Binning changes and what?

[Wylie]

Binning changes and what?

As I have just went though a couple of low dome white batwing one watts with this first one watt flashlight.
I set the optics to deep in the head of the Oracle or the LED too high so I cracked two of the domes now

. They still work but I do not like the shadows

. These are not the same optics that the pictures were posted of today, these were adjustable optics that are soon to be changed out for the new non-focusable I just worked out.
I have taken a look at the ordering methods and binning of Lumiled's one watt white LEDs and I have to say that is a little more than confusing.

I would like to order the brightest whitest one watt LEDs possible and I just though it would be best to ask the people who know. So anyway, what would I be looking for in the way of a model number, bin number and alpha numeric chingoso anyway.

Wylie

 

[Nerd]

Well. Most of the time the best you could get is Q2H

Q = 30 - 39 lumens
2 = 5000 - 5500 K Colour Temperature *EDIT: Thanks Doug for pointing out the error
H = 3.03 - 3.27 forward voltage

Everything can be found here: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AB21.PDF

 

[Doug S]

Let us know if you manage to successfully specify a specific set of bin codes.
BTW, Nerd meant to say 2 = 5000-5500K CCT not nm.

 

[moses]

Ah...but has anyone every seen a F or G forward voltage or is H the lowest? I'd love to pay a premium for a Q rating with F or G forward voltage, without too much concern for tints.

MO

 

[MR Bulk]

Mo,

I think there will be ratings constraints since the combination must actually be possible; for example I doubt there could be a Z5A, just as there could not be an A1Z, etc. They must all combine to reach a physically possible sum total, or equilibrium.

 

[Wylie]

Okay folks,
As far as ordering goes I am still at a loss to tell the truth but I am getting closer to understanding I think

.
In my searching process I have dug into some previuos posts and found something about bare emitters

. I just ripped the dome off the LED in the Oracle flashlight I modified and something is happening I cannot explain. When the optics that are still in the Oracle are pressed against the bare emitter lightly I have a much brighter whiter light coming from this LED with a slight hint of blue. This is a whiter light then the LED transmitted in the first place, no yellows or pea green to speek of? I am only left to think that this means the dome of the LED was not adhered correctly in the first place? Is this odd or have any of you come accross the same thing with the LEDs you have delt with? I am going to see how my new optics work with the bare emitter and a little pressure now!

Wylie

 

[Wylie]

Get this,
I tried my new optics with this LED I pulled the dome off of and my optics do not make direct contact with the phosphorus as they were designed for the one watt low domes. I did find that a direct pressure is needed on the phosphorus to change its emitted color from the pea green to the bright whiter bluish. As the couple LEDs I had acquired both started out with a semi yellow pea green color I feel these were not exactly the best LEDs and a different glue or epoxy may be in order for Lumiled to bring quality standards to par. A non flexable heat resistant epoxy could very well make a great difference in the quality and longevity of thier product. I have seen a lot of beam shots with this yellow pea green color in at least parts of the light projected now. I have convinced myself this is a manufacturers problem that could be fixed very easily with some different epoxies and applications of pressures during the curing stages of the domes applications.
I am looking for some feed back here if anybody has anything to offer. I am all ears here people!!!

 

[Nerd]

OMG! Wylie! If Lumileds see this, they are going to silence you for pointing out to everyone of us that they haven't corrected such a simple problem!

I do notice a bit of yellowing with my Devcon Crystal Clear Epoxy too. Sometimes when it dries, it's slightly yellow.

BTW when you removed the plastic dome, didn't any liquid flow out? If I didn't remember wrongly, they fluids inside there is s'pose to protect the LED from shock in one way, and to dissipate heat in the other way...

 

[Rothrandir]

it's like a sort of jelly-like substance...i found this out when i dropped my brinkmann 3aa mod with acryllic ball straight on it's head

 

[Wylie]

Nerd,
I am not sure what you mean by OMG? I would hope that Lumiled would be embarrassed enough by this type of mistake, short cut or savings action to recall the inferior products that have been produced and take a better look at their manufacturing processes and materials. This is how companies and their products stay on top and this should be of the greatest of interest to Lumiled to stay on top of their game. This would only create a greater interest in the products they manufacture and show a genuine interest in their customers satisfaction. As far as Lumiled silencing me I couldn't care less, I only hope they listen if they hear of this.

Most epoxies will yellow over time, this is just in their nature, I know this because of the epoxies used to build fishing rods. These epoxies also become yellow with time. I do not think the epoxy will have to be applied to the phosphorus inside, only to the area surrounding the phosphorus's cup.

When I pulled the dome off the only thing that even looked anything like liquid was what I thought to be glue or epoxy that was either poorly mixed or never cured completely because of poor mixing. Nothing like a liquid at all just this sticky stuff around the outside of the phosphuros cup. As far as I can tell there is less radiant heat coming from the opened phosphuros cup when illuminated then when the dome was in place.

