Blind to 1200 lumens?

[dudemar]

NOTE TO MODS: If this isn't in the appropriate section feel free to move it to the right place. Thanks.

Long story short: Had a little incident outside my house. Heard some kids (and by kids I mean 16 year olds) outside my house, they got out of their cars and said "did you hit it?", as if they hit something with their cars. I unloaded 1200 lumens directly in the eyes of this kid 25-30' from me for 10 seconds, and he didn't even flinch. He stood there and stared directly into the hot spot like it's nothing, his eyes were wide open. Deer in the headlights. I intentionally directed the hot spot into his eyes, too.

My question is, is this normal? Is my AEX 20 malfunctioning? This kid must've been drunk/high/under the influence of something, because if someone did that to me I'd at least close my eyes momentarily or shield my face. He didn't even squint. His eyes would have been night-adapted as well, it was pretty dark outside.

My Xenide 20W seems to be functioning properly, it's still as bright as it was when I first acquired the light.

I got curious, so I tried blinding myself in a lit room at 25' for 10 seconds, with said Xenide. At first it's blinding, then I got used to it a bit, then it got downright uncomfortable. And yes, I squinted the whole time (as you can imagine). Now I have spots in my vision.

Any thoughts?

 

[TOOCOOL]

So let me get this straight, someone stops to see if they have hit something or someone and instead of going over with a flashlight to help out you blind them

 

[Flashanator]

I unloaded 1200 lumens directly in the eyes of this kid 25-30' from me for 10 seconds, and he didn't even flinch. He stood there and stared directly into the hot spot like it's nothing

ROFLMAO! Stuborn little kid. He doesnt appreciate your light.
This is hilarious, you just stood there blinding him??? Without knowing why they stoped???

Im not familiar with that light, but 1200lumens isnt anything to close your eyes at. Some ppl are different.

 

[adamlau]

I am certain that there is more to this story, but based on what you have posted, why would you intentionally try to blind someone?

 

[dudemar]

Haha, you guys' responses are hilarious.

There is more to the story. That was the ultra-condensed version so it sounds kinda strange. I'll start again:

First off, I'd like to start by saying I live in a shady neighborhood. Very shady. As in my next door neighbors deal crack and people vandalize my car for no reason. I'm surrounded by stupid people.:sick2: Hope this gives some perspective on things.

Like I said, I heard some high schoolers outside say "aw damn, did you hit it?". I listened in for a minute or two from inside my house, and with AEX20 in hand I went outside to see what's up. Two wankstas (hardcore Eminem wannabes) were walking around their cars parked in the middle of the street, and I politely asked:

Dudemar: "is everything ok?"

Wanksta #1: "nothing's going on"

Dudemar: "you said you hit something?"

Wanksta #1: "we're looking for his dog." (all the while they were kinda laughing)

Two high school kids looking for a dog at 1:30 in the morning sounded lame. Especially when they just then parked their cars in the middle of the street. At 1:30 in the morning. I smelled bull$#!t. After they drove off I fired up my Xenide to see what's what, but there was no dog, no trace of anything.

Five minutes later they came back. I stepped outside, this time they arrive in a red minivan, and yes, they parked that in the middle of the street. The 16 year old was standing in the middle of the street in complete darkness. He was obviously up to no good. My porch light was off so I too stepped out in darkness, and fired up my Xenide. I asked him what he's doing out here:

Wanksta: "I told you man, I'm looking for a dog."

Dudemar: "What does it look like?"

Wanksta: "It looks like a dog."

Dudemar: "Is it big? Small? Tall? Skinny? What color is it?"

Wanksta: "I don't know, it's a little thing, it's like a chihuahua."

At this point he was tripping on his own words, and I wasn't going to settle with him j

Dudemar: "OK I'm not buying your story, I'm going to ask you to leave."

This is where I flashed the hot spot of the Xenide directly in his eyes.

Wanksta: "I don't like you flashing that light in my face."

Dudemar: "I'm not buying your story one bit, please leave."

Wanksta: "You better get that light out of my face."

Dudemar: "Or else what?"

Wanksta: "Man, whateva, you can't do nothing to me. I'll f**k your stuff up, just watch."

He walks back to his red van and his buddy starts it up. I should've got his plate number, I was really tired and it just didn't click for me at the time. They drove away, and I immediately called the cops on them.

They never came back.

