BAN HID headlights, FINE users, JAIL converters!

[nutter]

I appreciate that HID lights may be quite new where you are, and, as such, an object of your attention, but try to make an effort not to look at them. That way, you will save your night vision. When I say don't look at them, I mean keep them in your peripheral vision, and look straight ahead.

Also, be glad that you don't drive in Africa - it can get a little scary driving there - the roads are very bad, and people drive on them, fast, at night, with no headlights at all.

 

[idleprocess]

I appreciate that HID lights may be quite new where you are, and, as such, an object of your attention, but try to make an effort not to look at them. That way, you will save your night vision. When I say don't look at them, I mean keep them in your peripheral vision, and look straight ahead.

I tend to agree with you. I've never understood how people hate HIDs with a passion greater than their reaction to people driving with high beams on on or poorly-adjusted low beams. I've always tried to direct my gaze towards the striping on the opposite edge of the road on 2-lane roads whenever any vehicle is coming towards me at night. I can still keep my eyes on the road, but getting the image of the headlights out of my direct vision helps to preserve my night vision. I've driven on enough country roads and encountered yahoos driving the opposite direction with impressive racks of offroad lights pointing my direction to not be phased by it anymore.

If really bright headlights/glare alone are enough to compromise your ability to drive, it does suggest a few questions that perhaps you should be asking yourself.

 

[MichaelW]

It is very easy to hate HID implementations in the US.
Blame the SAE headlight design and blame the inept government for not requiring HIDs to have dynamic auto leveling projectors with a cleaning system.
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/transportation/pdf/NITSA/holtNHTSAworkshop.pdf

 

[Stereodude]

The lenses polish out, but only with a spray I once encountered at a gas station, and can't find.

This stuff works great on plastic lenses. :thumbsup:

 

[Nubo]

I tend to agree with you. I've never understood how people hate HIDs with a passion greater than their reaction to people driving with high beams on on or poorly-adjusted low beams. I've always tried to direct my gaze towards the striping on the opposite edge of the road on 2-lane roads whenever any vehicle is coming towards me at night. I can still keep my eyes on the road, but getting the image of the headlights out of my direct vision helps to preserve my night vision. I've driven on enough country roads and encountered yahoos driving the opposite direction with impressive racks of offroad lights pointing my direction to not be phased by it anymore.

If really bright headlights/glare alone are enough to compromise your ability to drive, it does suggest a few questions that perhaps you should be asking yourself.

I think most people know better than to stare into oncoming headlights; that's not the issue. Some people are more susceptible to the dazzle aspect of HID emitters than others. Older people (though not exclusively) tend to have more problems with it. Since the people who install Godawful HID re-fits tend to be younger you can see there's some inevitable friction where neither side understands the other's "problem".

Those who go in for purple headlights tend to be younger too. They have a superabundance of night vision and probably see better than me despite their lumens handicap. When I was young (and foolish.... and poor....) I used to ride about 20 miles a night on my bicycle down roads with nothing but starlight.

Not to excuse any of this foolishness, but it helps to understand where people are coming from.

 

[gsxrac]

Ok I have HID's in my 4 wheeler and whoever said that putting HID's into a halogen assembly doesnt do anything do a little better research next time 😉
Now on the other hand I have plenty of friends that have put HID's in vehicles and im about to do the same (Im looking at the 5000-5500K range I think the ones in my sportsman are like 8000 amazing for trails and mud where all you want is a ton of light but way too blue for a vehicle driving down the road). I Currently have "Sylvania Silverstar" bulbs which are better but not great, two different sets of fog lights, and KC Daylighters on my front bar(I used to do alot of nighttime wheeling and recovery).
But IMHO instead of bashing people with HID's you need to worry about all the idiots driving down back roads at night with one headlight out and the other one is in a foggy *** lense!!!

 

[superjoe83]

Ok I have HID's in my 4 wheeler and whoever said that putting HID's into a halogen assembly doesnt do anything do a little better research next time 😉
Now on the other hand I have plenty of friends that have put HID's in vehicles and im about to do the same (Im looking at the 5000-5500K range I think the ones in my sportsman are like 8000 amazing for trails and mud where all you want is a ton of light but way too blue for a vehicle driving down the road). I Currently have "Sylvania Silverstar" bulbs which are better but not great, two different sets of fog lights, and KC Daylighters on my front bar(I used to do alot of nighttime wheeling and recovery).
But IMHO instead of bashing people with HID's you need to worry about all the idiots driving down back roads at night with one headlight out and the other one is in a foggy *** lense!!!

we all know that HID will put out more light in a halogen housing, BUT, it will also put light where you don't want it, into oncoming drivers eye's, putting a kit into your quad or any off-road only vehicle is fine, but please have some respect for other people on the road.

