Better Business Bureau

Norm

Retired Administrator
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
9,512
Location
Australia
So why is theft Not a Violation of CPF Terms Of Service ? Or TOS ? .... it may be a private sale , but it gives CPF a bad rap as a site on the internet ... there are people here waiting for a product, and Mac as a Courtesy , as a business person should be providing answers to these people...

Because it is none of my (CPF's) business. These transactions that take place between private parties do not involve me or CPF beyond providing a venue for private parties to engage in such transactions.

Just as CPF provides a forum for you to discuss the problem.

Norm
 
Last edited:

IsaacL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
624
It's been worsening for years. It's not going to blow over.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting it will "blow over".

Anyways, I do also wonder at times why Lummi and Mac still have subforums here. Rob and Mac haven't posted or monitored their subforums for ages. What's more, their business practices have been deplorable.

That they still have subforums gives the impression (whether true or not) that CPF as a community and its administration still support them. I would say almost no one supports Lummi anymore and many are unhappy with Mac.

We know that Rob is a fraud. Mac is at worst a bad business manager....and he's not going around bilking people like Rob still is. I wonder at times why the two get compared to each other since the situation is not at all the same. You should realize that people who are currently waiting for their lights are going to see these posts and get the wrong idea. What they should be doing is opening a line of communication either to Mac or with their financial institutions.

The Arc subforum was dissolved when Arc as it was when Peter was a part of this community no longer existed. Lummi and Mac's Customs really are no longer a part of this community.

I agree, these makers no longer participate in the CPF community.

What's more, and perhaps the thing that irks me the most is that these two subforums, rife with threads about problems with the makers and absent any activity on the part of those makers, stand strong in a prominent place alongside esteemed members of the board such as Don and Data and Fred and the Oveready boys and others. Personally, I think it is absurd that Rob's subforum should be right there alongside these guys who still work so hard to support the community and take outstanding care of their customers. Lummi and Mac no longer deserve to have their subforums.

I make a motion to dissolve these subforums and move the threads as was done with Arc.

You have no argument from me here. Just thinking about Rob makes me sick. I don't believe that Mac's forum should continue to stand next to the rest who are dedicated to the community. Regardless, those decisions are up the Greta to make.

Greta, If this is OT feel free to move it or start a new thread with it as the OP or something but it's something I've wanted to say for awhile and I hope it is taken seriously. Thank you.

Having said that, I firmly believe that closure has not been reached for the customers with outstanding orders. Furthermore, there has been substantial activity surrounding Mac's lights in the past year. There are over 2 dozens threads with posts from 2014 in this forum alone, even more if you look back to last October. In addition, there have been countless sales of Mac's lights in both of the sale forums. Perhaps even more importantly, there has been a ton of support from community members to repair and modify existing lights. All of that would likely be nixed if this subforum were dissolved immediately. Is that fair to the people who own Mac's lights?

Finally, Mac has indeed been active, even if not to the fullest extent necessary. I have received emails from him, others have received emails from him, Gonefishing just received a light, Mac left a message on the website, then he shut down his website. There is no longer any issue of people ordering new lights without knowing the current situation.

im not trying to stir the pot, or be aggressive in any way ... If i paid $600.00 or more for a flashlight , as some people have here, and then gotten no replies, PM or emails to where my flashlight is ? i would be not in a happy mood... If you add up the amount of money he has collected for lights still not delivered, that to me is theft , So why is theft Not a Violation of CPF Terms Of Service ? Or TOS ? .... it may be a private sale , but it gives CPF a bad rap as a site on the internet ... there are people here waiting for a product, and Mac as a Courtesy , as a business person should be providing answers to these people...

You are correct, people who are still waiting are not happy, nor should they be. They are even less happy when they stumble across these threads and get the wrong idea. CPF is not going to step in. Lawyers are not going to step in. The Better Business Bureau is not going to step in. Law enforcement is (probably) not going to step in. And so reading/posting those suggestions is not going to help fix the problem.

The reason I am active in this forum is to help existing owners with their lights and to help outstanding customers reach closure, either with their orders or monetary compensation. As far as I can see, sounding the alarm and calling for the end of this forum accomplishes neither of those two things. It's easy to jump into this mess to complain about Mac. I'm not here for Mac. I'm here for everyone who currently owns or has paid for a light from him. If you really want to see people get closure, it would be more productive to help them get it than to join in the cry of "fire!".

As for the bad rap, I doubt that quite frankly. Show me a forum where a maker/dealer has not flaked.
 

RUSH FAN

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Messages
1,160
Location
USA
IsaacL:

Kudos to your well written point by point writing.
Yes, there are still many of us who still review information on this subforum for: new modifications, help on fixing things, tips, and even to just look at some nice Mac's flashlights!
I vote to keep the subforum open.

