BAN HID headlights, FINE users, JAIL converters!

Now more to the main point, yes-goverment should require automakers to install hid with auto-leveling features but they won't spend that kind of money now, example; just on the news yesterday Democrats propose that it'll need another 650mil for DIGITAL TV conversion coupons, SO how much you think it's gonna need to have all vehicals on the road have hids w/auto-leveling. But I do agree on citation on drivers installing HID into reflector but not what color they use. And pplz like us who spent money and time retrofitting should not be cited because we make every effort to make it safe for us and ESP others.

What cost?
Have a fixed cut off date, so that if you want to legally sell a vehicle with HID projector headlights, it must have dynamic auto leveling. Otherwise it can not be sold. (Jan 1 2010 is a good date)

The automakers will get around to paying for HID auto leveling right after they retrofit non-high beam DRLs.
 
More and more of these idiots are on the road every night. Could someone explain to me why bluish-white is "cool"? The last time I checked, our eyes evolved around a yellow star, not a blue one.

Ban these headlights, fine people that are using market-installed HID headlights, and throw the idiots using "HID converters" in jail for the weekend. The even bigger idiots that are using blue-tinted halogens or blue filters (why??) should be thrown in jail for a week.

Edit: This post was made partly with tongue in cheek, but I really can't stand those HID headlights out there. I think it is really pathetic that there are even non-HID headlights that try to imitate them as a pure gimmick.

Truthfully, your views are PARTIALLY valid. If you do not like the blinding light of HIDs, then you have a right to be hold that opinion. I also agree that people should be sanctioned for retrofitting illegal kits (but not jailed). However, your idea of fining people for stock OEM HIDs is a product of childishness and poorly managed anger. The same is true about your post in general. With all due respect, you seem more emotional than logical.

Your rant seems to attack people's aesthetic values rather than focus on safety. I personally think that you shouldn't evaluate people's values. If someone likes the blue tint, then they have a right to like it. It seems like you want to jail/fine people for liking blue rather than for safety breeches. Also, you calling HID and blue-glass-bulb users 'idiots' is just as offensive and stereotypical as saying something racial if you ask me.

In case you're wondering why people like HIDs so much:
Higher color temperatures are associated with luxury and high-end cars since it implies more advanced technology. That's why people like HIDs for 'coolness.' Also, the reason you're "seeing more and more of these idiots" (as you typed) with HIDs is also due to it being advancing technology. Soon, everyone will have HIDs.

I do agree that the blue tint is pointless, but people have a right to sacrifice light output for aesthetics/blue tint if they wish. I stick with pure white 4300K for maximum luminous output personally.
 
people have a right to sacrifice light output for aesthetics/blue tint if they wish.

Certainly...in their living room, bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, office, hallway, or garage, where their choice affects only their own life. That's not the case on the highway, where somebody's aesthetic preference for blue light could very well cost my life or my car. Remember, we're talking here about a car's primary nighttime safety devices, not playtoys to be decorated however the owner wants. Reducing their safety performance is not okay.

As for equating a factually defensible low view of somebody's voluntary behavior with remarks about somebody's race...well...uh...no. Please try to think harder and more clearly.
 
Taliano, nicely put!

Scheinwerfmann, you can certainly generalize about the performance of HID retrofit kits in vehicles. However, unless you see the results of a specific installation from all viewing angles in all vehicle applications, you really can't speak with any authority.
 
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I don't like HID kits in any vehicle. I Am Old and it just Kills my eyes, it Bilnds me to the point that I don't drive at night unless I have to. It seems that, down here, there's a ton of those kits on the road and no one is getting pulled over, stopped, ticketed, or anything else. It's a real problem around here. 90% of what I see are illegal HID kits here and poorly done at best.

I think there will always be people (me) who just hate HID headlights, stock or not, but I just really wish that the government had set better standards up and made better regulations for them a long time ago, so it would at least be more controllable than it is now.

Oh, and since Aftermarket kits are ILLEGAL in the USA, it doesn't matter what argument those users say, about personal taste, or I aim them right, or it's not that bad. It's ILLEGAL and you are wrong, always were wrong, always will be wrong. As long as you are breaking the law, you're wrong.......
 
How many infractions do all of us commit, every day of our lives? None of us is 100% law-abiding. We pick and choose which laws we obey and choose to accept the risks.
 
Scheinwerfmann, you can certainly generalize about the performance of HID retrofit kits in vehicles. However, unless you see the results of a specific installation from all viewing angles in all vehicle applications, you really can't speak with any authority.

Yeah, actually I can. See here.
 