 

[Guy's Dropper]

Throw them in jail? No. Fine them? Yes.

 

[sadtimes]

Ok I have HID's in my 4 wheeler and whoever said that putting HID's into a halogen assembly doesnt do anything do a little better research next time 😉
Now on the other hand I have plenty of friends that have put HID's in vehicles and im about to do the same (Im looking at the 5000-5500K range I think the ones in my sportsman are like 8000 amazing for trails and mud where all you want is a ton of light but way too blue for a vehicle driving down the road). I Currently have "Sylvania Silverstar" bulbs which are better but not great, two different sets of fog lights, and KC Daylighters on my front bar(I used to do alot of nighttime wheeling and recovery).
But IMHO instead of bashing people with HID's you need to worry about all the idiots driving down back roads at night with one headlight out and the other one is in a foggy *** lense!!!

Go to hidplanet.com and do your research. It will help you, in the future, not make a fool out of yourself as you have done in this post.

 

[3000k]

I personally don't see the need for HID headlamps, Halogen with a high/low setting seem to do fine. If you live in the boonies and are worried about deer get a set of offroad lights but turn them off around other drivers. Even properly set up factory HIDs are too bright on rainy days, the light reflects off the wet shiny road. Not only old people have troubles with night vision but people with lasik or laser eye surgery often have a hard time seeing at night.

HID headlamps are not safer, they are only as safe as the driver comming towards you.

 

[Guy's Dropper]

:hahaha:

Ok I have HID's in my 4 wheeler and whoever said that putting HID's into a halogen assembly doesnt do anything do a little better research next time 😉
Now on the other hand I have plenty of friends that have put HID's in vehicles and im about to do the same (Im looking at the 5000-5500K range I think the ones in my sportsman are like 8000 amazing for trails and mud where all you want is a ton of light but way too blue for a vehicle driving down the road). I Currently have "Sylvania Silverstar" bulbs which are better but not great, two different sets of fog lights, and KC Daylighters on my front bar(I used to do alot of nighttime wheeling and recovery).
But IMHO instead of bashing people with HID's you need to worry about all the idiots driving down back roads at night with one headlight out and the other one is in a foggy *** lense!!!

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Ok I have HID's in my 4 wheeler and whoever said that putting HID's into a halogen assembly doesnt do anything do a little better research next time 😉
Now on the other hand I have plenty of friends that have put HID's in vehicles and im about to do the same (Im looking at the 5000-5500K range I think the ones in my sportsman are like 8000 amazing for trails and mud where all you want is a ton of light but way too blue for a vehicle driving down the road). I Currently have "Sylvania Silverstar" bulbs which are better but not great, two different sets of fog lights, and KC Daylighters on my front bar(I used to do alot of nighttime wheeling and recovery).
But IMHO instead of bashing people with HID's you need to worry about all the idiots driving down back roads at night with one headlight out and the other one is in a foggy *** lense!!!

Whoa there buddy, lots wrong here. Putting HID's in a halogen housing most definitely does put out more light, but you have no control of where that light goes. Lighting safety is a community effort, and everyone is another driver to someone else. You don't like being blinded any more than other people do. A lot of the HID light from that halogen headlight assembly is going right into the eyes of oncoming traffic and not helping you see in the slightest. If you're looking for "a ton of light" then 8k is far from optimum. Automotive OEM's use 4,300k because it produces the most lumens. The higher the color temp you go, the less lumens you get. Sylvania's Silverstars produce the least lumens and last the shortest amount of time while costing more than any other bulb Sylvania makes for the same application. Simple physics; adding a colored filter which removes light can not make a bulb brighter.

Look around here, you'll learn something.

:buddies:

 

[rushnrockt]

Sylvania's Silverstars produce the least lumens and last the shortest amount of time while costing more than any other bulb Sylvania makes for the same application. Simple physics; adding a colored filter which removes light can not make a bulb brighter.

There are three flavors of Silverstars and there are significant differences between their outputs, albeit at a cost of longevity.

 

[-Virgil-]

There are three flavors of Silverstars and there are significant differences between their outputs, albeit at a cost of longevity.

The statement as made was correct. Sylvania Silver Stars (North American market) are low-output/short-life bulbs, whether they're in the old "SilverStar" package or the new "SilverStar Ultra" package.