For whatever stupid reason, kids in my neighborhood use the "dog" excuse all the time. Kids will jump on the roof and hood of my car as if it were playground equipment. I'd ask them why the hell they do that, and every time they'll say a "dog" was chasing them. Funny, because every time that happens - guess what? There is no dog. I've been living in the same house for 20 years, I would know if there's a dog running rampant in the neighborhood.

Besides my long-winded story, are there any experiences where 1000+ lumens just wasn't enough to blind someone? Is anyone here at CPF extremely tolerant of pointing an HID in their eyes?:duh2: Do I need to go Polarion? One of the big reasons behind me buying an HID is the ability to temporarily blind someone. If I can't do that that's a bummer.:sigh:

 

[Pila_Power]

Dude, don't go outside asking for trouble.

Next time you could get badly hurt for sticking your nose where it shouldn't be.

Just call the cops and stay safely inside.

 

[LuxLuthor]

How do you know that is a 1200 lumen light? I have a lot of hotwires, and have seen what people claim for lumens to sell their lights, or how they use a nearly worthless AWR Hotrater spreadsheet taken from Welch Allyn's website formula for their bulbs....and suffice it to say, it is not accurate for many bulbs, and certainly not beyond about 15% overdrive.

Assuming it was more than 500 bulb lumens, if the guy was either on drugs, or just not moving from the light to be a tough guy and standing up to you (even though he was blinded)...the main thing is you wiped out his ability to see anything. Obviously it also depends on his distance from your light, state of battery charge, age of bulb, etc.

It's one thing to go out with only a light as your offensive/defensive weapon...quite another if you were packin' heat as a backup. Most of us wouldn't do what you did....cause you don't know if they have a gun, high on drugs, his night to make his bones, etc.

 

[WDG]

Besides my long-winded story, are there any experiences where 1000+ lumens just wasn't enough? Is anyone here at CPF extremely tolerant of pointing a flashlight in their eyes?

I doubt I'd find it very comfortable, but my eyes aren't as young as they used to be.

I trust you have something more than just a flashlight at hand for these things, yes? (For your legal protection, do NOT answer that.)

Sounds exactly like the kind of neighborhood I'd be impatient to move out of.

 

[BlueBeam22]

Sorry to hear about what happened, if it happens again I suggest you call the police right away.

I don't think 1200 lumens is enough to blind. The light you would need would be a 5-15 million candlepower spotlight, which should have a much brighter hotspot than your HID flashlight. I have quite a few and they are sickeningly bright and disorienting when someone shines them in my face from a distance.

I still don't think it would be a good idea to shine the spotlight on them because they might try to do something harmful to you, but you might want to get a powerful spotlight just for fun!

 

[Burgess]

Just a suggestion . . . .


If possible, consider a video surveilance camera(s).



Good Luck, and stay safe.

_

 

[Flashanator]

Your second story part was even more funny. L0L Srr 4 ur bad neighbourhood.

I would def use the Maxabeam for those situations :rock:, Uber light, no other light would do it for me. Hit them with strob mode.

I actually used my 1000w on a bunch of hoons in a car doing a monster burn out on our street. They took off pretty fast

 

[TorchBoy]

Am I the only one wondering why we're talking lumens not candelas?

 

[paulr]

You're reading too much Surefire marketing crap. The "blinding" thing is a myth. A sudden bright light can momentarily surprise or disorient someone. After a few moments you get used to it. Consider the distance you were at and figure out the illumination level in lux that was hitting the person from your light. Then compare that to the lux level of daylight that most people experience every day, and you'll see, no flashlight makes enough lumens to really impair or melt anyone at that distance.

 

[Patriot]

Besides my long-winded story, are there any experiences where 1000+ lumens just wasn't enough to blind someone? Is anyone here at CPF extremely tolerant of pointing an HID in their eyes?:duh2: Do I need to go Polarion? One of the big reasons behind me buying an HID is the ability to temporarily blind someone. If I can't do that that's a bummer.:sigh:

I suppose I'd have to ask what reaction you were expecting and in turn what that expectation was based on? The loose term, "blind" is making it even more difficult to relate to what outcome you might have anticipated. If you thought that it should have cause him to be unable to see for 30 seconds, consider this. We've all looked into the headlights of an oncoming car with it's brights on. It's annoying, and destroys your low light sensitivity for several seconds. You may even see spots when you blink for minutes afterwards. Personally this has never caused me and accident or to even drive off the road and I'd be surprise if it's happened to many others. It's a visual disruption and nothing more.