Thanks,

Rush
 

IsaacL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
624
Thanks Rush. FWIW, I don't entirely disagree with NBP. I would just like to see some resolution before this central meeting area is dispersed. He is completely right that Lummi and Mac's forums look bad when seen next to the other upstanding makers. The threads themselves would still be around.
 

alpg88

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
3,840
yea bbb is a joke, they want you to pay to make a complaint first.

my mother always says, if you lost money, say "thank you god, you took it in cash"
 

Greta

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
15,998
Location
Arizona
Having said that, I firmly believe that closure has not been reached for the customers with outstanding orders. Furthermore, there has been substantial activity surrounding Mac's lights in the past year. There are over 2 dozens threads with posts from 2014 in this forum alone, even more if you look back to last October. In addition, there have been countless sales of Mac's lights in both of the sale forums. Perhaps even more importantly, there has been a ton of support from community members to repair and modify existing lights. All of that would likely be nixed if this subforum were dissolved immediately. Is that fair to the people who own Mac's lights?

Finally, Mac has indeed been active, even if not to the fullest extent necessary. I have received emails from him, others have received emails from him, Gonefishing just received a light, Mac left a message on the website, then he shut down his website. There is no longer any issue of people ordering new lights without knowing the current situation.



... If you really want to see people get closure, it would be more productive to help them get it than to join in the cry of "fire!".


What he said... :twothumbs
 

jsarnold

New member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
1
Another one here.

My old man ordered two lights in September of 2013. It's now been over a year. No lights, and no communication.
 

willchance

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
10
Ordered a copper tri-edc nearly TWO YEARS AGO and still no light. Here's the only communication:

Will please send me your mailing address. You ordered a High CRI Copper Tri-EDC with clip? I'll take care of it ASAP.

Mac




quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by willchance
Hey Mac, wondering what's up with my light. Seen that you've responded to other people's PMs emails etc. So what's the deal? You cashed the check for a copper tri-EDC in November of 2012. Only word from you is this PM from June 2013.



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by cmacclel

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by willchance
Not sure if my emails sent to spam. Was reading on some posts that that was the most common problem with orders. I ordered a Copper Tri EDC w high CRI on 11/8. Check went through on 11/28.

Hope all's well.

~W



Will sorry about the confusion. I have a copper host ready for you and have some High CRI's new Cree XP-G2's due in this week. I will get your light out ASAP.

Thanks!

Please confirm your shipping address so there is no confusion :)






 

jkid1911

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
318
Location
NJ
I would personally like to see the forum remain open as I have a number of Mac's lights and enjoy being able to read and share comments about them in this forum. If this forum were to be shut down I would find it very detrimental and many of us that love our Mac's lights would be worse off for it. Just MHO...

My sympathies go out to all who have not received their lights, but I just can't see how closing this forum would help to resolve or help that situation.

Seems like apples and oranges to me....
 

nbp

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
10,731
Location
Wisconsin
Just a reminder, closing a forum doesn't close the threads. They can be put anywhere and members can continue to participate in them as per usual.

In my eyes, a subforum is a privilege, not a right. It gives a custom maker a special place to interact with members and customers. If a maker no longer even visits their subforum, then its original purpose has been lost.

If the only purpose of a subforum was to collect threads on a specific brand for fans to congregate, why not have subforums for every brand? Should not Surefire and Fenix have their own subforums too then? Obviously, that is not the point then, is it?

Furthermore, for those who say dissolving those subforums and dispersing the threads will not solve problems, I would say neither does leaving them open. Rob and Mac don't communicate through them anyways. I dunno. :shrug:

I have nothing more to say on this topic really. Apparently, my objective was either not clearly expressed or simply not shared by others. Oh well.
 

IsaacL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
624
Not at all NBD. Sorry if it sounded that way. I'm in 100% agreement with what you said before...the analogy is spot on. I think the only thing we differ on is timing...

It's not my intent to start a vote (I don't think that's how CPF works anyhow). You've been here longer than me and I've always appreciate your posts.
 

nbp

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
10,731
Location
Wisconsin
Not at all NBD. Sorry if it sounded that way. I'm in 100% agreement with what you said before...the analogy is spot on. I think the only thing we differ on is timing...

It's not my intent to start a vote (I don't think that's how CPF works anyhow). You've been here longer than me and I've always appreciate your posts.

Thanks, and I do agree. It need not happen immediately but I think it's something to consider for the future. Appreciate the clarification and all your helpful and informative posts in this subforum - they are well thought out and useful. :)

I'm not trying to be a killjoy or troll here - I have had several of Mac's lights and I will heartily agree with everyone that they are fantastic. I simply want to help preserve the integrity and professionalism of the forum. I hope that is ultimately what comes through. Thanks for listening.
 

IsaacL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
624
Yes, I think a number of people (but not everyone) were aware of that. I've avoided publishing it lest it encourage a face-to-face confrontation. Of course, what you do is your business but I want no part of that kind of thing. Now that it's out there, their business phone number may be another way to reach Mac.