Osram Silver Stars (officially only outside North America, available from various vendors in NA) are high-output/shorter-life bulbs.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

If a retrofitted vehicle's HID headlights put the same light out as a car that comes standard with HIDs, what is the difference, other than being technically illegal? I do agree with Scheinwerfermann that this is only valid if the retrofitter is very meticulous in his/her aiming, making sure that the beams are both horizontal and aimed correctly, that no light leaks from the sides of the projector, etc.

And no using the autoleveling argument, because quite a few cars that come with HIDs from the factory don't include this feature, including the car that has what is reputed to be the most intense of the current projectors, the S2000.


Drop-in HID kits, however, are an entirely different story. Nobody likes looking in their mirrors and seeing two blobs of light that drown out everything behind you. I dislike HID kits because of the glare that is somehow thought of as amazing light output by those who own them.

 

[MichaelW]

The lack of automatic leveling is a HUGE oversight by the US government.

The people should be held to the proper standard, even if the government fails to meet objective performance requirements.
'Hey he sucks, why can't I suck too?'

HIDs shouldn't have been allowed with SAE headlights.
Only ECE with automatic leveling and cleaning and/or wiping system. (those little wipers are totally 80's retro. Didn't the early years of the S60 have them?)
Now they should be required to have dynamic auto leveling (front & rear leveling sensors) and sprayers (which work better fixed or jack-in-the-box? maybe it depends on the vehicle)

I hate it when you are turning ever so gradually to the right and the rear wheel, the one with the leveling sensor, nails a pothole and the headlights go nuts. Totally unnecessary up/down cycle.

 

[-Virgil-]

If a retrofitted vehicle's HID headlights put the same light out as a car that comes standard with HIDs, what is the difference

The devil's in the details. Removing the optics from one headlamp and installing them in another can (obviously) be done, but it is a great deal more tricky and difficult to get an acceptable result than is commonly understood. Baking the headlight assembly to open it (heat loosens the adhesive), cutting the reflector, painting/masking it to minimize stray reflections, building additional shielding for the same purpose, mounting HID projectors, aiming them with respect to whatever high beam reflector is present, and re-sealing the cut-open headlamps provide numerous opportunities to spoil one or another aspect of the headlight's function, physical durability, resistance to water/dirt ingress, vibration-proofing, etc. Silicone-based sealants produce gases that attack reflectors and fog-up
optics. The projector has to be mounted with extreme precision; if you get the center of gravity wrong it will shake-rattle-and-roll out of alignment and eventually off its mounts. The low beam projector has to be aimed precisely relative to high beam. You usually cannot get a good and durable seal after the lamp's been baked/cut open...etc. Remember, headlight legality comprises a lot more than just whether it produces the right amounts of light of the right color in the right locations.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

This is true. However, it is also true that even if your lights are perfect in all aspects, they are still illegal if you made them yourself. I am proud of my HID retrofit. I spent about a week and a half just getting the projectors rotated to be perfectly level and even aimed them a tad lower than they are supposed to be, since I don't have the know-how to make my own automatic leveling system (yet?). I used extra butyl sealant to ensure a proper seal, shielded all parts of the projector that leaked light. They don't rattle at all, and have endured everything I've thrown at them. The thing is, though, it's a heck of a lot of work to do it right. It was worth it, in my opinion, but I don't think most people understand all the work that went into these, including the law. I could show pictures and comparisons and cite all sorts of safety standards, but if it ever came down to it, they would never pass as legal. No retrofit will.

Scheinwerfermann, do you have HID lighting in your car? just curious, you know a lot about this, but I can't believe I've not seen you around hidplanet.com. great source of information, and the place prides itself in trying to convert people who want HID kits to HID retrofitters. Sometimes there's a little too much pride, but it's for a good cause. If someone is adamant in having HIDs, at least make them safer than a drop-in kit.

Oh, and btw, my setup is FX35 projectors that comprise high and low beams in one projector, so as long as I aim my low-beams correctly, my high beams are in the right spot.

 

[dimsumboy]

This is true. However, it is also true that even if your lights are perfect in all aspects, they are still illegal if you made them yourself. I am proud of my HID retrofit. I spent about a week and a half just getting the projectors rotated to be perfectly level and even aimed them a tad lower than they are supposed to be, since I don't have the know-how to make my own automatic leveling system (yet?). I used extra butyl sealant to ensure a proper seal, shielded all parts of the projector that leaked light. They don't rattle at all, and have endured everything I've thrown at them. The thing is, though, it's a heck of a lot of work to do it right. It was worth it, in my opinion, but I don't think most people understand all the work that went into these, including the law. I could show pictures and comparisons and cite all sorts of safety standards, but if it ever came down to it, they would never pass as legal. No retrofit will.

