Bringing new life into a old Mag 3D, with low & high **Beamshots**

Kestrel

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Joined
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Willamette Valley, OR
Edit: A new update at post #15, using the Pelican 3753-H in a Mag 4D, with comparison beamshots.

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A beginners hotwire, including pictures.


A friend of mine (who has a few nicer lights such as a SureFire G2L and a Pelican M6) had an old Mag 3D with half-dead (at least) cells sitting in a closet, so I offered to 'improve' it for him. My goal was to keep costs to a minimum while using bulbs at their rated voltage (no overdrive) – high reliability being a consideration.

The subject:
Mad3D005.jpg


The bulbs:
Mad3D007.jpg

Left: old Mag 3 cell Krypton bulb, 3.6v??, approximate amperage 0.8 A, = ~3 watts.
Center: The new 'low', a generic 4.8v Xenon, 0.375 A, = ~1.8 watts.
Right: The new 'high', a 4.8v Xenon Pelican 3753-H, ~1.8 A, = ~8.5 watts.

The cell configurations:
Mad3D008-1.jpg
Mad3D009-1.jpg

Left: 3 half-dead Duracell D's with expirations of March 2004 and 2005.
Right: 4 new alkaline C's.
Total amp-hours (comparing new cells) goes from 3x12ah= 36 amp-hrs to 4x8ah= 32 amp-hrs in the new configuration (only estimations using (low-drain-rate) numbers from Wikipedia). Edit: I know this isn't the technically correct way to add up the total energy content of this cell stack (that would be in watt-hours), but voltages from alkaline cells under low & high loads can vary quite a bit, creating quite a few caveats with that calculation. I just wanted to illustrate that 4xC could at least be comparable to 3xD in total energy content.
As you can see, I have used a modified tailcap spring instead of the stock Mag 'battery crusher' spring, as the new cell configuration adds an additional 1.5 cm of length. Upon assembly, the spring becomes inverted into the tailcap. Diameter issues were handled with a simple roll of cardboard.

Mad3D011-1.jpg


Beamshots: (distance for both lights and camera are 6 feet)

A ~240 lumen Malkoff M60 that I always use as a benchmark:
Mad3D001.jpg


Before:
Mad3D004.jpg

Information from Mag gives ~75 lumens (initial, from new cells, not these half-dead expired alkalines) for a runtime of approximately 6 hours (runtime taken from Duracell OEM spec sheet, not Mag's rather more optimistic number of 9-10 hrs). Note the horrible beam artifacts, much of which is coming from the pointed bulb.

The new (generic) 'low' bulb, a very rough estimate of ~50 lumens (initial) for a runtime of approximately 18 hours:
Mad3D003.jpg


The new 'high' Pelican bulb, a very rough estimate of ~250 lumens (initial) for a runtime of approximately 1 hour:
(Note the very nice beam shape resulting from the linear filament in the Pelican 3753-H.)
Mad3D002.jpg


(All Mag beamshots were taken with the reflector set to the tightest focus.)

After this very simple upgrade (it doesn't get any simpler than this), I'm hoping my friend will find his Mag a lot more useful now.
 
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Total amp-hours (comparing new cells) goes from 3x12ah= 36 amp-hrs to 4x8ah= 32 amp-hrs in the new configuration (only estimations using (low-drain-rate) numbers from Wikipedia).

One small problem with your math: Amp hours for cells in series are not additive.
 
One small problem with your math: Amp hours for cells in series are not additive.
I just wrote it that way for the simplest possible comparison between the pre- and post-mod capacity, going from 3D to 4C.

I can write it for watt-hours if you'd like but that introduces another error as you probably know: It's difficult to use the total voltage for the cell stack for the watt-hour calculation, as the difference in voltage drops under load should be pretty considerable between the low-amp bulb and the high-amp bulb.

But if it makes folks any happier...
3 D cells: 1.2v x 3 cells x 12 ah = ~43.2 watt-hours
4 C cells: 1.2v x 4 cells x 8 ah = ~38.4 watt-hours

So that's an 11% loss in total energy capacity (watt-hours) compared to the oversimplified amp-hours comparison ...

