Best easy replacement for LUX III still SSC P4?

[Marlinaholic]

Hello all, this is probably a dumb question, but just having gotten back into lights after a couple years off, is the best easy replacement for the LUX III in say Surefire heads still the SSC P4 or has something brighter that fits well come along? I did some googling but a lot of the info that comes up is old. Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[archimedes]

If you are talking about custom mod's, milky has put an XM-L in some recent builds ( like the MOAL, D.Retinizer, etc ) ... perhaps 600+ lumens OTF

 

[PCC]

The round base of a Lux III is 8mm in diameter. datiLED had some 8mm XM-L boards made that are almost a perfect fit to allow you to swap one of those in place of a Lux III. You'll end up with a hotspot that is twice as wide as it is now at about the same intensity (Lux) when driven at the same level. The big difference, though, is if you change out the driver to one that is pushing 1.5A or more. You'll get a truly amazing amount of light. 1.0A should be good for roughly 300 lumens, 1.5A is good for about 400 lumens, and 3A should be good for about 650 lumens. These are out the front lumens.

 

[Marlinaholic]

Cool, that is the board I'd need. Thanks PCC. What brand of paste solder do you recommend? Looks like re-flowing would be something I could handle if I have the right paste and a hotplate. I don't see bare XM-L's at the same place those 8mm boards are, where is the best place to grab them? Too bad someone doesn't sell XM-L's already mounted to a 8mm board to help out dummies like myself, but looks like all they come mounted to are larger stars.

 

[ToyTank]

You might send nailbender or someone else active in the custom B/S/T forum with XM-Ls a PM and see if datiLED sent them the board if they would do the skilled work for you. Dave(nailbender) has a wide range of XM-L and other emitters on hand. Of coarse it will cost more but may get better results depending on you own skill and experience.

 

[moderator007]

Illuminationsupply has the board and the xml's are already mounted on other boards. They have one thats on a 10mm board that could possibly be filed down to 8mm. Or you could solder the xml off one board and reflow to the 8mm board. Most of the places that sell bare emitters are over seas. So it usually takes a week or two to receive them. Places like kaidomain, dealextreme, lck-led or cutter.

 

[Marlinaholic]

I'm getting the XML U2 S2 already mounted on 8mm board thanks to the kindness of datiLED. Assuming I'm putting this into a 5th gen Surefire L1, the factory driver should work fine right. I have some 26 AWG teflon wire to connect the PCB to the driver leads since I won't have the little copper feet to solder like the SSC P4 has. The SSC P4 I have in there now is ok, pretty much pure white maybe leaning toward cold. The reflector I'm using now is a McR-20S which works great with the SSC P4, will it work the same with the XM-L? Thanks for all the info guys, I really appreciate it. I'll post pictures of my project if I can get it all lined up.

 

[datiLED]

Thanks for the tip 007, perhaps the easiest would be just to grab a 10mm and file down the sides. I'm also looking into just having someone attach the LED to the board for me, but either way should be ok. Assuming I'm putting this into a 5th gen Surefire L1, the factory driver should work fine right. I have some 26 AWG teflon wire to connect the PCB to the driver leads since I won't have the little copper feet to solder like the SSC P4 has. I'll have to decide between the various XM-Ls, (3000K warm, 4000K neutral, 5000K cool right?) I'm thinking 4000K as it wouldn't be orange yellow, but shouldn't be "cold" looking either. The SSC P4 I have in there now is ok, pretty much pure white maybe leaning toward cold. The reflector I'm using now is a McR-20S which works great with the SSC P4, will it work the same with the XM-L? Thanks for all the info guys, I really appreciate it. I'll post pictures of my project if I can get it all lined up.

An 8mm XM-L board with a copper shim below is an easy update. The thickness of the copper shim will need to be somewhere in the 0.050" - 0.060" range when replacing a Luxeon LED with an XM-L (on the 8mm board). Do a dry fit of the assembly to check the focus of the new LED in the reflector. The McR-20s is an excellent reflector to use with an XM-L, and will not require any modification. Just watch the height of your solder joints to avoid the potential for a short against the reflector.

The 5000K is still slightly in the neutral territory, with 4000K being on the warmer side of neutral. 3000K reminds me of an incandescent light with dying batteries, and is something that I avoid. (I figured out that is why I dislike the warm tint LEDs.)

Looking forward to seeing your mod pictures.

 

[UncleFester]

...The round base of a Lux III is 8mm in diameter. datiLED had some 8mm XM-L boards made that are almost a perfect fit to allow you to swap one of those in place of a Lux III....

...An 8mm XM-L board with a copper shim below is an easy update. The thickness of the copper shim will need to be somewhere in the 0.050" - 0.060" range when replacing a Luxeon LED with an XM-L (on the 8mm board)..

Gosh I wish I had known about this. I got 14mm boards because they're the diameter of the H22 heatsink pedestal and sanded off the locating nubs on the heatsink. I've got 8mm boards on the way now LOL. Datiled, does somebody sell the copper shims? It'd be a little tricky for the home brewer to make something like that. (well at least one that's round anyway). BTW, somebody was talking about sanding down a 10mm board to 8mm. It'd be tricky keeping that round also.........

