Are these batteries protected or not.

[chip100t]

I recently added some 14500 batteries to my last order from sofirn despite not actually owning a torch that used them.

so as you do I have now just ordered a torch that uses them (lumentop FWAA). But have since read that you must use unprotected batteries with said torch. So now fear the batteries I have will be no use and am now concerned that if I did buy unprotected batteries it will result in the burning down of my house.

so
1 are these batteries protected?

4pcs 14500 Batteries 900mAh

Notice:Some batteries will have a low capacity when they are used for the first time after receiving them. For this situation, please charge the battery 3-4 times and then re-test the battery capacity.Item DescriptionCell Type: Li-ionBattery type : 14500Minimum Capacity : 700 mAhVoltage...

www.sofirnlight.com

and
2 is using unprotected cells as risky as the name "unprotected" suggests?

thanks in advance.

 

[Olumin]

Unprotected

Just take care to not fully drain them to prevent risk of over-discharge.

 

[chip100t]

Unprotected

Just take care to not fully drain them to prevent risk of over-discharge.

Thank you, that's great, In that it means I can use them. Do I need to take any other precautions when using them or charging them. I have a fenix ARE-A4 charger, and already charged them on arrival with no problems.

 

[Olumin]

Thank you, that's great, In that it means I can use them. Do I need to take any other precautions when using them or charging them. I have a fenix ARE-4 charger, and already charged them on arrival with no problems.

When you notice your light dimming, remove batteries and charge. Check voltage before and after charging. I usually only use protected cells whenever possible, so I dont have that much experience with them myself. Dont charge them while absent. I would not recommend using any unprotected cells in series.

 

[idleprocess]

With a rated capacity of 900mAh and a maximum discharge of 1C (900mA) I'm not sure these cells will satisfy in the FWAA.

A quick search suggests that 3A - or even 10A - cells are recommended. 3A would be a nominal 10.8W or approximately 111 lm/W net efficiency for its peak claimed 12000 lumens on turbo which is plausible, thus something like the Vapcell INR14500 L10 (1050mAH / 3A peak discharge) ought suffice.

 

[chip100t]

Thanks for your help, I think my charger has overcharging protection. I will contact fenix to be sure.
And the torch has a low voltage warning too.

 

[chip100t]

With a rated capacity of 900mAh and a maximum discharge of 1C (900mA) I'm not sure these cells will satisfy in the FWAA.

A quick search suggests that 3A - or even 10A - cells are recommended. 3A would be a nominal 10.8W or approximately 111 lm/W net efficiency for its peak claimed 12000 lumens on turbo which is plausible, thus something like the Vapcell INR14500 L10 (1050mAH / 3A peak discharge) ought suffice.

Sorry I have only just seen your post. This is all Greek to me as I know nothing about batteries. I will check out your recommendation. Thank you.

 

[idleprocess]

Sorry I have only just seen your post. This is all Greek to me as I know nothing about batteries. I will check out your recommendation. Thank you.

I'll try to deliver a quick primer.

Batteries of the same specific chemistry can be compared using capacity (mAH / AH) and discharge rates (often expressed as C or mA / A). Most li-ion cells register 4.2V fully charged. 3.0V empty and have a 3.6V or 3.7V nominal voltage under load.

The cells you linked expressed discharge in terms of the C rate, which is the capacity in Ah (or mAH) expressed as current or the constant amps the cell can produce if discharged from 100% to 0% in one hour. Thus 1C discharge for a 900mAH cell is 900mA, 0.5C would be 450mA, 2C would be 1.8A. There are complications to this: generally the higher the current the lower the net capacity thus discharging at 2C might not realize 1.8A for a full 30 minutes; conversely a 0.5C discharge might realize 450mA for longer than 2 hours.

Ohm's Law being V (Voltage) = I (current in Amps) • R (resistance in Ohms) can be expanded to P (Power in Watts) = V (Voltage) • I (current in Amps). Assuming a nominal cell voltage of 3.6V, a 3A-capable cell can produce 3.6V • 3A = 10.8W. Taking the FWAA's claimed peak claimed 1200 lumens / 10.8W = 111.111 lumens / watt (a reasonable value for modern LEDs) ... thus a 3A-capable cell is probably sufficient.