Keeping it real,
Wylie

 

[Wylie]

Rothrandir,
Jelly like liquid could fit the bill here. It was not fluid like, more like you have mentioned a jelly stuff and the phosphorus has the sticky gooy kind of feeling to it as well. Okay, jelly fits the bill.

Wylie

 

[Nerd]

OMG = Oh My God or Oh My Goodness or Substitute the G for whatever suits the situation.

The emission of the light must be a 160 degrees now since there is no dome to direct the light.

BTW the removal of the dome makes the LED more vulnerable to outside impacts? Means you are not s'pose to touch the phosphor or anything like that now right? Is the phosper soft or hard? you planning on coating/protecting the top with anything?

 

[Wylie]

Nerd,
Thanks for the definition it should have made sense to me in the first place I guess.
Yes we are talking about 160 degrees of veiwing angle now. The phosphorus is not hard at all, every time something touches it, the phosphorus is trying to stick and it leaves a little bump on it afterwards.

Wylie

 

[Wylie]

Ah ha,
Just found an old lens from a laser and when I push down on it a little the nice white blue color returns. I think this calls for some Artic Alumina and some patients. I think I may just get it looking nice again color wise and glue my adjustable optics in place to avoid busting anything loose again. Maybe not I will have to see what I can do I like what I had going and hate to work the other direction. Such is life!

 

[Wylie]

Okay it's done, I have spent far too long playing around with this the focusing abilities of the this X-Oracle flashlight.
I just epoxied the adjustable optics to the point where they made the pressure needed to the phosphorus. This X-Oracle flashlight now emitts an almost ultra violet blue specturm of white light with a very even spread flood beam (now flood beam only). I am now thinking that my original thought of having a glow in the dark ring around the main beam of light on the lens is a go again and I am just waiting on the delivery of the pigment to do this. I have used the rubber switch cap from the original donor to cover my on, on switch that has been converted to a push on push off that is a lot quiter then most push on push offs. I tested her with new batteries and I have to be making an easy 1000 lux again

. I think I will call her the Gloraclux

when she is finished.
Now I can get back to making her pretty for presentation again.

Wylie

 

[Slick]

That "clear jel" that surrounds the emitter core is part of what makes the Luxeon special. That stuff doesn't yellow.

Not to shoot holes in anyone's theory here but the "pee geen" color comes from too much phosphor being applied to too low of a vF emitter (for batwings). The phosphor appliction techinque is improved for the lambertian.

 

[Wylie]

Hi Slick,
It seems that jell may just be a waste of time. I locked my opics down right on the phosphorus and and epoxied the crap out of the threads. It has burned all night and still looks fine to me now. I sent Nerd an Email showing the before and after. The picture also includes a look down the throat of the optics that were once adjustable but are now just set up as a nice flood of white bluish light. I just smashed all that extra phosphorus down with the optics I guess. I could have sworn that one of these batwings had a little tiny bubble in it, I just wonder what the boiling point of that jell is and how often these little buggers turn green like these did?
Keeping it real, bright

Wylie

 

[hotfoot]

Wylie, I'm pretty sure the gel is one of the key improvements of the luxeon over regular LEDs. The epoxy in regular LEDs has a tendency to yellow over time and with exposure to UV.

Luxeons overcome this optical degradation using this gel and no epoxies. For real-world commercial applications sold on the promise that the luxeons will practically last a lifetime, anything that will help retard light loss and buffer the effects of thermal cycling on those delicate bond wires would be pretty major.

Its nice, though, to hear the good results you're getting from your experiments and I'm sure the serious flashaholics out there and modders would be happy with this info too. Rock on!

 

[Wylie]

Thanks Hotfoot,
That LED is now locked up behind some optics with no jell or anything else to discolor it. I don't know why Lumiled would want to put anything over the phosphorus itself if that is the reason for the non-yellowing jell but they are the people doing the best with the high output LEDs. As for heat displacement, I am pretty sure this LED is running cooler without the dome and jell. I held my finger in front of the bare emitter for a while and couldn't even feel as much heat as with the dome on. The optics just happened to work out very well that I had in this flashlight and from I have seen so far I may just do away with the domes as soon as I get the LEDs if there is no changes that are noticed. I like the batwings because they are real small and easy to work with but this jell thing, I don't know. I'll continue to either make or brake them for a while longer to see if the new optics I am working on will have to change shape for a domeless approach. This flashlight has a real nice flood type light to it now. If I see an email link to you I will send some pics.
Thanks Hotfoot,
Wylie

 

[B@rt]

Wylie,
please post your pics...
I've created an ImageStation account for CPF members, read about it here .
Hope this helps,