 

[Marlinaholic]

The Sandwich Shoppe has them, that's where I got mine. Thanks for all the info guys, it is invaluable and I appreciate it, I'll take some pics as I work for sure as long as you promise not to laugh. One more question about the actual mounting of the 8mm board in the head. On the SSC P4's I always just put some thermal grease under them and then soldered the little copper "feet" down to the pads in surefire heads and that held them down well but made for easy removal later on. Since these XML's have no "feet" I am assuming I'll have to Arctic Alumina Epoxy them down to hold them in place. Can I cut a round piece of copper adhesive tape (a .32-20 shell with the mouth sharpened should make a fine cookie cutter) and place it in the head, then Arctic alumina the 8mm PCB to that? I would think that would still provide a thermal path without making it impossible (or horrible) to remove the pcb later? Just a thought, how would you guys mount this thing so that it can be removed someday when a better emitter hits the market?

 

[moderator007]

Just a thought, how would you guys mount this thing so that it can be removed someday when a better emitter hits the market?

I use FUJIK thermal silicone glue for almost everthing I build for the purpose of future upgrades. Its not what I would say easy to seperate but is alot easier than epoxy. Once you get them apart the silicone can be rubbed off just like normal silicone. It can be seperated without destroying parts in a twisting action instead of trying to pry the led pcb off. It seems to hold a suction between the two mating parts. Twisting seems to release the suction. I always lap the pcb and heatsink to give the best mating surfaces. The thinner the glue the better the heat transfer. I have lapped several different pcb's from several different places and all where not flat.
It's not the most efficient thermal glue on the market but does work well. I have used FUJIK glue with a xml on a 12mm pcb at 3.5amps in a maglite without problems.

 

[Marlinaholic]

Decided to try this old KL1 head first. Someone else mounted a SSC P4 in it with big blobs of solder, lots of scratches, and no shim, so I carefully removed it and all the solder and got my shims ready. I have two Shoppe discs soldered together and filed to .060 thick, and a custom shim that also measures exactly .060 that I made from a .30 caliber copper gas check filled with some solder. It fits the Surefire emitter hole perfectly as you can see, so was thinking I might use it. I'll be careful so it isn't causing a short across the head though, might trim the sides a little.

 

[Marlinaholic]

Well that was a learning experience! I first shimmed up the XML with .060 worth of shims to match the SSC P4 height exactly. That is fine if you want to use the original optic, but I have to warn you, if you do you'll get a super bright SQUARE of light, just like the old Luxeon emitter put out, only bigger and much brighter! Since I'm not really into square beams, I decided I have to go with a reflector. The McR-20S reflector gave a beautiful beam, but with the emitter shimmed I had to put two O rings tucked behind the reflector to prevent it from touching the emitter with the head tightened, and that left a sizable gap on the outside of the head. I thought "well that sucks" and so removed the shimmed emitter and replaced it with one totally un-shimmed. Man that copper adhesive tape worked great, allowed me to peel that shimmed emitter out despite it being arctic aluminaed to the tape.

Once I did that, I only needed one O ring behind the reflector to take up the space the original optic rim would have occupied, and the reflector came down perfectly, just enough above the emitter so it doesn't cause a short but no farther. I suck at beamshots, all the heads look brighter in real life, and the new emitter is not greenish at all, but they do give you an idea of how much brighter that XML is compared to the Luxeon or SSC emitters. Tons of spill but comparing throw, I really don't see much difference vs either of the older emitters using the original optics, so haven't really given up anything with this conversion vs the older heads and gained wonderful bright spill.

If you are stuck on using the original optic, the SSC P4 is still the way to go as it eliminates the square beam, but if you can spare a reflector, then the XML is definitely a great option, as you will be amazed at how bright it is in one of these KX1 heads.

Original square beam KL1

SSC P4 w/original optic

XML with McR-20S reflector

head

side view, no gap!

 

[Marlinaholic]

After reading some positive info, I'm going to try a McR-20 Joker reflector in this head. Might increase throw according to those who have tried it. Anyone else here try the Joker with XM-L?

 

[Justin Case]

The Sandwich Shoppe copper shims are 0.03" thick and were designed to shim up emitters like the Seoul P4 to match the emitter height of the Luxeon V. IIRC, the Luxeon III has the same emitter height as the Lux V.

When I mod'ed a SureFire U2 that used a Seoul P4, I found that the final emitter height for an XP-G reflowed onto a 2mm thick, 10mm diam MCPCB was perfect. The tedious part was filing down that 10mm diam MCPCB to fit within the 8mm ribs on the SF heat sink.

Later, I upgraded that same U2 to an XM-L that was reflowed onto one of datiLED's 8mm boards. I used an 0.045" thick copper shim under datiLED's board. IMO, determining the optimum shim thickness is a bit of a black art. However, I am a bit surprised that an 0.06" thick shim was needed to match the height of the P4. I used 0.045" based on my measurement of the datiLED board thickness of 0.8mm. Since the XP-G was on a 2mm thick board and it seemed to be in perfect focus, I assumed that I needed to add 1.2mm of thickness to the XM-L to get it to the same height. 1.2mm is 0.047". I went with 0.045" to provide allowance for the thermal glue layers.