For whatever reason, I think many of us make assumptions or have predispositions about what a "bright light" is going to do when shinned at someone and I think that's were you need to look in order to get to the bottom of your question. Where do your assumptions regarding this subject come from? Was it from comments people have made here? A salesman at a local gun shop? Maybe a magazine advertisement or something in a movie? My point is that you had an expectation that didn't go the way you thought is was going to go. Instead of trying to figure out why a defiant punk didn't cower to the beam of your light, maybe the question ought to be, why did you think he would.

I have no doubt that your light is 1200 lumens or within 10% of that figure. The kid probably would have been defiant know matter what you shined at him. The situation that you described has nothing to do with the tactical application of light because there was no surprised involved, no threat. You practically carried on a conversation with them before shining your beam at them, at God knows what distance. My guess is that they probably thought you were off your rocker or drunk yourself. It's not like you lit the place up first and said what's going on out there. You had already been talking to them and when you didn't get the answer you wanted you decided to shine the light at them. They weren't intimidated by you and they wanted you to know it. Frankly I don't understand where the mystery is. This situation had everything to do with psychology and nothing to do with lumens.

In some cases, light can be used to gain a tactical advantage in a threatening situation by leveraging you a couple of extra seconds to plan your next course of action when the chips are down. The situation described above was more like a beam shot opportunity and it's a shame you didn't have your tripod and camera handy. :shakehead Honestly, I believe you would have been better off to stand at your doorway or porch with a cell phone to your ear, talking to the police. It's a lot lower profile but still gets the point across.

 

[climberkid]

Dont let them bully you dudemar! that probably would have been my first reaction too, considering what you put up with there. understandable you wanted to try to get back at them. (unless you werent) i look for excuses to use my lights too. as long as you know the possible consequences of situations like that i think you are alright.:candle:

 

[tebore]

Sounds like you need to enact the castle law on them.

 

[Window_Seat]

Sorry you live in a s#|++y neighborhood. I second what some of the others have said, and would immediately call the cops in the future.

I have been debating between the 1500 Lumens AE x25, and the MicroFire K3500, and have been learning lately that many of the HID lights are overrated as far as the number of lumens. This may be the reason you didn't get much of a reaction (other than the choice of words from your suspicious individual).

I once was in a truckstop (my regular dropping point) for my nightly run in CA. An individual approached me and my vehicle sort of rapidly, and he appeared to have an agenda in mind. I had my UltraStinger in my hand, and was doing a pre-trip inspection with it. This is when the UltraStinger came in handy because I was able to get this "character" to back off pretty quick.

According to a video presentation on the Pelican LAPD, one effective technique in temporarily blinding and confusing an individual is to use the light as a strobe effect in their eyes.

Erik.

 

[Ken J. Good]

Strobe lights in police work....

Man I wish I would have thought of that...

 

[dudemar]

Sorry you live in a s#|++y neighborhood. I second what some of the others have said, and would immediately call the cops in the future.

I have been debating between the 1500 Lumens AE x25, and the MicroFire K3500, and have been learning lately that many of the HID lights are overrated as far as the number of lumens. This may be the reason you didn't get much of a reaction (other than the choice of words from your suspicious individual).

I once was in a truckstop (my regular dropping point) for my nightly run in CA. An individual approached me and my vehicle sort of rapidly, and he appeared to have an agenda in mind. I had my UltraStinger in my hand, and was doing a pre-trip inspection with it. This is when the UltraStinger came in handy because I was able to get this "character" to back off pretty quick.

According to a video presentation on the Pelican LAPD, one effective technique in temporarily blinding and confusing an individual is to use the light as a strobe effect in their eyes.

Erik.

Strobe's an option, I'll keep that in mind.

Ken: Were you being sarcastic? Just curious.

 

[IMSabbel]

People are different.

During Karate class, one teacher was really frustrated that arm-bars dont work with me. Even though normally my pain threshold is rather low, i wouldnt feel anything before displacing the shoulder (which should not be done in training).

Same for light. That guy might just notice its damn bright, but decide not to give a poop.
Btw, it that neighbourhood was really shady, wouldnt blasting somebody directly into the eyes, especially with _other_, also shady people standing next to him, not blinded, be _asking_ for a knife or a bullet?