hmmwv
Newly Enlightened
Botach problems censored on surefire\'s page
Well - looks like surefire got some complaints from at least one of their vendors - they now have a "DONT POST DEALER NAMES OR WE'LL CENSOR IT AND DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT" message when you log in.
Since I'd best not post in the surefire discussion group for fear of retaliation, I'll open the topic here - does the manufacturer have any duty or responsibility to protect a retailer who fails to perform and in fact violates the law in terms of their merchant agreement with regard to charging people's credit cards way before shipping product?
I consider this action (on behalf of surefire / laser products) totally irresponsible. If they have a dealer who is not performing, then censorship of user complaints is not the way to solve the problem. Confront the damn dealer and tell them to shape up or ship another product. It seems surefire hasn't got the balls to make their retail outlets take care of the customer.
I wonder if this thread had anything to do with it: I'm copying it here before surefire decides to delete it.
Funny - I got my streamlight batonlight yesterday - and my SL-35x - both of which have restored my faith in streamlight - then the next day surefire pulls this BS - which lowers my opinion of them substantially.
(long thread follows - coppied from surefires forum)
JonSidneyJr
Member
Posts: 18
From:Indiana
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 01-11-2001 08:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sometime ago ordered a 12ZM to have a bright light for around the house or in the car from Botach sometime ago. The person on the phone told me that it was out of stock and that it had been dropshipped by the manufacturer (maybe true but to not belive them). I asked when that had happened and he said that he would have to look it up. The gentleman said that he would call me back in fifteen minutes. About ten days passed and no call. I contacted Botach again, the person with whom I was speaking asked who I had talked to before (I did not know but it sounded like the same person).
I was told again to wait 15 minutes for a call back. That was two days ago, these 15 minute intervals seem long. Botach offers good prices but its not so good when you recieve nothing for your money. The orders that I have placed with LDS have been quick. Beware of who you order from.
IP: Logged
hmmwv
Member
Posts: 18
From:Santa Clara, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-11-2001 08:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Botach has a real problem with inventory / shipping / billing / customer service / telephone skills, etc. Even www.botach.com refuses connections. My first order to them (which was several hundred dollars worth of equipment) was a disaster - like yours - it was several 15min/ 10 days calls.
My assesment of the botach situation is that they have (had) a comprehensive website with EVERY product made by every manufacturer, with really low prices, but they don't stock the majority of what they advertise. They couldn't ship a single item on my order - after several "15 minute" callbacks that took over a week - they revealed that all the items which were "in stock" were acutally ordered *after* I made my order, and wouldn't be shipped until they received the shipment from the manufacturer, over a week later. When I placed the order, they said everything was in stock and would ship the same day. I would have been much better off ordering from a stocking retailer than botach.
The number of people who have posted negative experiences with botach is staggering. Some have had their credit cards charged even though there was no product to ship. One post (I believe it was on candlepowerforums) describes botach's "store" as an old pawn shop that is never open (has no "walk in" service) - which really p***sed me off since one of their excuses as to why they couldn't talk to me was that they were with a customer in the store....
IP: Logged
GhostGroup
Member
Posts: 138
From:brooklyn, ny USA
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 01-11-2001 11:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got my share of 15 min empty promises as well. Although 70% of 95% of the things I have of Surefire were ordered from botachtactical.com. I'd have to admit, thier service was pretty good in the beginning. But recently, I have been having problems as well. I had a bout (4) 15/min promises with no call back. They also charged my credit card for 2 8nx's which I didn't recieve until 3 weeks later. I order 2 day delivery too. Shouldn't they at least waive the shipping charges? Not only was I charged, but they never sent me an e mail confirmation nor a call. Well, a call from them may be too much to ask for, but if you want to be certain, call them and ask if they have them instock. I don't trust ordering on-line anymore with them. At least if you order over the phone, you can get is name and etc. for ref. But thier prices are good. Esp. when things are on sale.
GG
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dano
Member
Posts: 10
From:S.F., Cali.
Registered: Aug 99
posted 01-12-2001 12:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I hear, Botach is actually a pawn shop, in a bad part of L.A....BUT THAT MAY BE JUST A RUMOR...Anyways, there's been too many negatives about the place...
For a shameless plug, I've had plenty of dealings with Lagger-Pro (www.lagger-pro.com). VERY professional, and they offer free ground UPS shipping in the U.S.
--dan
IP: Logged
hmmwv
Member
Posts: 18
From:Santa Clara, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-12-2001 01:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If they *are* a pawn shop, it would explain their poor attitude with customers - but at some point surefire has got to say to their resellers, "HEY! you are selling a QUALITY product - you can't treat customers like dirt and continue to get our deep discount" (obviously surefire is selling to www.botach.com directly otherwise they couldn't advertise such low prices)....,
or else maybe surefire had lots of extra production runs and pawned them all... Nah...
Unfortunately, the botach problem seems to have been going on for quite some time - reviewing the ancient posts from cdpf, there are botach complaints back many months.
