Kestrel]

It seems to me that most non-AA or non-AAA flashlights these days are made to fit laptop batteries - the mightly 18650, also the 17500 was a laptop cell.

I'm guessing also the 18500 and 17670 as well, any other cell sizes that folks know have came from laptop battery packs?

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

In my opinion, digital cameras and laptops were designed to sell batteries. These power hungry devices for the most part took AAs (NiMH for digital cameras) and 18650s (lithium ion for laptops). Companies selling rechargeable batteries put more R&D money into maximizing the energy density in these sizes (AA and 18650). When flashlight makers created their products, they made most of their products to work mainly with these two sizes, taking advantage of the battery makers' work to make lights with the most power packed into the smallest size. When people wanted more power in a smaller size than was possible with current battery technology, battery manufacturers turned to using the highest efficiency l.e.d. and circuits to complement the high capacity batteries. So to answer your question: a little bit of both and at the same time, neither one.

 

[Chrontius]

Hooked on Fenix got it mostly right, but two more things to consider.

1. Surefire makes their batteries and sells them mostly at-cost in order to make their lights more attractive.
2. Energizer and other battery companies sell cheap plastic incans that run down alkalines depressingly fast.

For all companies that don't make both flashlight and battery, I believe Fenix is entirely correct.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

The egg came before the chicken....lovecpf

 

[Swedpat]

Good question!

I think the flashlights are made for the existing batteries, not the opposite. Or is there any battery which has been produced for flashlights? I don't think so. Also I think that flashlights is just a small part of the products who use the common batteries, the main number of batteries are used for other things than flashlights.

Regards, Patric

 

[balou]

Or is there any battery which has been produced for flashlights?

I believe the 6v lantern battery was made specifically for ...lanterns
Also... wasn't the D battery made for the first flashlights? (named that way because the carbon-zinc batteries and inefficient bulbs could only provide small flashes of light..). Big enough to hold some charge, small enough to still fit into a hand

edit: I believe flashlights were the main usage of small batteries (what else could you power with such small batteries?). In fact, the only battery I know of which was specifically NOT made to power a flashlight is the 9v/PP3/transistor battery (called such because it's first use was in portable transistor radios)

 

[balou]

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-b02-batt-nonr.htm

C and D batteries were specifically made for flashlights

 

[computernut]

Interesting read, thanks!

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-b02-batt-nonr.htm

C and D batteries were specifically made for flashlights

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...My question is, are flashlights (and some cameras and radios as well) a product of this same type marketing scheme, designed to sell batteries, or are batteries designed to sell flashlights? What do you think? :naughty:

There are no simple answers to that one, IMO. Some batteries and some lights may be found to fit either side of the argument, and probably some that fit neither side may be found as well.

 

[Mark620]

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-b02-batt-nonr.htm

They left out Nuclear Isotope batteries -

 

[leukos]

There are no simple answers to that one, IMO. Some batteries and some lights may be found to fit either side of the argument, and probably some that fit neither side may be found as well.

+1
Surefire is probably in a large part responsible for making CR123a sized batteries popular for flashlights, and they have sold a lot of batteries since they started, but not at very high profit margins, so I doubt that was their motivation. But this battery has found its way into many more electronics since SF started using it years ago. Now you can find these batteries everywhere.

Several lights have proprietary batteries (such as the Strion), but they have not necessarily become convenient store items just yet.

The coin cell light is something that was built around an existing battery, perhaps as one example.

Tritium lights have no battery, so I suppose they fit in neither category as Sub_Umbra suggested.

 

[Swedpat]

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-b02-batt-nonr.htm

C and D batteries were specifically made for flashlights

Thanks for that interesting information!

Regards, Patric

 

[Sub_Umbra]

A Tale of Two Lights:

In New Orleans after Katrina the Red Cross and other organizations distributed all manner of things some of which were very useful -- and some not so much. At least one entity was giving away 'armored' 4AA Energizer lights that could produce light from either a 5mm LED OR a skinny fluorescent tube. I can't find a model number but it was easy on cells and I still have one that I loan out to neighbors after storms.

At the same time that the light described above was being distributed to storm survivors someone was also giving away Energizer 'Quick Switch' lights in the same area. For those not familiar with it, it will run on two AAs, two Cs or two Ds. At first thought this would seem to be a nearly perfect emergency light except for one thing -- it uses a P2 incan bulb. I have been thinking about this light since the first time I saw this thread. It is not only designed to sell batteries but to actually use up all of your batteries in whatever size you happen to have left! Talk about a light made to sell batteries! "One light to drain them all..."