...

which also, amazingly enough, demonstrated 11% less energy capacity. :ironic:

However, I didn't want to put much effort into that calculation, as the 12 amp-hrs & 8 amp-hrs numbers from Wikipedia used in that calculation were derived from low-draw applications, and will be somewhat less for higher-draw applications such as this one. In the past I have researched CPF for typical amp-hour & watt-hour contents of C & D -sized alkaline cells (for various drain rates) and have come across a range of figures. Silverfox has some pretty good data for Duracell alkaline D cells (9.4 a-h @ 0.5 A, 5.3 a-h @ 1.0 A, 1.5 a-h @ 3.0 A) but nothing for C alkalines.

In addition, looking at SilverFox's data, the voltage from alkaline cells drops pretty substantially during their discharge curve, further complicating an attempt to make a wattage or runtime comparison.
 
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Well, I certainly didn't mean to tick you off. I just thought that if you're writing a "beginners" guide, you may as well get the fundamentals correct.

Regarding cell capacities at various constant current or constant power draws, Duracell has some nice charts on their OEM/Technical site.

LR14 chart

LR20 chart

You could use the constant power graphs to develop more accurate runtime estimates if you'd like.
 
Wow, those Duracell discharge graphs are great!
Thanks a bunch, I have other C alkaline builds and this will be really helpful. :thanks:
Edit: Using the Duracell OEM data, I have calculated more accurate runtimes for all configurations and updated Post #1.
Estimated runtime for the high-current bulb has been particularly hard-hit, alkaline cells have far less capacity when run extremely hard. 🙁
 
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Wow, those Duracell discharge graphs are great!
Thanks a bunch, I have other C alkaline builds and this will be really helpful. :thanks:

Glad to be of help. The charts are a bit out of date, but should still be fairly accurate. I've used them myself when I didn't have time to generate my own data for estimates.
 
Look'n good K.

If they're handy, I would consider also trying the 6.0v high and low bulbs. The 3854-L, for example, seems to do well in every configuration its thrown at. Another pre ROP favorite is a GH24.
 
Love it!

I don't suppose anyone knows how I could get a few of those 3753's to Australia? Google has not been my friend.. :mecry:
 
I plan on ordering a bunch of assorted Pelican bulbs in a few days, I can add a few packs of '3754' (containing a 3753-H and a 3704-L 😕) to my order & ship to Australia (as inexpensively as possible) if you'll cover my cost.

The 4.8v 3753-H is 1.8 amps, and the 3704-L is ~0.8 amps IIRC. Both come paired in a single pack, and are currently on sale for US$8 or so. It's possible that they may run well on 5 cells vs. the 4 cells in this build for a whiter beam, which is something that I'm interested in trying. I'd expect less bulb life, but from what I've read of the Pelican bulbs here on CPF, they are pretty high quality, and I'm pretty certain these aren't driven hard on 4 cells.

Edit: The 3753-H CANNOT be run on 5xC, I tried one and it insta-flashed. 🙁

It's possible that the 3704-L might be overall a better bet for general use on alkaline cells (this bulb should be pretty comparable to the Xenon MagnumStar), I see from the Duracell graphs that the watt-hours from alkaline 'C's are really dropping off at a 1.8 amp drain rate. NiMH is definitely be the way to go for high-drain applications like the -H bulb.

Edit #2: The 3704-L (included in the 3754 package) isn't a very good performer at all, post # 15 has more info.
 
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I plan on ordering a bunch of assorted Pelican bulbs in a few days
Any chance you're planning on experimenting with the Pelican 3804 Big D Alkaline Bulb (2 pack of 8 watt at 7.2v = 1.10A bulbs)? The light is out of production, but the bulbs continue to be available. Not many easy options for overdrive, but an interesting 7.2v bulb falling between the 6 cell MagStar and Pelican 3853-L for current draw.

Somehow, the 3753-H has escaped my notice until now. I wonder how similar it is to the Ikelite 0042.55 bulb? Possibly it would be less demanding on the F cells of a 6 volt lantern battery than on the C alkalines?
 
