Bought many $3 Chinese single AA zooms. What am I missing?

[Wendee]

[...] I gotta think I'm missing something. [...] Since these are working for me maybe I shouldn't press for something better.

Hi Needmore,

I had never bought a "good" flashlight until 6 months ago. I have three $3.00 zoomies and three decent 1xAA lights. I can honestly say that for me to even consider comparing my $3.00 zoomies to any of my other AA lights, would just be silly. They're so different, in every way. It wouldn't be a fair comparison. I would have never known, or thought a "good" flashlight was worth the money, if I had never taken the plunge and bought one.

Since you've been on a flashlight forum for 5 years, it's pretty safe to say that you like flashlights. I'm reluctant to say this because it might lead you to be a crazy flashaholic...but...I really think you should save up and buy a good AA flashlight. Not a really expensive one. The ones I have were all under $40.00 (some on sale, some through group buys) so they aren't the fancy expensive kind but they're very good lights. I don't think you'll understand what you're missing unless you actually try one yourself.

Even better, if you're going to buy a decent light, buy a 2xAA (like the Thrunite Archer 2A). I don't think you'll look at your $3.00 zoomies the same way if you try this light.

I hope you do take the plunge and try a decent light because I'd love to hear your impression after using it.

 

[Esko]

As should have been apparent with the winky icon and my comment saying I KNOW I don't get 5000 lumens,

Personally, I don't like dishonest dealers who sell flashlights with these kinds of specs and I don't want to support their businesses by giving them my money. A cheap 100 lumen zoomie AA is totally fine. A 100 lumen zoomie advertised as a 5000 lumen zoomie is not. Even if I personally know the truth.

If you can't compare your lights to anything you know, you can as well calculate the approximate power. Does the light dim noticeably when the batteries are depleted? If not, measure the runtime with a clock. An Eneloop has 2,4 watt hours. The driver efficiency can be, let's say, 85% (with a good quality driver, the efficiency is 90% plus something). Aspheric lenses are inefficient. The further away the lens is from the led, the bigger part of the light misses the lens. Let's say 50%. This gives a combined efficiency of some 43%. Due to the price, the light must have a cheap unbranded led. Let's say 100 lumen/watt.

We get:

2,4 Wh * 100 lm/W * 0,43 / (runtime in hours) = power in lumens

If the runtime was 1 hour: 2,4*10*0,43/1 = 100 lm
If the runtime was 2 hours: 2,4*10*0,43/2 = 50 lm
If the runtime was 0,5 hours: 2,4*10*0,43/0,5 = 200 lm
etc.

 

[Needmore]

WOW! All of a sudden from dark to daylight. Well, I asked and you guys have covered the spectrum (pun intended)! As a couple have mentioned, I did join this forum a few years ago, but did it to gather information mainly. An acquaintance demoed his $150 Surefire for me and I was impressed. After a little research on the net and finding this place I discovered there were reasonably priced alternatives if I didn't require the "best"

For me the $3 zoomies have worked well. My flashlight use is casual, usually needed to light up a dark area, looking for or fixing things, spotting animals and varmits in the yard, etc. With 13 lights and less than $50 invested it's comforting to know there's always one within a few steps and no need to carry on my person. I was a reserve deputy for a few years and carried a much more substantial light on the job.

So what possessed me to start this thread? Armadillos trashed my yard over several nights. I've known my zoomie light was less than adequate at 40 yards when trying to use a rifle scope at night in the dark. Just not enough light on the subject to allow the crosshairs to stand out. After missing two nights in a row I decided something needs to be upgraded, besides me. So back to CPF I've come for more info.

Yesterday and today I've been reading and listening to your comments. I thought I had it figured out that I need a Convoy S3 XM - L2 T6 4C LED - 7135 X 4 BLACK - T6 (4C) with an 18650 battery. With a price nearly 500% higher than my current lites I was sure this would be adequate.:laughing: Of course now I have to invest in a couple more powerful batteries and a charger as well so I could be well on my way to becoming a regular around here. Unfortunately I seem to have discovered the only way to get the Convoy is from China so I've cooled my heels a little on that particular model.

My head is spinning with all these letters, numbers and acronyms you guys talk about so casually, but some of it does stick. I'm pretty sure I will buy a Nitecore DigiD2 charger and go with whatever battery the flashlight mfg. recommends. Still thinkin about lite possibilities. I'm too old to get into flashlights as a hobby and have no plans to upgrade my 13 lights, unless maybe with better batteries if that is even possible, so for now it's all about something brighter at 50 yds.

