Are there any D-Mag (incan) mods that can run non-rechargable batteries?

[DuckhunterInTN]

I am wanting to build a modified mag for someone. I don't think they would want to fool with chargers and rechargable batteries and all of that. I think they would just want to be able to buy the batteries, drop them in, and go.

Are there any mods out there where you can substantially upgrade the brightness of a D-cell Mag (preferably a 4-d mag, but any is fine) and still be able to run non-rechargeable batteries (preferably alkalines)? I have seen all of the LED drop-ins but am really looking for an incan mod.

I am hoping to get 250+ lumens. This person already had the Terralux LED drop-in rated at 140 lumens, and I was hoping for something substantially brighter than that. But if you know of an easy mod that doesn't quite reach this output, please post it anyways!

 

[65535]

I personally wouldn't recommend it, the cost of cells will get high fast, and alkalines just can't handle high loads well. You should really consider rechargeable, and LED's are the best way to get good runtime, 4 Cree LED's behind a Quad optic would be perfect I think, nearly 800 lumens at only 12 watts of power.

 

[DuckhunterInTN]

I personally wouldn't recommend it, the cost of cells will get high fast, and alkalines just can't handle high loads well. You should really consider rechargeable, and LED's are the best way to get good runtime, 4 Cree LED's behind a Quad optic would be perfect I think, nearly 800 lumens at only 12 watts of power.

As little as this person would actually use it, the cost of cells would not really be an issue.

So is it potential dangerous to run alkalines when modded?

I knew they didn't perform very well in, for instance, a ROP, but I'm not really looking for anything like that. I am looking for a mod in between a ROP and a factory Mag that I can run non-rechargeables. Is there such an animal?

 

[LumenHound]

If your willing to consider using primary lithium CR123A cells you would have more options.

This thread is mostly about using 3 CR123A cells inside a 2C Mag but there is also some good info on other setups like using 4 CR123A cells in a 2D Mag. Plenty of before and after beamshots also.

Something else to keep in mind is the thermal limit of the stock plastic reflector. It won't take the heat of bulbs above 10 watts for extended runs.

Are you willing to consider using Energizer L92 lithium AA batteries in a 3 AA to 1 D cell adapter? If so, you could use higher voltage bulbs.

If your convinced that D sized alkalines are the best way to go for this person then have a look at the 600 lumen Elektrolumens Monster Throw III drop-in for 3D sized Mags. It's a jaw dropper.

 

[kurni]

So is it potential dangerous to run alkalines when modded?

It's not the potential danger; it's the characteristic of the alks that has less capacity if drawn at higher current. According to this datasheet Energizer D alks have 20,000mAh if drawn at 25mA; but the exact cell only has less than 12,000mAh if drawn at 500mA.

So to get higher lumens from alks, you need to draw more current, which means slashing the capacity of the alks. This does not happen with NiMH or LiIon. Usually you want to drive LEDs at 1000mA to get a reasonable output. Assuming you want 4D (6V), I recommend driving only 1 LED because assuming the LED will need 3V (usually between 3.0V to 3.6V, but we just use 3.0 for easy calculation), you'll draw 500mA from the alks. The logic is that because you halve the voltage (6V -> 3V), you can get double the current (500mA -> 1000mA). 500mA is probably the most current you should draw from D cells.

May I recommend Malkoff drop-in; it's the elite drop-in: up to 240lumens at 1000mA with a 3-cell Maglite. I think I read somewhere that it would be 1100mA if you use 4 cells, but can't be sure. I must say that the drop-in is expensive ($75) but it's worth every penny. You have to be quick tho, because Gene Malkoff is always out of stock; it's a well sought-after drop-in.

I hope that helps

 

[TexLite]

If it was me I would build up the 4 cell host.Using this driver (http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3257)

which outputs 1200ma,with a Seoul USVOH or USWO the

emitter output would be around 275 lumens.With a UCL lens the output

should be at or around your target.I measured a host I have and at 1.2a a

USWOH from Fred had a 3.68vf.So,3.7vf*1.2a/80%driver eff. equals

5.55watts.Battery draw at 6volts would be .925ma.The bonus would be

the three levels,you could turn it down for longer runtimes.Even at 4.8

volts which would be dead for the alks,the amp draw would be 1.15a,right

at the max recommended discharge for alkalines.

