Boycott the A2!!

artar

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Apr 9, 2001
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the A2 is not only OVERPRICED, it has also some design bugs (in my opinion).

I say NO to the A2 and the general price increase of surefire. we here in europe pay twice and more the price what you pay in the us, that is enough.

when the new peli m6 is released and an E2e costs more than 120 € ( 1€ = 1 USD !!!) , i will definitely decide for the peli.
 

MicroE

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Northern NJ, USA
Gandalf---I will NOT buy an A2. The $225 price is INSANE. I carry an E2e with me everywhere and if I lose it I'm out $70US. That would hurt, but I would recover.

If I purchased an A2 I would be so paranoid about keeping an eye on it that it would probably never leave the house! What good is a flashlight if you can't take it with you? Just say no to the A2.---Marc
 

Brock

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Green Bay, WI USA
I hate to say anything and I don't want to upset anyone, but....

I don't think Surefire is making these lights for us (flashlight people). I think they are making them primarily for the military, special ops, and other tactical users, not for us to use because it is a cool light (well maybe me). I will buy one for sure, but only because it is the perfect light for my uses (or the closest thing made to date).

I would think most of the lights Surefire makes are not intended to be used by consumers, I don't think they aren't in the market of competing with Mag, Coleman, Eveready or I doubt even Streamlight. They make specific lights for specific purposes. They are TOOLS used by professionals that we happen to like and get to purchase.

I could be way off maybe they are trying to compete with Mag, and if they are they are WAY over priced, but I don't think so. I would agree that it seems like the A2 is overpriced for what it is, but I don't know how much R&D or anything else went in to this light. Hopefully as digital regulations becomes more common, and I hope it does, the lights will get cheaper.

There I feel better now.

I have to add I am not saying anyone here is wrong, everyone has a right to be upset with what ever they want, that is the beauty of being a free country. To be honest I am glad we all don't like exactly the same lights or this would be a very boring board
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monanza

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SF M6, Mr Ted Bear,

I will only speak for myself in regards to trying out a light before trashing it (I for one would not presume to trash the A2).

Trying out the light will only speak to how it performs. Peformance is only one part of the equation. One really needs to be critical of all aspects of the light including technology, manufacture, and design challenges. I firmly believe, however, that it is up to Sure Fire to make a case for the A2 (in terms of price to performance).

'Maybe somehow it is rationalizing in their mind why they don't or can't have it?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have thought about this and I find that it is the exact opposite of how I feel. I actually need to be convinced to buy it at this price. When I am so convinced (or when I can no longer resist its charm) then I will surely buy it. Based on what I read about the light (and that is sparse enough) I will pass for now.

I expect that Sure Fire has estimated the market potential for the A2 and set what they consider a good price (in view of their R&D and tooling costs). Hell I wish I was in their shoes poised to make good money.
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Come on Sure Fire convince me to buy this light. Failing that give me a retrofit option for my M6's, E2's, and soon to be M2, 3, 4, ...

Edit - OK I looked around and found out about the M2 and C2 digital series. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am happy now. M2D...M2D...M2D... Damn I was so ignorant a few minutes ago
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Quickbeam

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I can't understand how so many people can so "no" to light they have never ever seen.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck, that's easy. $200 for a light you'll be afraid to lose out of your pocket or $35 for a Scorpion, $18 for an Attitude, and a huge pile of batteries...

There is a point where "getting the best/newest gizmo regardless of price just for the sake of having it" enters the realm of complete financial indescretion.

Unfortunately there are a lot of "financially indescrete" people out there to drive this type of market. Also unfortunately, they seem to gravitate toward jobs in the governement that allow them to spend our tax dollars on very expensive things in small packages despite the fact that suitable, less expensive, alternatives exist. Often the product fills a need which doesn't even exist at all or only exists as a result of the marketing strategy creating a percieved need in the mind of the buyers.

It is a sad testimonal to the condition of business ethics that many products with what seem to be unjustifiably high prices appear to be marketed solely for the government agency market, all at the taxpayer's expense.