 

[staticx57]

You can get Convoys domestically from Mountain Electronics.

 

[Wendee]

Or, since you have a bunch of rechargeable AA batteries and the charger, you could start with a light that takes 4xAA batteries, rather than go lithium ion 18650. You'll get the same amount of high lumen output as an 18650 light (1100 lumens, a LOT more than your zoomies!). For more throw, there's the Thrunite TN4A XP-L HI. I have one and it's a good light That way, you don't need to buy a special charger or special 18650 batteries (that you must really learn about before using them, seriously). Or, a Maglite has good throw. I bought one for my husband and it's a great light. It throws as far as my 18650 XP-L HI lights (maybe more). They're a bit bigger though (think two D batteries). If you start there and like what you see, then you can move up to the world of 18650. That's what I would do.

 

[Needmore]

I've ordered a couple protected 18650's and a charger. I thought ordering a flashlight would be the easy part, especially with the Convoy brand, but even Amazon has no sellers with USA inventory. I've tried Mountain Electronics (out of stock) and Gearbest (China only except 1 model w/no mode memory). I'd like to stick with Convoy S3 or S2+. Anyone know of USA internet retailers that have local stock? I need to stick with a single AA sized light for compatibility reasons with my flashlight mount.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I've ordered a couple protected 18650's and a charger. I thought ordering a flashlight would be the easy part, especially with the Convoy brand, but even Amazon has no sellers with USA inventory. I've tried Mountain Electronics (out of stock) and Gearbest (China only except 1 model w/no mode memory). I'd like to stick with Convoy S3 or S2+. Anyone know of USA internet retailers that have local stock? I need to stick with a single AA sized light for compatibility reasons with my flashlight mount.

I've never ordered from them but Fasttech sells the Convoy line and lists almost all models/colors/options of them. The only US dealer that sells any Convoy lights is Mountain Elec. I've been eying the 2+ model myself red with 5000k LED from Fasttech and also get a white and red plastic cone for it too.

 

[Needmore]

I've never ordered from them but Fasttech sells the Convoy line and lists almost all models/colors/options of them. The only US dealer that sells any Convoy lights is Mountain Elec. I've been eying the 2+ model myself red with 5000k LED from Fasttech and also get a white and red plastic cone for it too.

Lynx, Looks like you've spent a lot of time around here. Maybe you can help someone who hasn't. Below are 3 links from Fasttech, an S2+ and two S3's. From a practical usage standpoint would I see much difference depending on which I bought? Main difference I see is each has a different 'bin source' model and the S3's do not indicate what the max lumens are, but the S2+ does. Should I be wary of the lack of lumen specs? I can figure out beam color and other differences (very few), but not sure if the bin source is important or if so in what way?

EDIT (Deleted original links and added link to Chicken's post) Forget it Lynx_Arc. I found a very informative post by Chicken Drumstick that clarified things nicely. And thanks for the Fast Tech site.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399809-Convoys-too-many-freaking-options (see #7)

 

[CoolBreeze135]

I enjoy having a certain level of quality in my tools.

I could certainly get by with a $20 knife, but a $120 knife will have improvements. Even if they cut the same, there will be a difference in durability, quality of materials, level of quality control, fit & finish, extent of customer service, etc... I appreciate all of those bonuses to a certain extent. I won't spend $500 on a knife, but I will spend $100+.

It's almost the same story with lights. I want something I can trust that will serve me well for a long time. To me, it's worth spending $45 on a flashlight to get that, but I wouldn't spend over $100.

Everyone will have a different opinion. I think you should find the compromise between value and quality that you prefer, and not worry too much about what other people have chosen.

 

[irongate]

WOW! All of a sudden from dark to daylight. Well, I asked and you guys have covered the spectrum (pun intended)! As a couple have mentioned, I did join this forum a few years ago, but did it to gather information mainly. An acquaintance demoed his $150 Surefire for me and I was impressed. After a little research on the net and finding this place I discovered there were reasonably priced alternatives if I didn't require the "best"

For me the $3 zoomies have worked well. My flashlight use is casual, usually needed to light up a dark area, looking for or fixing things, spotting animals and varmits in the yard, etc. With 13 lights and less than $50 invested it's comforting to know there's always one within a few steps and no need to carry on my person. I was a reserve deputy for a few years and carried a much more substantial light on the job.

So what possessed me to start this thread? Armadillos trashed my yard over several nights. I've known my zoomie light was less than adequate at 40 yards when trying to use a rifle scope at night in the dark. Just not enough light on the subject to allow the crosshairs to stand out. After missing two nights in a row I decided something needs to be upgraded, besides me. So back to CPF I've come for more info.