A quote from Scheinwerfermann in the link he provided:

"But there are still plenty of people who really, really, really want to believe that their illegal & dangerous headlights are OK, and will come up with (and believe) any justification to rationalize that belief, no matter how baseless or fact-free. I have scrutinized many hundreds (possibly thousands) of modified headlamps, most of them halogens with HID kits. Most of them are so obviously noncompliant just to the naked (trained) eye that it's not worth bothering to test them formally. Some of them aren't obviously noncompliant, and some of those even look pretty good...but fail formal photometric testing. The optics are different for a reason: they have to be, to distribute the light correctly from the HID light source. I have yet to see an HID kit installation that passes formal photometric testing. Improper light distribution, even if the cutoff is still present. Perhaps someday somebody will show me an HID kit installation that produces acceptable photometrics…I'll keep looking. ;-)"

What does "scrutinized" mean in the context of your post? What are your credentials in this field, what are your testing methods, are they recognized by the appropriate testing agencies? I actually don't know the answers to the above and am not baiting. If there is proper back-up to what you say and your credentials, testing methods and authority to do such tests are appropriate, then I will view what you say in a whole different light, no pun intended. There is certainly no backup in the thread you link to. I don't question the illegality of HID retrofits. I know they are illegal, all of them. I question someone's ability to make statements that no HID retrofits can be done in all commercially available vehicles that effectively work and that don't adversely affect other drivers.
 
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How many infractions do all of us commit, every day of our lives? None of us is 100% law-abiding. We pick and choose which laws we obey and choose to accept the risks.

Actually, when it comes to driving, if I do commit an infraction, it will be one that I don't know about. I do follow all of the driving laws and rules that I know of, like obeying road signs and signals and I drive both defensively and offensively. I do actually come to a complete stop at all stop signs, maintain correct speeds, slow down when conditions warrant, etc., etc., etc. I know to many people, that's crap and sissy stuff, but I'm very proud of the fact that I've never been in an accident in 37 years of driving and I've been able to avoid many.....
 
One thing that is counter-intuitive is that people who complain about the bright light also complain about the aesthetic blue color. But, what they're not realizing is that the light output is actually inversely related to the blue color. The more blue color there is, the less light is output. So these people complaining about the brightness should LIKE the blue tinted higher color temp HIDs rather than complaining about them. They should be complaining about the 4300K-5000K white HIDs more than the blue 6000K+ bulbs, but it seems like they hate the blue worse... ironic.

Trust me, people just hate aesthetics.

Another thing is that these people complain about brighter light being too dangerous, but then they complain that the blue tint being DARKER is also dangerous since its too dark. Well, what is dangerous, dark or bright?

This tells me that these people are mad about blue color and the 'coolness' factor rather than safety.
 
One thing that is counter-intuitive is that people who complain about the bright light also complain about the aesthetic blue color. But, what they're not realizing is that the light output is actually inversely related to the blue color. The more blue color there is, the less light is output. So these people complaining about the brightness should LIKE the blue tinted higher color temp HIDs rather than complaining about them. They should be complaining about the 4300K-5000K white HIDs more than the blue 6000K+ bulbs, but it seems like they hate the blue worse... ironic.

Trust me, people just hate aesthetics.

Another thing is that these people complain about brighter light being too dangerous, but then they complain that the blue tint being DARKER is also dangerous since its too dark. Well, what is dangerous, dark or bright?

This tells me that these people are mad about blue color and the 'coolness' factor rather than safety.

4300k-5000k without bieng in the correct HID projector light, causes Other people to be blinded. 6000k-8000k causes less light for the Driver to see with (less than halogen). Both ways are unsafe. Easy to see if you read all the posts, unless you're using the wrong light when reading.....

Darkness (blue) is dangerous to the person driving and anyone else the driver runs into. Blinding (uncontrolled) light is dangerous to the driver in the opposing lane and anyone else that driver runs into. Now we just have to determine if running into people is cool or not........
 
This tells me that these people are mad about blue color and the 'coolness' factor rather than safety.

The more blue=less light would make sense filtering down a tungsten halogen.
But with regards to HID, it is quite possible to have 1500+ lumens of highly biased light (way too much sub 500 nanometer content)

Secondly, I don't care if you filtered 700 lumens (9004) down to 350 lumens.
It is wrong to do that because it isn't honest light.
The blue light doesn't stimulate the iris closing response as white light does. It is as if someone walks up to you, way too close, far in your personal space and shouts at the top of their lungs. (if that happened in real life they would be lucky that I would 'only' knock them out)

Dumbasses don't look cool with blue light. They should have taken anatomy/physiology (or at least paid attention)
 
4300k-5000k without bieng in the correct HID projector light, causes Other people to be blinded. 6000k-8000k causes less light for the Driver to see with (less than halogen). Both ways are unsafe. Easy to see if you read all the posts, unless you're using the wrong light when reading.....