Another plug - A while back I put in a large order for surefire/lasergrips to leech enterprises and found them to have everything in stock (even the oddball stuff!) - charge actual shipping - and ship the same day. Problem is - leech doesn't have a website.
So you can have www.botach.com that promises the world and delivers when they get around to it - or leech who has no website, but stocks inventory and ships right away...
IP: Logged
redbird
Junior Member
Posts: 5
From:SW Lower Michigan
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 01-12-2001 03:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read the same negative posts recently. However, my experience is very different. I ordered a G2 and got a order confirmation e-mail in one day saying the order was on it's way. A follow up on the UPS tracking showed it to be delivered on the day promised.
I also ordered a E1 about a week later. It too came through with no problem.
Finally, I ordered another G2 as a gift and it was delivered in about two weeks.
They might have ups and downs but my experience is good.
IP: Logged
Gunfighter
Member
Posts: 12
From:VT
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 01-12-2001 04:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They SUCK period.
I don't even want to start the ranting...
IP: Logged
Windler
Member
Posts: 259
From:Welwyn Garden City, Herts, England
Registered: Jul 99
posted 01-12-2001 10:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My 1st order ages ago was perfect.
I've had hell trying to order ever since, and may not bother trying again.
Alastair
IP: Logged
tvhill13
Junior Member
Posts: 8
From:Mountain Home, ID, USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-12-2001 02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also had problems in the past with Botach. I think the worst is their customer service. I recently placed an order and had no problems. Surprise. I ahd decided not to order through them, and didn't for over a year. The only reason I went back because they offered an item at nearly 50% the price anywhere else. I would buy from them exclusively, due to prices, except for their horrible hit and miss service. They are definately losing alot of my business.
IP: Logged
Erick
Member
Posts: 13
From:Santa Rosa
Registered: Jun 99
posted 01-14-2001 01:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWIW, I've dealt with Botach once but never will again.
IMHO the best folks to deal with for SF stuff is www.lagger-pro.com
I will deal with Wayne without hesitation, he's made a boat load of $$$ off me.
Erick
IP: Logged
Windler
Member
Posts: 259
From:Welwyn Garden City, Herts, England
Registered: Jul 99
posted 01-14-2001 05:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about Tanners?
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Brock
Member
Posts: 27
From:Green Bay, WI. 54311
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 01-14-2001 08:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used Tanners a couple of times, they have always been quick to respond and not to expensive. And the best part I haven't had any problems with them.
Brock
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Well - looks like surefire got some complaints from at least one of their vendors - they now have a "DONT POST DEALER NAMES OR WE'LL CENSOR IT AND DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT" message when you log in.
Since I'd best not post in the surefire discussion group for fear of retaliation, I'll open the topic here - does the manufacturer have any duty or responsibility to protect a retailer who fails to perform and in fact violates the law in terms of their merchant agreement with regard to charging people's credit cards way before shipping product?
I consider this action (on behalf of surefire / laser products) totally irresponsible. If they have a dealer who is not performing, then censorship of user complaints is not the way to solve the problem. Confront the damn dealer and tell them to shape up or ship another product. It seems surefire hasn't got the balls to make their retail outlets take care of the customer.
I wonder if this thread had anything to do with it: I'm copying it here before surefire decides to delete it.
Funny - I got my streamlight batonlight yesterday - and my SL-35x - both of which have restored my faith in streamlight - then the next day surefire pulls this BS - which lowers my opinion of them substantially.
(long thread follows - coppied from surefires forum)
JonSidneyJr
Member
Posts: 18
From:Indiana
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 01-11-2001 08:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sometime ago ordered a 12ZM to have a bright light for around the house or in the car from Botach sometime ago. The person on the phone told me that it was out of stock and that it had been dropshipped by the manufacturer (maybe true but to not belive them). I asked when that had happened and he said that he would have to look it up. The gentleman said that he would call me back in fifteen minutes. About ten days passed and no call. I contacted Botach again, the person with whom I was speaking asked who I had talked to before (I did not know but it sounded like the same person).
I was told again to wait 15 minutes for a call back. That was two days ago, these 15 minute intervals seem long. Botach offers good prices but its not so good when you recieve nothing for your money. The orders that I have placed with LDS have been quick. Beware of who you order from.
IP: Logged
hmmwv
Member
Posts: 18
From:Santa Clara, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-11-2001 08:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Botach has a real problem with inventory / shipping / billing / customer service / telephone skills, etc. Even www.botach.com refuses connections. My first order to them (which was several hundred dollars worth of equipment) was a disaster - like yours - it was several 15min/ 10 days calls.
My assesment of the botach situation is that they have (had) a comprehensive website with EVERY product made by every manufacturer, with really low prices, but they don't stock the majority of what they advertise. They couldn't ship a single item on my order - after several "15 minute" callbacks that took over a week - they revealed that all the items which were "in stock" were acutally ordered *after* I made my order, and wouldn't be shipped until they received the shipment from the manufacturer, over a week later. When I placed the order, they said everything was in stock and would ship the same day. I would have been much better off ordering from a stocking retailer than botach.