Yesterday and today I've been reading and listening to your comments. I thought I had it figured out that I need a Convoy S3 XM - L2 T6 4C LED - 7135 X 4 BLACK - T6 (4C) with an 18650 battery. With a price nearly 500% higher than my current lites I was sure this would be adequate.:laughing: Of course now I have to invest in a couple more powerful batteries and a charger as well so I could be well on my way to becoming a regular around here. Unfortunately I seem to have discovered the only way to get the Convoy is from China so I've cooled my heels a little on that particular model.

My head is spinning with all these letters, numbers and acronyms you guys talk about so casually, but some of it does stick. I'm pretty sure I will buy a Nitecore DigiD2 charger and go with whatever battery the flashlight mfg. recommends. Still thinkin about lite possibilities. I'm too old to get into flashlights as a hobby and have no plans to upgrade my 13 lights, unless maybe with better batteries if that is even possible, so for now it's all about something brighter at 50 yds.

If you are under 66 you are not to old to get into this hobby and enjoy it. You can get a lot of really nice lights for under $50 that will not rob you and will do the job that you are really looking for and you will be surprised of what what they can really do. I was the same way a while ago, having quit a few flashlights but nothing really good until I pop in here and found out what i was missing. It is fun when you retire and start a new hobby or pastime that will not destroy the bank account.

 

[irongate]

I've ordered a couple protected 18650's and a charger. I thought ordering a flashlight would be the easy part, especially with the Convoy brand, but even Amazon has no sellers with USA inventory. I've tried Mountain Electronics (out of stock) and Gearbest (China only except 1 model w/no mode memory). I'd like to stick with Convoy S3 or S2+. Anyone know of USA internet retailers that have local stock? I need to stick with a single AA sized light for compatibility reasons with my flashlight mount.

Got my Convoy S2+ from Amazon-they have always been right on time with every order.

 

[Needmore]

If you are under 66 you are not to old to get into this hobby and enjoy it. You can get a lot of really nice lights for under $50 that will not rob you and will do the job that you are really looking for and you will be surprised of what what they can really do. I was the same way a while ago, having quit a few flashlights but nothing really good until I pop in here and found out what i was missing. It is fun when you retire and start a new hobby or pastime that will not destroy the bank account.

Now I know why I have such a tough time digesting all this flashlight lingo. I missed the cutoff by 8 years.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Lynx, Looks like you've spent a lot of time around here. Maybe you can help someone who hasn't. Below are 3 links from Fasttech, an S2+ and two S3's. From a practical usage standpoint would I see much difference depending on which I bought? Main difference I see is each has a different 'bin source' model and the S3's do not indicate what the max lumens are, but the S2+ does. Should I be wary of the lack of lumen specs? I can figure out beam color and other differences (very few), but not sure if the bin source is important or if so in what way?

EDIT (Deleted original links and added link to Chicken's post) Forget it Lynx_Arc. I found a very informative post by Chicken Drumstick that clarified things nicely. And thanks for the Fast Tech site.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399809-Convoys-too-many-freaking-options (see #7)

I'm not exactly sure of the physical difference between the S2+ and S3 but the S2+ uses an XM-L2 emitter which is slightly more efficient than an XM-L The S2+ is 2mm longer and that may be because of a deeper reflector I'm not really sure. I was interested in the red or green one that has the metal piston tailcap switch.
This is the model in a 2.8A version
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1653/10002364/2060912
I am considering either a 1400 or 2100ma model myself so as to get more runtime on high mode.

 

[Wendee]

Which protected 18650 batteries did you buy and what's the length? If I remember correctly, the reason I didn't buy a Convoy S2+ was because a protected battery wouldn't fit. Same with the other tube style Convoy lights. I did see recently on Convoy AliExpress site that there was a "new" version that now fit protected 18650 (a month ago?). You'll have to check his site and maybe research a bit.
It was months ago that I thought about buying one so maybe they all will fit protected 18650 batteries now, I don't know. It would be a good idea to search the forums for info about battery fitment for these lights. Like I said it was months ago but I'm 99% sure that's why I didn't buy one of the Convoy tube lights. I did buy a Convoy C8 which fits a long protected Orbtronic 18650 with no problem. I just bought a Convoy L6 which must use a new "short" 26650 that's only available at one store (all others are too long). Best to make sure your battery will fit so you aren't disappointed once you get the light.