Now, the 900mAH / 900mA cells you linked should be able to run the FWAA, but they're not going to drive it to peak brightness since the available power is significantly less: 0.9A • 3.6 = 3.24W or 30% of the power thus your FWAA is apt to produce about 360 lumens using simple back-of-the-napkin math.

 

[chip100t]

I'll try to deliver a quick primer.

Batteries of the same specific chemistry can be compared using capacity (mAH / AH) and discharge rates (often expressed as C or mA / A). Most li-ion cells register 4.2V fully charged. 3.0V empty and have a 3.6V or 3.7V nominal voltage under load.

The cells you linked expressed discharge in terms of the C rate, which is the capacity in Ah (or mAH) expressed as current or the constant amps the cell can produce if discharged from 100% to 0% in one hour. Thus 1C discharge for a 900mAH cell is 900mA, 0.5C would be 450mA, 2C would be 1.8A. There are complications to this: generally the higher the current the lower the net capacity thus discharging at 2C might not realize 1.8A for a full 30 minutes; conversely a 0.5C discharge might realize 450mA for longer than 2 hours.

Ohm's Law being V (Voltage) = I (current in Amps) • R (resistance in Ohms) can be expanded to P (Power in Watts) = V (Voltage) • I (current in Amps). Assuming a nominal cell voltage of 3.6V, a 3A-capable cell can produce 3.6V • 3A = 10.8W. Taking the FWAA's claimed peak claimed 1200 lumens / 10.8W = 111.111 lumens / watt (a reasonable value for modern LEDs) ... thus a 3A-capable cell is probably sufficient.

Now, the 900mAH / 900mA cells you linked should be able to run the FWAA, but they're not going to drive it to peak brightness since the available power is significantly less: 0.9A • 3.6 = 3.24W or 30% of the power thus your FWAA is apt to produce about 360 lumens using simple back-of-the-napkin math.

Thanks, I have ordered some 10 amp vapecells from a reputable seller.

 

[n2mb_racing]

With a rated capacity of 900mAh and a maximum discharge of 1C (900mA) I'm not sure these cells will satisfy in the FWAA.

A quick search suggests that 3A - or even 10A - cells are recommended. 3A would be a nominal 10.8W or approximately 111 lm/W net efficiency for its peak claimed 12000 lumens on turbo which is plausible, thus something like the Vapcell INR14500 L10 (1050mAH / 3A peak discharge) ought suffice.

Vapcell INR14500 L10 batteries are great. Second that. I'm still getting 1064 mAh from mine, with over a year of use.

They are unprotected, but I assume any good flashlight that supports 14500 li-ion batteries will have a low voltage cutoff for safety.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Also, that Lumintop FWAA flashlight is hilarious. Why do you need 1400 lumens from a 14500 flashlight? I use a Zebralight H52, which turbos at 500 lumens for a minute, then runs 300 lumens for max 1 hour on those L10 batteries. I like the 14500 headlamp for running because it is so light. Though, my 18650 headlamp (Fenix HM65R-T) is also "ok" for running, though it's a bit annoyingly heavy.

 

[turbodog]

...
And the torch has a low voltage warning too.

Concerning the low voltage thing.

A single cell light is easy to determine battery level... just measure the voltage in the light as part of your circuitry.

A multi-cell light (this only works for 2 cells) is impossible to tell individual voltages for each cell. On the surface this sounds like multi-cell li-ion lights are "bad news".

However, like CPF member Katherine Alicia (sp?) said... you can take the combined voltage, so long as it's above a certain number, and be certain that both cells are above a critical value. You don't know the specific number, but so long as it's above the cutoff you are fine.

So, use your multi-cell light in good faith but keep an eye on the cells regardless. Lithium-based cells are not to be toyed with.

 

[turbodog]

...I assume any good flashlight that supports 14500 li-ion batteries will have a low voltage cutoff for safety.

I've got some 18650 zebralights that cutoff when low... but they continue (parasitic load maybe???) to drain the cell. I've pulled cells out that measure below 2 volts.

 

[idleprocess]

Also, that Lumintop FWAA flashlight is hilarious. Why do you need 1400 lumens from a 14500 flashlight?

Why does anyone need a D4 with 4300 OTF lumens? Or one of the bug-eyed Acebeam lights that can push something close to 100,000 lumens? They don't. But the products exist and are capable of these things, usually for brief periods, but otherwise spend the bulk of their working lives putting out a more sustainable level of output.