The number of people who have posted negative experiences with botach is staggering. Some have had their credit cards charged even though there was no product to ship. One post (I believe it was on candlepowerforums) describes botach's "store" as an old pawn shop that is never open (has no "walk in" service) - which really p***sed me off since one of their excuses as to why they couldn't talk to me was that they were with a customer in the store....
IP: Logged
GhostGroup
Member
Posts: 138
From:brooklyn, ny USA
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 01-11-2001 11:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got my share of 15 min empty promises as well. Although 70% of 95% of the things I have of Surefire were ordered from botachtactical.com. I'd have to admit, thier service was pretty good in the beginning. But recently, I have been having problems as well. I had a bout (4) 15/min promises with no call back. They also charged my credit card for 2 8nx's which I didn't recieve until 3 weeks later. I order 2 day delivery too. Shouldn't they at least waive the shipping charges? Not only was I charged, but they never sent me an e mail confirmation nor a call. Well, a call from them may be too much to ask for, but if you want to be certain, call them and ask if they have them instock. I don't trust ordering on-line anymore with them. At least if you order over the phone, you can get is name and etc. for ref. But thier prices are good. Esp. when things are on sale.
GG
IP: Logged
dano
Member
Posts: 10
From:S.F., Cali.
Registered: Aug 99
posted 01-12-2001 12:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I hear, Botach is actually a pawn shop, in a bad part of L.A....BUT THAT MAY BE JUST A RUMOR...Anyways, there's been too many negatives about the place...
For a shameless plug, I've had plenty of dealings with Lagger-Pro (www.lagger-pro.com). VERY professional, and they offer free ground UPS shipping in the U.S.
--dan
IP: Logged
hmmwv
Member
Posts: 18
From:Santa Clara, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-12-2001 01:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If they *are* a pawn shop, it would explain their poor attitude with customers - but at some point surefire has got to say to their resellers, "HEY! you are selling a QUALITY product - you can't treat customers like dirt and continue to get our deep discount" (obviously surefire is selling to www.botach.com directly otherwise they couldn't advertise such low prices)....,
or else maybe surefire had lots of extra production runs and pawned them all... Nah...
Unfortunately, the botach problem seems to have been going on for quite some time - reviewing the ancient posts from cdpf, there are botach complaints back many months.
Another plug - A while back I put in a large order for surefire/lasergrips to leech enterprises and found them to have everything in stock (even the oddball stuff!) - charge actual shipping - and ship the same day. Problem is - leech doesn't have a website.
So you can have www.botach.com that promises the world and delivers when they get around to it - or leech who has no website, but stocks inventory and ships right away...
IP: Logged
redbird
Junior Member
Posts: 5
From:SW Lower Michigan
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 01-12-2001 03:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read the same negative posts recently. However, my experience is very different. I ordered a G2 and got a order confirmation e-mail in one day saying the order was on it's way. A follow up on the UPS tracking showed it to be delivered on the day promised.
I also ordered a E1 about a week later. It too came through with no problem.
Finally, I ordered another G2 as a gift and it was delivered in about two weeks.
They might have ups and downs but my experience is good.
IP: Logged
Gunfighter
Member
Posts: 12
From:VT
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 01-12-2001 04:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They SUCK period.
I don't even want to start the ranting...
IP: Logged
Windler
Member
Posts: 259
From:Welwyn Garden City, Herts, England
Registered: Jul 99
posted 01-12-2001 10:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My 1st order ages ago was perfect.
I've had hell trying to order ever since, and may not bother trying again.
Alastair
IP: Logged
tvhill13
Junior Member
Posts: 8
From:Mountain Home, ID, USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-12-2001 02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also had problems in the past with Botach. I think the worst is their customer service. I recently placed an order and had no problems. Surprise. I ahd decided not to order through them, and didn't for over a year. The only reason I went back because they offered an item at nearly 50% the price anywhere else. I would buy from them exclusively, due to prices, except for their horrible hit and miss service. They are definately losing alot of my business.
IP: Logged
Erick
Member
Posts: 13
From:Santa Rosa
Registered: Jun 99
posted 01-14-2001 01:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWIW, I've dealt with Botach once but never will again.
IMHO the best folks to deal with for SF stuff is www.lagger-pro.com
I will deal with Wayne without hesitation, he's made a boat load of $$$ off me.
Erick
IP: Logged
Windler
Member
Posts: 259
From:Welwyn Garden City, Herts, England
Registered: Jul 99
posted 01-14-2001 05:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about Tanners?
IP: Logged
Brock
Member
Posts: 27
From:Green Bay, WI. 54311
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 01-14-2001 08:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used Tanners a couple of times, they have always been quick to respond and not to expensive. And the best part I haven't had any problems with them.
Brock
IP: Logged
All times are PST (US)
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Hop to: Select a ForumList of Forums:Hand Held FlashlightsWeapons Mounted SystemsLasersLaw Enforcement/Security IssuesReduced Illumination EngagementsMembers Lounge
Contact Us | Sure-Fire
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c