 

[Illum]

you're not missing anything. tools are tools, when it comes down to it any light capable of use at the time of need is a good light. Its at times of peace and security do I think about upgrading to better lights. Ten years later looking back I wasted a lot of money on lights. When I physically need to use one I have to take the time to choose, and by the the time I got all the parameters correct power usually comes back on.

As with all tools, be it a hi-point, ruger, springfield, or wilson, as long as you are comfortable with them, they are reliable, and you're getting decent range time out of them, you've covered all the basics.

 

[markr6]

If it's a hobby and something you like, of course you're missing out. When I grab a flashlight, I like to KNOW I'm using something with good runtimes, good tint, and something that exceeds my needs.

Of course a $3 light can "do the job". But go to a forum for Corvettes or Mustangs and tell those guys that a used Corolla is good enough and does the job. Yes, it will do the job as well. Just not the way I want it to.

If tools were just tools, everyone would be using the offbrand stuff you can get at Menards or Harbor Freight. $1 wrench vs $10 wrench? That's up to the consumer to decide.

If I wasn't passionate about flashlights, I would just go to Walmart and buy a $10 headlamp and $10 torch, which would probably get me by 99% of the time. But would I enjoy it as much? Absolutely not!

 

[Needmore]

Which protected 18650 batteries did you buy and what's the length? If I remember correctly, the reason I didn't buy a Convoy S2+ was because a protected battery wouldn't fit. Same with the other tube style Convoy lights. I did see recently on Convoy AliExpress site that there was a "new" version that now fit protected 18650 (a month ago?). You'll have to check his site and maybe research a bit.
It was months ago that I thought about buying one so maybe they all will fit protected 18650 batteries now, I don't know. It would be a good idea to search the forums for info about battery fitment for these lights. Like I said it was months ago but I'm 99% sure that's why I didn't buy one of the Convoy tube lights. I did buy a Convoy C8 which fits a long protected Orbtronic 18650 with no problem. I just bought a Convoy L6 which must use a new "short" 26650 that's only available at one store (all others are too long). Best to make sure your battery will fit so you aren't disappointed once you get the light.

You have related perfectly why I have not gotten intimately involved with this site. All I wanted to do is buy one flashlight for a specific purpose at a budget price. Once in awhile I don't mind spending an inordinate amount of time researching each component required to assemble something. In this case it required browsing numerous websites as well as this forum to cobble together enough information to hopefully order an end item where the various parts fit together mechanically and work electronically as expected. I think I have done that properly and ordered last night, but won't be certain for a couple weeks when the light finally arrives from China. If it works then I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I "designed" it and made it happen. If it doesn't I'll complain how much simpler it would have been if there were American internet retailers who had done the legwork and had working 'systems' to deliver to customers in 2 or 3 days (without the inflated American price tag of course.)

To answer your question (after my rant) the battery I chose is a Panasonic NCR18650B Height: 69.75mm±0.5mm. Diameter: 18.57mm±0.5mm. I found no internal case dimensions for the S2+, but Aliexpress says it takes protected or unprotected batteries, if that means anything size wise.

 

[Wendee]

[...]
To answer your question (after my rant) the battery I chose is a Panasonic NCR18650B Height: 69.75mm±0.5mm. Diameter: 18.57mm±0.5mm. I found no internal case dimensions for the S2+, but Aliexpress says it takes protected or unprotected batteries, if that means anything size wise.

Different brands have different lengths. For instance the Eagletac protected 18650 is only 68mm in length (I might buy some of those). My protected Panasonic NCR18650GA batteries are 68.9mm length and won't fit in some flashlights. I don't know why flashlight manufacturers just don't make their lights a couple of millimeters longer so any batteries can be used. It drives me nuts. :hairpull:

Since I was looking at the Convoy S2+ myself a few months ago and since then I saw "now fits protected batteries" on the Convoy site (I don't see that picture now though, maybe because it's old news), I've sent Simon (owner of Convoy) an email asking the maximum length protected battery that can be used in the Convoy S2+. I'll post here once I get a reply.

I have a feeling that your batteries will fit and that you're going to be very happy that you bought the light. You'll probably freak out (in a good way) since you've only used $3.00 zoomie lights (with single AA battery). I can just imagine your reaction when you turn on the Convoy ...lol. I hope you come back and give us an update.

 

[jorn]

The flashlight is not some mm too small, the battery is too big 18650 once did stand for: 18mm diameter 65mm lenght the 0 stands for cylindric shape.

 

[Stereodude]

The flashlight is not some mm too small, the battery is too big

Because the excess length of an 18650 is a new development right? There's no way a flashlight maker could have known about it and factored it into their design. :shakehead