Emitter $10.00
Heatsink $13.00
Driver $4.99
Lens $6.25

Total $34.24 not including shipping

 

[Drewfus2101]

An ROP low bulb only pulls 1.7 amps at that voltage (6V). That is the voltage it is rated at, even though its it often overdriven to 8.5V. I think 4D batteries could put up with that. And it wouldn't get hot enough to melt the reflector/lens/bulb socket. Luxluthor tested this bulb and *claims* 290 bulb lumens at 6V. In my experience, a UCL lens lets 10% to 30% more light through. Also, pulling 1.7 amps, with 4D size batteries, you would get 10 to 12 hours runtime.

 

[kurni]

Also, pulling 1.7 amps, with 4D size batteries, you would get 10 to 12 hours runtime.

That is incorrect if you're talking about alks. 10 to 12 hours @ 1.7A means 17Ah to 20Ah; which is the right capacity if drawn at very small current e.g. 25mA (see Energizer datasheet).

Who knows what the capacity would be if drawn at 1.7A as the datasheet only specify 0.5A discharge (12Ah). Just by guessing the gradient of the Ah reduction it might only be 6Ah (3 to 4 hours); might be less might be more as I cannot predict the chemistry under the load that is not recommended by the datasheet (greater than 0.5A).

 

[Drewfus2101]

I have seen my same math applied to Lithium Ion batteries countless times. Does it only apply to them? Are alkalines different? Is that why they don't advertise mAh ratings? Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[kurni]

I have seen my same math applied to Lithium Ion batteries countless times. Does it only apply to them? Are alkalines different? Is that why they don't advertise mAh ratings? Thanks for the clarifications.

I kept on referring to the datasheet that is specific to alkaline, which is widely available in D size. I do not know if such characteristic applies to other chemistry. I heard a few times from CPF that Lithium, NiMH & LiIon don't inherit such characteristic but I do not have any hard data.

BTW I don't know if Lithium comes in D size; I have never seen it.

From observation, alkalines die too quickly when used with digital camera because digicam draw high current, hence the capacity is reduced significantly. Presumably that's why older cameras use Lithium cells, and newer digicams use NiMH or LiIon.

Anyway, going back to the topic; if you want to stick with D cells, which usually are alkaline, I still think buck circuit is the most suitable. I mentioned Malkoff in my previous post; it's expensive. A cheaper alternative would be building your own using H22A heatsink, BuckPuck 1A & a Q5 or R2. I'm not sure how much cheaper though after taking into account the delivery costs.

 

[nitesky]

250 lumens seems a lot for alkalines(yes/no?). Otherwise, there is the option of overdriving xenon lamps a bit using 6 cells for a 5 cell lamp (6V). I have loaded a couple of lights this way using lamps for rechargeable lights (Sears @.97 amps) and AA's or C's, using both rechargeables and alkalines. No data on the run time or lamp life with either though.

 

[curlyfry562]

The malfoffs do http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

 

[Drewfus2101]

If you want to just swap out the bulb, take a look at this thread I made:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=184874

With a 4D (6V), the best bet (besides ROP) would be the Radioshack HPR50 Halogen 4 Cell.

According to my math, using the info I found on the ROP low, and LuxLuthor's estimates for Lumens, that Radioshack bulb, at 6V will pull only 0.89 amps and put out around 250 lumens.

Alkaline batteries can withstand a 0.89 amp pull, as they are regularly used to drive LEDs at over 1 amp. Plus, your not even pushing this bulb, so it should last forever. It won't be hot enough to melt anything. Nothing else is required. And I think the bulb was less than $5 (definetely was not much because I tested it till failure).

Battery life would be outstanding pulling less than an amp from D size batteries.

You could add a UCL lens to help things out. Maybe a stippled reflector for a better beam pattern.