I've dropped MJLEDs into five of those lights for different people to make real storm lights out of them.

 

[mon90ey]

OK, so based on what I'm seeing presented so far, would it be correct to say that rather than create their own batteries (like some type of gel cell or Nimh chemistry), laptop manufacturers, camera makers, and flashlight manufacturers in particular for the most part used what was already there (14500's, 18650's, cr123's, etc.) and packaged it so that it would fit their applications, or designed their products to fit the energy source?

I guess my question at this point would be how likely would it be that somebody at Eveready or Duracell would sit around one day and say, "I just had a brilliant idea for a battery. It will be bigger around than a AA battery, not quite half as tall, with a higher density, using lithium ion chemistry delivering twice the voltage of a traditional AA. What will it work in? Nothing right now, but, but we'll come up with something!"

Or, maybe it went something like this: "I have come up with this really neat little flashlight that could be blindingly bright with a bulb that would last for ages but I don't have a battery to fit it that it will run on." What can I use to power it? Nothing right now, but, we'll come up with something!"

In my mind, none of these scenarios seems to fit. What am I missing?

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...I guess my question at this point would be how likely would it be that somebody at Eveready or Duracell would sit around one day and say, "I just had a brilliant idea for a battery. It will be bigger around than a AA battery, not quite half as tall, with a higher density, using lithium ion chemistry delivering twice the voltage of a traditional AA. What will it work in?...

...What am I missing?

Emphasis mine.

Join the club.

I'm not big on theory but I think that lithium ion cells hold a roughly equivalent amount of energy as NiMH cells of equal volume. They do weigh less (for equal volume) than NiMH but IIRC there is very little difference in total energy capacity though there may be a difference in charge density by weight for cells of equal volume.

If that's the case it would seem that the new cell might have a hard time outperforming stock AA cells.

Lithium ion cells also have a much shorter service life. Their capacity starts falling away from the moment they are assembled whether they are in use or just sitting on a shelf. It becomes noticeable after 2-3 years.

 

[berry580]

flashlights are made for batteries.

if you think about it, flashlights makes up an extremely small portion of the market, and making batteries just for flashlights is simply not economical.
I know we're flashaholics, but we also are the minority (as far as my understanding goes).

 

[mon90ey]

flashlights are made for batteries................

At the beginning of this thread, I was inclined to agreer with you, but, after reading this article

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/a...-batt-nonr.htm

I'm not so sure. It would seem to indicate just the opposite.

 

[balou]

I guess my question at this point would be how likely would it be that somebody at Eveready or Duracell would sit around one day and say, "I just had a brilliant idea for a battery. It will be bigger around than a AA battery, not quite half as tall, with a higher density, using lithium ion chemistry delivering twice the voltage of a traditional AA. What will it work in? Nothing right now, but, but we'll come up with something!"

Energizer to Unveil a New Zinc Air Battery Form at CES
Energizer(R) will introduce Zinc Air Prismatic as an exciting power solution for smaller and thinner electronics
ST. LOUIS, Dec. 8 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- At this year's Consumer Electronics Show, Energizer will be unveiling a new battery to power future devices. The Energizer Zinc Air Prismatic battery will offer OEMs greater design flexibility, while providing greater run times and enabling smaller devices.
Zinc Air Prismatic batteries will offer high energy density as well as a thin form factor. Product innovations to be unveiled to OEMs at CES have resulted in the highest energy density of any consumer portable power solution (either disposable or rechargeable) with up to three times (3X) more runtime compared to similarly sized alkaline or lithium ion batteries.
Energizer will be showcasing the new and innovative battery to OEM designers who are raising the bar for smaller, lighter and thinner devices. The new form is the result of several years of work with OEMs to refine this battery technology for use in a variety of portable consumer electronic devices.
Media and OEM designers interested in learning more about Energizer Zinc Air Prismatic at CES should call Stevie Lewis at 314-852-3293 to schedule a briefing in the Energizer meeting room in the North Hall of the Convention Center.

I got nothing more to add...

 

[mwaldron]

I'm pretty sure the first flashlights from EverReady were given away as promotional items to increase public consume C/D size batteries.

[citation needed] I tried to find a reference to this but came up blank, maybe it's an urban legend?