I have a $200 "inertial impact fastener striking device" for sale. Any takers?

Stepping off the soap box...
 

Carpe Diem

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Originally posted by Surefire M6:
Uhm....so me and FC are the only ones buying this thing......uhm...... FC...your like a brother to me.........I LOVE YOU MAAAANNNNN!!!!! LOL
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Count me in, also, as a buyer! Our family, I believe, will become large with time.
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Josh

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When the time comes I will also buy, New tech is always expensive. I hate to think SF is taking advantage of thinking people will pay anything for a light. 12% increase
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Mr. Blue

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Aug 31, 2001
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what Brock said...these are mission designed lights with flashaholics as an incidental market.

I am not interested in buying an A2, but I don't do pre-flight inspections everyday/night
 

Blikbok

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Apr 10, 2002
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898
Sorry, I have to chime in.

I keep hearing people say that customers are not Surefire's target market. This makes no sense to me. The best parallel I can draw is knives. They are comparable in size, cost, and most "normal" people see no need for a $100 knife *or* a $100 flashlight.

There is a sizeable market selling "Tactical" knives for "Law Enforcement and Military". They stamp these words on the blades. Every dealer is selling a different SEAL knife. How many SEALs can there be? The only soldiers or cops I've met with expensive knives or flashlights have made private purchases-- and they don't have a lot of disposable income. They see the need, discover a superior tool, and purchase it.

I see no difference between SF and these knife companies, except SF has no serious competitor--yet.
 

GJW

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Your knife analogy is pretty accurate but backwards.
When you look in most people's pockets are you more likely to find a $200 Benchmade or a $45 Gerber?
The majority of the "Seal" knives out there are crap made for the ignorant.
The majority of flashlights out there are crap made for the ignorant.
But the quality knife companies just like SureFire have their target audience and it just isn't the man on the street.
 

gtdistributorsaustin

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Dec 4, 2002
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Austin, TX
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
I'm not about to spend $200 for the A-2, but if we can negotiate a group buy for, say, $160, it might be tempting.

Although dang, now that I like at that number -- $160 -- even that seems like an awful lot, in such bad economic times.

My guess is that there are some bad business fundamentals at play here. Like many companies, perhaps SureFire over-extended on R&D during the boom, depending on the hot economy continuing in order to sustain their cost structure. When the economy dropped, they found themselves in a some trouble. Since to many buyers these lights are not a luxury, now they're testing the waters to see how much they can raise the price to help keep them afloat.

If ASP or Streamlight have been thinking about entering this market niche, I'd say the time will never be more ripe, since Surefire's prices are even beginning to frustrate even the "you have to pay more for quality" crowd.

Joe
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The A2 Aviator is a cool LED light. I called Surefire and they said they will start sending these out around Febuary of 2003. We (GT Distributors) do not currently have any in stock and (as Surefire) will not be able to ship them until after Febuary, but we will sell them for $199.95 shipping included to any where in the continental US. I realize this is not the $160 you are looking for, but I hope it helps out some since it is lower and we are able to cover the shipping. If you would like to place an order for one, please feel free to contact our sales department at 800-252-8310.
 

McGizmo

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A couple of comments:

To the original premise of this thread; Boycott the A2: As stated by others, a CPF boycott would likely have no effect on the A2 price. I really don't think CPF members are the target market for this lite. If this were the case, I would expect Derek to be chiming in about right now with some justification on pricing and comments on the sophistication and myriad of components within the A2. Certainly some of us are potential customers for this light but not the target market.

There are other threads going on A2 look alikes or alternatives offered for way less money and being sold by the likes of Lifestyles and others. Comparing these lights to the A2 is an insult to the intelligence of CPFers on certain levels. There is no other light currently like the A2 to my knowledge. Whether the features and merits of the A2 justify the price being asked by SF for the A2 will ultimately be a decision each potential customer must decide. My first 5 function calculator cost me $125 in 1971. This calculator by today's standards would likely appear on a box of cornflakes as a gimick, free of charge. Although there may be no new technology per-se,
employed in the A2, the A2 is certainly a ground breaking application of existing technology. I believe a blown up schematic schowing all of the parts involved in the A2 compared to other flashlights would be a very illuminating example of relative complexities.