Edit: I've asked an Admin if posting more contact info on Essex Vapor/Mac is alright. I have quite a bit on both but I won't share it here if it's in violation of the rules/terms of service.


mac is running Essex Vapor In boston.... http://www.essexvapor.com/
 
Last edited:

openbolt1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
343
It almost sounds as if Mac is going the way of Milkyspit. Too many orders, taking monies up front and not delivering lights when promised. I just hope Mac can dig himself out of the hole he appears to be in and delivers on what's been paid for. It was shameful the way. Scott went down, I bought (had modded) a dozen lights from him. Sad, very sad.
 

Tiresius

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Messages
965
Location
Fresno, CA
For the record, Mac is a hard working man. Here's a little history of his work through my experience. When he first started, I wanted in on his work of art but had to wait 1 year until I got in between the second batch through private messages as the list already filled one day after he put up the batch requests. Remember, it's his second batch.

It took him 6 months from the start of my payment to reply and another month, the light arrives. Guys, this was in 2011 and the man is super busy trying to perfect his work and giving you nothing but perfection. Now fast forward a few years with his Web page launched and purchases are done individually instead of a batch where he already had the hosts done and awaiting orders to come and assemble based on specific tint, LED, driver, and UI.

I used to make custom parts for hosts that were requested. Custom work requires precision and lots of measurement, throwing away parts that fall 1/1000 of an inch under and starting over again. It's not an easy business and when people start dropping their hosts via mail and personally, things get out of hand and my only option is to return them with a formal apology.

I can only imagine the troubles Mac is going through.

If you're going to buy a custom light, expect the delays to be very long. Mac had to build my light from scratch since he was nice enough take in one extra request, knowing that he didn't have an extra host premade from the batch.
 

hig789

Active member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
39
For the record, Mac is a hard working man. Here's a little history of his work through my experience. When he first started, I wanted in on his work of art but had to wait 1 year until I got in between the second batch through private messages as the list already filled one day after he put up the batch requests. Remember, it's his second batch.

It took him 6 months from the start of my payment to reply and another month, the light arrives. Guys, this was in 2011 and the man is super busy trying to perfect his work and giving you nothing but perfection. Now fast forward a few years with his Web page launched and purchases are done individually instead of a batch where he already had the hosts done and awaiting orders to come and assemble based on specific tint, LED, driver, and UI.

I used to make custom parts for hosts that were requested. Custom work requires precision and lots of measurement, throwing away parts that fall 1/1000 of an inch under and starting over again. It's not an easy business and when people start dropping their hosts via mail and personally, things get out of hand and my only option is to return them with a formal apology.

I can only imagine the troubles Mac is going through.

If you're going to buy a custom light, expect the delays to be very long. Mac had to build my light from scratch since he was nice enough take in one extra request, knowing that he didn't have an extra host premade from the batch.

Well imo if it was that crazy he should have shut the order buttons down on his site until he got caught up on orders. Instead he let people buy at will and buried himself I assume. He has time to make custom vapping devices now though?
 

LupinIII

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
267
Location
NY/NJ Area
For the record, Mac is a hard working man. Here's a little history of his work through my experience. When he first started, I wanted in on his work of art but had to wait 1 year until I got in between the second batch through private messages as the list already filled one day after he put up the batch requests. Remember, it's his second batch.

It took him 6 months from the start of my payment to reply and another month, the light arrives. Guys, this was in 2011 and the man is super busy trying to perfect his work and giving you nothing but perfection. Now fast forward a few years with his Web page launched and purchases are done individually instead of a batch where he already had the hosts done and awaiting orders to come and assemble based on specific tint, LED, driver, and UI.

I used to make custom parts for hosts that were requested. Custom work requires precision and lots of measurement, throwing away parts that fall 1/1000 of an inch under and starting over again. It's not an easy business and when people start dropping their hosts via mail and personally, things get out of hand and my only option is to return them with a formal apology.

I can only imagine the troubles Mac is going through.

If you're going to buy a custom light, expect the delays to be very long. Mac had to build my light from scratch since he was nice enough take in one extra request, knowing that he didn't have an extra host premade from the batch.

For many people here - they have no communication and no light. Add on top of that the many months or even years they have been waiting, and they frankly have dwindling hope of receiving anything. Keep in mind these are products they paid for in advance. Mac has their money and these guys have nothing to show for it, not even an email that says "I'm working on your order - sorry for the delay".

I want to be sympathetic to his "troubles" but I care far more about the members here (and my good friend) who thus far have paid thousands of dollars for what amounts to shameful service. You can talk about his craft and work ethic all you want but as things currently stand, that is not putting lights into these guys' hands.
 

MyersNike

New member
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
2
The BBB is a waste of money in my eyes.They do NOTHING for your business. Your Chamber of Commerce would be better spent.Attendings monthly meets gives you a chance to network with other business owners
 
Top