Attention: Gransee, Craig, Brock, and Chris.

[JonSidneyB]

I'll make a deal with you. I have ordered 12 SureFire 123 batteries and 12 Duracell Ultra Batteries. The people at LPS said that they did a test comparing SF 123's and DU 123's. They said that they noticed two things. The Duracells produced light a bit longer. The SureFires Sustained its brightness for a longer period of time before starting to dim. The Duracells had a larger part of its runtime in a dimmed state. This left the SureFire with an advantage in running more of its time in a bright state. Was also told that during most of both battery type bright stage of life, the SureFire was the Brighter of the two. I was told that the SureFire 123's are a differnt formula and is not available anyplace else but SureFire. Not sure but it may turn out that the Duracells are better for the Arc than the SureFires, then again, Surefires may be better in both.

Here is what I am willing to do. If when testing the Arc-Ls, if you want to test the SureFires against Duracell Ultras in the Arc-Ls, I would be willing to provide them. (I understand that the light testers do not always have the funds to keep themselves in batteries). I will provide these if you post the results for all to see. If you would like the SureFire Batteries, I will provide two to each of you along with two brand new Duracell Ultras as well. I was told that the 12 SureFire Batteries and the 12 Duracell batteries that I ordered would arrive in 4-5 days. I can then send them to you if you like. If two of the testers are willing to also test the new SureFires in a 6 volt SureFire light and post the results, I am willing to provide these as well. I am not trying to advertise of sell batteries for anyone. I just want to know the results of several objective tests and get opinions that I and the rest of the forum can use on results of the Arc-Ls using two of what may be the best of the 123's available as well as learn how they perform in 6volt SureFires.

If you want the batteries, let me know how to get them to you and I will send them in 5 days.

 

[JonSidneyB]

Just had a thought about the offer I made to the Four of you. I would like to see any and all of you compare the ARC-LS with Duracell Ultras and SureFire batteries in the 123 powerpack if you are willing. It would be nice if I could get two of the testers to run SureFire tests with the Duracell's and the Surefire batteries. It might be nice if one of the testers could run the test in a Surefire 6 volt and the other in an E1. A possibliliy for the E1 test could be done with the Arc-ls comparing usability of the lights and showing at one point where the Arc-ls catches the E1 in brightness and what state the Arc-LS is in when the E1 is no longer putting out usable light. A beam quality test and usability test would be great. Do I have any takers??? This is about a $90 investment for me if all of you take the deal but it is well worth it to me to get an objective test. Thanks guys, let me know.

 

[JonSidneyB]

Sorry, I forgot something. You can contact me on this thread if you like or if you would rather send the message privately. You can reach me at [email protected]

 

[JonSidneyB]

Anyone is welcome to comment on this thread but the offer is only open the Gransee and the 3 testers since they have well know websites and have provided me a wealth of information.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JonSidneyB, thanks for making this deal available to the "testers" so that we can all benefit from the results. I'm very interested in the outcome, preparing to buy my third set of Duracells to feed my E2.

Joe

 

[Gransee]

Thanks Jon for your offer! I am interested in the results. I am cautious though that this might be become more of a battery test than an Arc-LS test at this point in time.

Also, the prototypes have handmade circuits and may not operate exactly like the production units.

Since these batteries represent a considerable and generous investment from you, I would recomend that they test the Arc-LS on the merits of being a flashlight at this point and then test the batteries as being a good way to feed your LS at a later point.

Btw, 2 prototypes have been sent out so far. One each for Craig and Brock. Chris's is going to be delayed for improvements. Btw, these prototypes are even more unfinished than the Arc-AAA prototypes that we sent out when they where first introduced.

Peter Gransee

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:

Here is what I am willing to do. If when testing the Arc-Ls, if you want to test the SureFires against Duracell Ultras in the Arc-Ls, I would be willing to provide them. (I understand that the light testers do not always have the funds to keep themselves in batteries). I will provide these if you post the results for all to see<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your generous & kind offer.
As things stand, I don't have a single 123 battery here, as none of the lights I now have use them.

What I'll do for the purposes of this test is to do what I did with the Arc AAA, and that is sit at my computer staring at a clock and a meter (the solar cell light measurement thing) and post the results every 15 or 30 minutes, so that a light output curve can be interpolated for each brand of battery. Doing this should show if one stays brighter longer or if one brand tanks quickly but gives lower levels of usable light longer.

The resulting brightness numbers will be somewhat arbitrary (they are not to be used to gauge how bright the LS is, because the solar cell may be vignetting part of the beam), but they will be consistent & quite usable for a battery life test as long as I don't switch flashlights, move the flashlight during the test, or swap out batteries in the middle of the test.

I suspect Brock and Chris will devise & use a similar method with their light meters.

When the production model comes out, I'll use a more appropriate meter to measure its actual brightness at night.
That meter won't work for the battery curve test because of ambient light pollution that would vary over the enire test period and spoil the test results.

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
Thanks Jon for your offer! I am interested in the results. I am cautious though that this might be become more of a battery test than an Arc-LS test at this point in time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's the whole aim of this particular test - to see if Surefire 123s and Duracell 123s have different discharge curves.

 

[Chris M.]