Darkness (blue) is dangerous to the person driving and anyone else the driver runs into. Blinding (uncontrolled) light is dangerous to the driver in the opposing lane and anyone else that driver runs into. Now we just have to determine if running into people is cool or not........

The dangers of blue/aim is general knowledge, but my point remains...

The OP was complaining about properly aimed non-blue (stock) HIDs too. Which makes his argument about blue and improper aim less valid. It shows that even if the blue and improperly aimed bulbs were fixed to be white and properly aimed, he'd still want to impose ridiculous sanctions on reasonable people. I'm just showing that he's looking hard for things to complain about due to a general dislike for HIDs. That's just what it seems like to me.

Anyway, bright light is part of driving. I think oncoming halogens are just as blinding. The only difference to me is the quality and distribution of the light.
 
Yes SAE sucks. Glare is built into the system. (we do have very high quality retroreflective signage now) The US should allow ECE as of 2010, and discontinue SAE as of 2015. Basically the timeframe for LED headlights to come online.

So it is especially egregious when someone doubles-triples (quadruple/quintuple if someone stick HID retrofit into refector, 10x if that was a initially a dual beam) the that glare.



I hate it when truckers put that extreme purple lens over the light on the rear of the tractor (of tractor/trailer)
Why is it there, why is it on? The eye just can't focus on something around 400nanometer. (the eye will try)
 
The concept of practical significance comes up here. The HIDs might actually account for some percentage of danger on the road, but exactly how much? I would bet that its not enough to even make a difference. It is evident that there are other dangers that account for way more accidents than HIDs.

There are other more important factors, such as driving behaviors, that will make a large difference in road safety and the number of accidents that occur. So to improve road safety, lets consider some things that are way more important than HIDs.

Impatient, irritated, hurried, careless, reckless, immature drivers are what I am referring to. That is, people who tailgate, speed in dangerous areas, cut people off, weave in and out of lanes, try to get ahead of the crowd in rush hour traffic, talk on phones, etc... This is what people should be concerned about. And these people are very numerous. There aren't just a few... virtually, everyone on the road drives like this.

For example, when I drive, I let all the impatient and reckless people speed around me and almost hit someone while I just sit back and go the speed limit without tailgating. I keep everyone around me in check. On the freeway, I stay away from the sides of people in case they switch lanes without looking. This kind of safe, patient driving behavior is much more valuable than refraining from getting HIDs.

So driving recklessly is much more of a problem than HIDs. If reckless and careless driving was eliminated, then everyone could get the most dangerous HIDs, and the roadways would still be much safer than they are now. So to someone like me who is against reckless driving, complaining about HIDs sounds silly and underimportant.

Whatever the case, I like my HIDs and LEDs in my car. The glow is much more technologically advanced looking and suits my car well. I believe that if I drive safely, then the tiny amount of danger attributable to my lights is much overrated and overcompensated for.
 
For example, when I drive, I let all the impatient and reckless people speed around me and almost hit someone while I just sit back and go the speed limit without tailgating.

Something like this? I hope you at least stick to the slow lane... Otherwise, you're obstructing traffic, endangering others just like those impatient drivers.
 
Something like this? I hope you at least stick to the slow lane... Otherwise, you're obstructing traffic, endangering others just like those impatient drivers.

huh.

So in order to travel in the left lane(say a convoy of semis is traveling at 40 miles per hour in the right lane on a highway 2 lanes in each direction), what speed should I go, if the posted speed limit is 55, if I want to obey the law and drive safely? (suppose it's a sunny clear day with excellent visibility)
 
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Something like this? I hope you at least stick to the slow lane... Otherwise, you're obstructing traffic, endangering others just like those impatient drivers.

I didn't watch the video... but if you're implying that me driving calmly is also dangerous, then I don't agree. Of course I let people pass.

The point remains that people driving dangerously accounts for more variability in road safety than HIDs...

Okay, I've participated in this discussion long enough. I'm here to talk about car lighting mods actually... not about road safety. So I'm done with this thread.

But let me just say before I go that even if HIDs were terrible, fining people for having stock parts on their cars would still be ridiculous since they didn't put them on themselves. What if you were fined because you unknowingly bought tuna from a company that didn't use recycled packaging material? You'd have to pay a fine for something that wasn't your fault, and there's enough of THAT already. If the OP would have left out the "fine stock HID people" part, then it would have sounded much more reasonable (even though I disagree totally).
 
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Yeah, fining stock HID people is stupid. My HID projectors have noticeably less glare than the terrible 9004 halogens they replaced.

Maybe consider an auto-levelling system becoming mandatory in the next few years, but eliminating HID technology completely? That's stupid.
 
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