Scheinwerfermann, do you have HID lighting in your car? just curious, you know a lot about this, but I can't believe I've not seen you around hidplanet.com. great source of information, and the place prides itself in trying to convert people who want HID kits to HID retrofitters. Sometimes there's a little too much pride, but it's for a good cause. If someone is adamant in having HIDs, at least make them safer than a drop-in kit.

Oh, and btw, my setup is FX35 projectors that comprise high and low beams in one projector, so as long as I aim my low-beams correctly, my high beams are in the right spot.

I couldn't agree with you more there man, i was guilty of trying PnP Kit into my halogen and less than a month later I can't stand it anymore and shipped my headlights out for a retrofit because i know for a fact that it'll be many times brighter AND not blinding anyone instead. HIDplanet does convince pplz to use projectors over PnP kits into halogen reflector, and that's a good thing! their "parts for sale" section offers cheapest availble parts to do your own upgrades, I often see projectors, ballast, bulbs all together for $200 -$300 and thats all you need to have your own retrofit.

Now more to the main point, yes-goverment should require automakers to install hid with auto-leveling features but they won't spend that kind of money now, example; just on the news yesterday Democrats propose that it'll need another 650mil for DIGITAL TV conversion coupons, SO how much you think it's gonna need to have all vehicals on the road have hids w/auto-leveling. But I do agree on citation on drivers installing HID into reflector but not what color they use. And pplz like us who spent money and time retrofitting should not be cited because we make every effort to make it safe for us and ESP others.

If done correctly it'll aiming DOT standard. <My headlights on the retrofitter's car, since we both got the same model lol>

And It'll look OEM

 

[-Virgil-]

This is true. However, it is also true that even if your lights are perfect in all aspects, they are still illegal if you made them yourself.

Quite right.

I don't have the know-how to make my own automatic leveling system (yet?).

You could always cheat and buy the ready-made Hella retrofit auto-levelling system, then all you'd have to do is adapt its actuators to fit your headlamps.

I don't think most people understand all the work that went into these

I think you're right!

I could show pictures and comparisons and cite all sorts of safety standards, but if it ever came down to it, they would never pass as legal. No retrofit will.

Yup. That goes with the territory of most of the lighting regulations in the world. Whether we're talking about a brake light reg, a headlamp reg, a bulb reg, whatever, all of them allow some bad lamps and prohibit some good lamps. It's a matter of practicality, really -- at some point you have to pick where to draw the line in the sand, and just hope it gets the job mostly done, pretty well, most of the time. And that's just thinking about OE lighting! It gets a lot harder to regulate aftermarket lighting. Much of it is junk to one degree or another. And it's even harder still to regulate lighting modifications (homemade lights). You obviously put in the time, money, and effort to really understand the technical and legal requirements and make lamps that come as close as possible to meeting them, but I feel very confident saying 999 out of 1000 people don't. The only regulation that makes sense, given that reality, is "No homemade headlights". The few who know/care enough to make safe and effective modifications and keep a careful eye on them to make sure they remain safe and effective, probably aren't going to get caught.

Scheinwerfermann, do you have HID lighting in your car?

One of 'em is factory HID, but not my present daily driver. I don't have occasion to drive it fast or far enough at night to miss them; when your night drives rarely exceed 30 mph, you never get to use high beam and there are always bright street lights around, the advantage shrinks in a hurry.

I can't believe I've not seen you around hidplanet.com

Ohhhhh, you might've without realizing it! ;-) I have had a screen name or two on there over the years, though you're right, it's quite awhile since I ducked in. Herman & co. still running it?

the place prides itself in trying to convert people who want HID kits

Yup. I remember for awhile Rich Van Iderstine (who was in charge of FMVSS 108 for 25 years or so) was on there as "Mr. 108", and sometimes the fireworks were amusing to watch as ignorant knowitalls would try to argue with him about what the regulation says and means (that's the regulation he wrote...what a hoot!)

Oh, and btw, my setup is FX35 projectors that comprise high and low beams in one projector, so as long as I aim my low-beams correctly, my high beams are in the right spot.

Yep...that's a good way of getting around the relative-aim problem if you have the space in the housings. And if you happen to be lucky enough to be working with a headlamp from which the (halogen) projector can easily be removed out the back without having to break any seals or cut anything, and there's an HID projector from the same maker with the same mount points, that's easiest of all! Doesn't happen as often as would be nice, but it does occasionally happen.