Boycott the A2!!

Albany Tom

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Well, there's economics, and there's business. There are a couple of reasons to raise the price of something. Higher costs of production is one. This doesn't seem likely in this economy. A very high demand is another, so that price is used to limit demand to meet available production. This could be. It's a reasonable argument. Lots of anti-terror funding out there.

Another reason, though, is greed. The vendor believes they can get away with it, that they have a truly unique product that everyone MUST have. This option seems likely to me. It sometimes works for a while, too. Let's not forget another reason - that profits are down and this is seen as a possible way to make up for lost revenue. This is possible, but is usually a downward spiral for a company.

I'm a cynic, so I'll take a bet on the last option. If it holds with the pattern, the next step would be an announcement of reduced support for older models, and a consolidation of accessories and product lines.

I know I'm over simplifying, and leaving out a lot, but there's more of a human/emotional side to business than people may realise. Also, keep in mind that even the government eventually figures out that they're paying too much for something.
 

tkl

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i too am awaiting the competetion. hi ho ken!

sf is getting too big for their britches. my e2e was the last $$'s they'll see from me.
 

Joe Talmadge

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A.T. -- Well, you missed on possible reason besides higher costs of production, higher demand, & greed. In fact, the most likely explanation IMHO is the one I offered: SF's cost structure was based on an expectation of continued strong growth in a strong economy. It's a mis-calculation many companies made. When the economy cools, you re-adjust, by doing things like layoffs (don't know if SF has done that), dropping R&D projects to focus on just a few key projects in your core competency (SF has definitely done that), raising prices on any item you can if you think it won't make demand plummet (SF has done that, too).

So my read is, SF is in a little bit of business trouble, rather than a problem of greed or production costs. 'course, I have no real inside info to base this on. I just like saying it.

Joe
 

Flashlightboy

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Boycott the A2? Sounds pretty silly to me. Other than being a feel good thing to do, what exactly is not buying an A2 going to accomplish?

It might make you feel good because you're standing up to the big company but after you're done with feelings, what will you have attained? Please give me something concrete, not conceptual, that will be accomplished by not buying an A2. Wouldn't it be just as effective to send an e-mail to SF letting know why you're not buying one and letting them know what it will take to have you come back as a customer.

Plasma TVs are expensive. Let's boycott those manufacturers because after all, it's a TV for crying out loud. If you don't like the price wait for it to come down or wait for someone to make a suitable but cheaper alternative. I just don't see the point in boycotting a specific light from a specific manufacturer.

I have no gripe with SF setting a price that they think the market will bear. If Strategos hits the market hard SF might have to re-evaluate their pricing structure.

Something else to keep in mind is that very few people have played with or evaluated a working model. Wouldn't it be better to wait for some reviews before coming down on the product. And even if it isn't everything you want right now, remember that the E series started with the E1 and look what it's evolved into. I don't see the A2 as the end product but rather another step on the continum.

I don't think I'll purchase an A2 because quite frankly, I'm not all that smitten with a combo light. Still, I don't begrudge anyone wishing to spend their money on one.
 

Xrunner

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I agree with Jeff. Note every light is for every person, and not every person is for every light. Some people are bound to dislike the A2 for different reasons (cost, size, etc.), but undoubtedly many will like it.

-Mike
 

Sean

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Originally posted by Viper:
I feel dumb, I looked all over the Surefire Website, and I could only find an A20 and A21, nothing showing an A2.

So I have to ask... whats an A2? and where is it on the surefire website?

Thanks
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The A2 is not available yet. It is in the Surefire catalog though.
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Albany Tom

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Well, people are kinda boycotting plasma TV. Until the price comes down to a lower level, most people won't buy one. Same goes for surefire. It's voting with your wallet.

Joe, agree about the growth. But raising prices to bring up revenue *may* go into a spiral, if that's even what's happening. As prices go up, sales go down, so prices go up more... I wouldn't even speculate on this one, it's just one possible thing that a business can do.

I'd think they must be at least selling what they make to raise prices, though.
 

Carpe Diem

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Originally posted by fc-fire/rescue:
LEDs will be user replaceble. If you don't like original color, you can change it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FC, or anyone else...do you have any more information on this? Thanks.
 

freewheelin'

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I won't be bying an A2 just cause of the price, I own a C3 and am waiting on my M3 but it's just a hobby. I'm not an LEO so my Scorpion and ARC LS1 serve all my needs and carrying both in a pocket of my w/c doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
I EDC my Scorpion & ARC LS1 cause they were cheap(as I use my 123a's in my ARC when my Scorpion dies) and bought my C3 & M3 and am looking for a cheap E1 cause they're cool. I've always said my C3 was too purdy to EDC. I like like lights but everyone has thier limits.
My $0.02
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Sometimes that backfires. If sales are low, companies sometimes raise prices to make up for it. More profit, less turn over.

Most new products are expensive at first not because it cost that much to make but to get the R&D costs back. If you boycott new products because they are expensive, you are boycotting R&D for future products (IMHO).

I'm in for 2.
 

LLLean

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I agree that the A2 is over-priced. A lot of SureFire flashlights are over-priced, in particular the millenium series. So I don't think I'll be getting one. But I think there're people who will still buy them. I bought the C3, E2e, Z2 and two turboheads, and i don't believe i want to buy another SureFire for a while. There're a lot of other good flashlights out there which are not SureFire.