Is it possible that we have all awaited the A2 for a year now and the reality of price is a disappointment that we are lashing out at? The A2 will stand or fall on its own merits. It is a specifically designed tool that by no means, is just a flashlight.

BTW, I have seen 3/8" ratchet and socket sets in the hardware store for $3.99. I have comparable Snap-on ratchet sets that cost over $100. Should I boycott Snap-on?

In case it isn't clear, you can count me in on an A2. Do I need one? No On the other hand, it is likely that there are others who do need one and I think it's great that SF can supply their need. To buy or not to buy is always an option.

- Don
 

Joe Talmadge

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Is it possible that we have all awaited the A2 for a year now and the reality of price is a disappointment that we are lashing out at?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't say it's "possible", I'd say it's a certainty! People will calm down once they are able to handle the A2 in person, I bet. Talk of boycotts will fall by the wayside ... but I'll still be holding out for my group buy! I think the talk of boycotts is frustration with Surefire going a bit too far, but I do think that when even the "you have to pay big $$ for quality" people (like me) start getting irritated with SureFire's prices, it shows that Surefire's pricing might be off, and that the time is ripe for a competitor to step in.

BTW, regarding the argument about who SureFire's customers really are, civilian or military ... I think it's pretty well established that if a company has a product that appeals and is available to both civilians and military (like SureFire does), the way to profits is to design for the military, then market that connection for civilian sales. There's just absolutely no way anyone will convince me that all of Surefire's R&D investment in the A-2 is meant primarily for the military/LEO/aviation market.

Joe
 

Quickbeam

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Comparing these lights to the A2 is an insult to the intelligence of CPFers on certain levels.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would disagree. Failing to compare them would do a great disservice to everyone on this forum. The Lifestyles light may fit the niche for all those people who think the A2 pricing is way out of line but want a light with the same basic functionality for a lot less money. Sure it's not HA, Pyrex Lens, etc, but 99% of us don't have a need for these features, especially when it'll cost $160 extra to get them. $160 will buy a lot of batteries (or food, or flowers for your wife, etc)!

If you want an A2, go buy it. I'm voting with my wallet (as someone appropriately said previously).
 

Sean

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Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Surefire M6:
Uhm....so me and FC are the only ones buying this thing......uhm...... FC...your like a brother to me.........I LOVE YOU MAAAANNNNN!!!!! LOL
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Count me in, also, as a buyer! Our family, I believe, will become large with time.
smile.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Count me in too! I've got one pre-ordered already.
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McGizmo

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Doug,

I understand your position and agree with what you have said. I probably should have expounded on my comment where I stated at certain levels. The switching mechanisim from Low to High beam is significantly different. It may not be significant for many but mechanically, there is a big difference! The ability to select your light level quickly and intuitively with the A2 is not matched by the other lights, to my knowledge. Another consideration is beam quality. This may or may not be important and you certainly pay a premium as you start to refine what you are after. I purchased a LifeStyle combo light with 3 red LED's, 3 white LED's and a single incandescent. It was $59.00. I would say it compares to the A2 with about the same level of quality and beam as a Mag AA compares to an E2e. They are all flashlights and they all provide light. My comment on "at certain Levels" is hopefully more clear with the example of comparing an E2e to a Mag AA.

- Don
 

MicroE

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There is no way that the military will be paying $225 US for the A2.

If the SF distributors can buy it at "typical" distributor dicount of 40 percent then the military can buy it (in large quantity) at about $100 US. IMHO, of course.---Marc
 

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
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Originally posted by Brock:
...I don't think Surefire is making these lights for us (flashlight people). I think they are making them primarily for the military, special......
The Ex series is an exception IMO.

Brightnorm
 
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