Thanks for the offer, certainly I`ll be happy to help out and do some life-testing of those batteries, both in the LS and a 2-cell SF. I have an E2 but somewhere I read that they don`t like being left burning for an hour (it gets quite hot after just 5 mins) so I don`t want to risk melting its lens or screwing up another lamp, but I`m looking at something like a 6P soon (usually one on Ebay at a bargain price). I have a 9Z but 3 of each battery is pushing it a little, right?
Too bad I`ll have to wait even longer for my LS proto- mr G, what improvements are being made to mine compared to the other 2, please?
Anyway, when I have the lights to do it all with here, count me in! Probably Craig and Brock will have done their tests (and I`ll have graphed and posted them) before I get to do mine, but the more independant tests there are, means a more fair overall result, right? I may throw in the results from the Panasonic 123s I usually use, and see if the savings (they are about GB£1(US$1.50)/cell) are really worth it.

I`ll probably do mine like this. Clamp the LS head (or SF body) firm so it won`t move, but I can remove the batteries or turn it on/off without it moving. Microphone stands might work though mine are all wobbly so maybe not. The light meter`s sensor will be fixed firm too and set at exactly 1 foot from the light to give readings in candelas. I`ll fix it all together so that when changing batteries over, the lights will not move relative to the sensor so the readings will be accurate as possible- slight movements will affect the results, and it`d be nice to see if either brand of battery make for a brighter initial light than the other- and by how much. Testing will occur after dark with all the other monitors and small lighted thingys I have turned off and the PC screen brightness turned down so it`s not going to affect the result. My meter only reads down to 100mcd anyway (I could never afford a decent one like Craig`s) but to keep it fair, it should be as dark as it can get in here. I`ll note a reading every 15 minutes- or to another preferred time interval previously agreed between the 4 of us testing. Makes collimating all the results into one set of graphs much easier.

I`m kind of looking forward to this now...

 

[Brock]

Hey JonSidneyB I have a couple of the new Surefire batteries. I would also think it is just a matter of comparing all the current 123 to each other. My setup for testing/measuring wouldn't be the best for this.

I would say the Surefires are a bit brighter then teh Duracell Ultra's and so far maintain a higher voltage. But it would be great for someone to do a real test on them.

 

[JonSidneyB]

I am getting some bubble wrap envelops and will have them preaddresed. When the batteries arrive I will send them out. No sence in you guys paying for batteries in a test that I requested. I am assuming that your initial review of the Arc-Ls will be concluded then so this should not interfere with it but might be a good follow up for what batteries work best in it. Like I said, I will mail them when I get them.

 

[lightlover]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
Anyone is welcome to comment on this thread but the offer is only open the Gransee and the 3 testers since they have well know websites and have provided me a wealth of information.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well,

JSB, my comment is that it is a generous and thoughtful gesture.

Thank you, JonSidneyB

I've already ordered some SF123's on trust that they will perform well.
Since I got my E2, I now really understand why people (Al, Brock, etc) talk so much about the joy of the first 10 minutes or so of the battery life.

To me, after the first 10 minutes or so, the hotspot begins to look a little less "intense", but without a real diminut -ummm, *lessening* of the light given out. It just seems to "mellow out" a bit, and the white white gives way to a slightly cream/grey white. The beam's colour change from one white to another is very subtle.

All in all, I would prefer more "intensity" time rather than more run-time, but, well, an increase in both would be good.
Or a balanced combination of the two.
Or something.

Looking forward to learning the results.

lightlover

 

[JonSidneyB]

Hello testers,
It is Saturday and I am going to quickly try and find a postoffice window that is open today so I can send out some batteries. My guess is that they probably will end up leaving here on Monday.

I understand that Craig has not been able to do testing with 123's due to lack of batteries. Hopefully these will arrive in time to serve a useful purpose.

Again hopefully 123's will arrive to Chris in time to do him some good and save him some money. I'm a little more hopeful since I understand that he has not received an Arc-LS yet.

Brock has already reached in his pocket and tested some 123's and has provided us a valuable service. I'm going to send him some batteries anyway to save him the expense of replacing what he has used up.

I am doing this because the testers have provided me a valuable service by providing much appreciated information and a vehical to learn more about what is available with out me putting up money to purchase products that I might soon retire as unsuitable while possibly missing the perfect product for my needs. I have also found this site a place to put forth my opinions in the hope that others might like them as well giving me the possibility of one day, a product at least partially based on my opinions might one day exist.

Now for the bad news. I went to WalMart this morning and purchased six twin packs of 123's. three are Duracell Ultras and three are Energizers. I will keep my work and later provide SureFire 123's when I can. You might be wondering what happened to the SureFires. I placed an order with LaggerPro before making the 123 offer. I was told that the batteries would arrive in 5days. This is when I made the offer. It had been 7 days do a called LaggerPro to inquire about my order. I was told that the SureFire batteries were back ordered so they held up the rest of my order. I know feel that they made me into a liar. I was a little dissapointed that they did not contact me to let me know that the order was being held up and I was not happy that they took my order over the phone and gave me a delivery date that they could not meet. I feel bad about this and feel that I have let people down. I will try and make this up to all. Thank you testers for providing your sites for the rest of us to learn from.