There's one thing i question about the usefulness of the A2. It would appear that the incand portion of it can only be used when the batteries are still fresh (say first 60 min of
incand use). After that, only the LED part is useable, right, because the battery would be too weak to power the incand bulb? If so, then that's not very good. It almost means that the A2 needs new batteries every 60 minutes because after 60 minutes, only the LED part is useable.
 

monanza

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I have been salivating at the thought of regulated incandescents for some time now. The A2, however, is not the light for me at this time. It is not just the price (which is beyond steep). It is simply the fact that the A2 is not the most appropriate medium for regulation (IMHO). At least not as a first offering (Edit - pardon my presumptuousness).

A high current draw 20 min HOLA is where regulation will do the most good, n'est pas? I would rather have seen SF offer retrofits for its higher draw flashlight HOLAs. A completely new regulated flashlight is nice but why not upgrade your existing line to the new standard (and at the same time offer the retrofits to your existing base)?

I can live with paying a $75-85 (MSRP) premium for a regulated M class HOLA but not for an E class HOLA. $40 is more appropriate for the E.

Of course the A2 does offer a secondary canned LED LA but this is not sufficiently attractive to warrant the price.

Cheers.

Edit - It is not my intention to denigrate SF's business model or their product offerings. They provide top notch products and services and I do respect the company and its employees. Competition will hopefully moderate the prices down the line (or not
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).
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

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Uhm....so me and FC are the only ones buying this thing......uhm...... FC...your like a brother to me.........I LOVE YOU MAAAANNNNN!!!!! LOL
 

Size15's

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I'm buying too!

If you'd actually seen an A2, you'd be wanting one too. It's been a while. I can still remember what a SureFire regulated bulb beam looks like...

Al
 

Mr Ted Bear

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I can't understand how so many people can so "no" to light they have never ever seen. The production A2, will be even smaller that previous photographs. That's just for starters....

The A2 is an extremely sophisticated light, not like any other light produced by Sure Fire. When everyone starts "looking under the hood", and sees all the technology employed in it's design etc etc, I think lots of people will think the A2 is a bargin, not over priced
 

monanza

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Oh yeah Al... I think you're onto something. I know I will succumb at some point. I may hem and haw now but I know my obsession/desire can only be contained so long. I just hope it is long enough for some regulation wizardry to come through for other lights (or for the miracle of a price drop to happen). The A2 sure looks special in the pictures I've seen of it. I'm sure the reality dwarfs the pictures though.

Resistance is fertile...
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Edit - Mr Ted Bear, I don't know about over priced but the price is really steep. Sophisticated the A2 is but I can't help but feel that its sophistication is not commensurate with its price.
 

Bad Influence

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Although I don't see a boycott as a solution, I do think that Surefire is charging far too much for some of these lights... I think the E2/E2e is fairly priced given their size compared to the amount of light produced, but the Millenium Series lights, and the A2 are WAY out there in terms of price. Maybe if it was a regulated bulb and LS combo... but even that's a big maybe.

I'm also going to mention that I don't own any Surefires, and doubt that I ever will... PS2 games are cheaper than the cheapest Surefire lights.
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Originally posted by Size15s:
I'm buying too!

If you'd actually seen an A2, you'd be wanting one too. It's been a while. I can still remember what a SureFire regulated bulb beam looks like...

Al
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've noticed that too. Most people do not own the things that they talk bad about. Maybe somehow it is rationalizing in their mind why they don't or can't have it? If you have it and you trash it, that's fine.

I bought that A2 substitute (in another thread) so I can evaluate it and compare it to the A2 when it's released. We'll see how the $40 non SF will hold up against a $200 A2. Should be interesting.
 

Gandalf

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I really think we should send a massage to SureFire and BOYCOTT the A2, until the price is more reasonable. I mean, we're looking at about a 25% price increase in an approx. one year period. BOHICA, indeed. Not me. I have no plans to purchase any new or used SureFire lights in the foreseeable future. I mean, the A2 is in the same price range (approx.) as an M6, when sold at a discount. For 60 lumens, and 3 Nichia LED's? I don't think so.

Could you imagine what would happen to new car sales if the big three raised prices 12% 2 YEARS IN A ROW????

Even if I could afford an A2, which I currently cannot, I simply will not pay $225+ to get the equivalent of an E2, and an Opelec, in one light. The 'digital regulation' of the xenon lamp is , for all intents and purposes, worthless to me.

Lithium 123's put out a relatively flat voltage anyway, so you will likely only see some benefit in the last 10 to 15% of the battery life. The cost for this digital regulation is simply unreasonably high, for what you get from it.

Three LED's are nice, but anyone who has used a Luxeon Star has a hard time using Nichia'a, except when runtime is a significant issue. And for that, at a tiny fraction of the price, we have the Opalec. And it runs 10 hours on 50 cents worth of alkaline AA's. Can't say tat about the A2!

And if the Opalec isn't to your liking, there are now a huge selection of 3/4 Nichia LED lights on the market. A PT Attitude is less than $20! Not regulated, but so what? AAA batteries are cheap!

I paid almost exactly $50, delivered, for a GM E2, a few months after they came out. It works just fine for me. When the batteries start to dim, I put them in my Arc-sLS, or E2/KL1. My Opalec, plus a Mini Maglite, was less than $40. The math here is pretty damn obvious,

JUST SAY NO TO THE OVERPRICED A2!
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