Newbie question:
Where can I buy those bulbs and how do you make the new modified spring?
The Pelican 3754 pack (3753-H & 3704-L), currently on sale:
https://www.storesonline.com/site/529271/product/Pelican%20%203754%20Bulb%20Set
A CPF thread pointing to the source above:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=199685

I made the shortened spring from an El Cheapo 2D flashlight so I wouldn't have to chop up the Mag spring.

Edit: Just a FYI on the stock # of this bulb. I found that the Pelican info for this item is a little odd, the offical Pelican stock # is 3754, the cardboard backing says 3754, but 3753-H is printed on my -H bulb, and 3704-L is printed on my -L bulb. Just a heads-up if someone is shopping for these bulbs.
 
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Kestrel, PM sent.

FWIW, to fit 4C's in my 3D Mag, I just turned the original spring upside-down. Seems to work perfectly well, just no room for spare bulb anymore.
 
Another comparison, this one on a Mag 4D:

The stock Mag 4D bulb, not bad really. The standard 'Mag' artifacts:

Mag4D01stock.jpg
Mag4D02stock.jpg


The 3704-L (comes in the pack with the 3753-H), not an improvement at all, with even more artifacts than the Mag bulb: (BTW I have not photographed this bulb yet, I haven't really felt the need. It looks sort of like the 3753-H but with a less-uniform glass envelope and a wimpier filament.)

Mag4D03low.jpg
Mag4D04low.jpg


The 3753-H, somewhat of an improvement over the stock Mag 4D, I was hoping for a little more difference, to tell the truth. Overall, a brighter hotspot to my eye and the focused hotspot has less of the usual 'batwing' of the Mag filament, though:

Mag4D05high.jpg
Mag4D06high.jpg



Blowing up two of the pics, before & after:

Stock Mag 4D bulb__________________ Pelican 3753-H
Mag4D02stock-2-1.jpg
Mag4D06high-2-1.jpg


I then tried the 3753-H on 5xC, but unfortunately it 'flashed'. Apparently 4 cells is the limit for this bulb. 🙁

BTW, question, this Mag 4-cell bulb is embossed "Mag+ 4 cell HK 1K2". The Mag 3-cell bulb from the beginning of this thread is "Mag 3 cell HK 18K". Does anybody have an idea if the 4 cell bulb would be a Xenon (MagnumStar), or just a Krypton (WhiteStar)? This 'stock' Mag 4D ~0.8A didn't do that bad at all compared to this Pelican 4.8v 1.8A Xenon, and appeared to outperform the Pelican 4.8v 0.8A Xenon bulb (the 3704-L).
 
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So, would the Mag fitted with a 3753-H be a "Shout of the Pelican?"

It certainly doesn't roar, but it's yelling fairly loudly...
 
BTW, question, this Mag 4-cell bulb is embossed "Mag+ 4 cell HK 1K2". The Mag 3-cell bulb from the beginning of this thread is "Mag 3 cell HK 18K". Does anybody have an idea if the 4 cell bulb would be a Xenon (MagnumStar), or just a Krypton (WhiteStar)? This 'stock' Mag 4D ~0.8A didn't do that bad at all compared to this Pelican 4.8v 1.8A Xenon, and appeared to outperform the Pelican 4.8v 0.8A Xenon bulb.
All MagnumStar Xenons I have seen have a glass envelope that is shaped like the Pelican bulb on the right in the picture below. I don't know if they have always been shaped this way, but I have one that I bought from a small hardware store that was old enough to not have the standard lower edge frosted glass, yet it was still the same narrow, straight walled shape. All WhiteStar Kryptons and all early model standard Krypton Mag bulbs have the globe shaped glass envelope of the left-most Mag bulb in the picture below.

1.8 amps is possibly too much current draw for alkaline C cells, hence the less than expected difference between the 4 cell Mag and the 3753-H.

Mad3D007.jpg
 
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So, would the Mag fitted with a 3753-H be a "Shout of the Pelican?"
It certainly doesn't roar, but it's yelling fairly loudly...
LOL, IMO the ROP gets its name partially because it is so popular on CPF. What I've done is just a pipsqueak hotwire that doesn't even use high-performance cells. Maybe if this bulb catches on, MOP for Murmor of the Pelican (?) :green:, but that would probably just confuse the orange-peel reflector folks. :tinfoil:
All MagnumStar Xenons I have seen have a glass envelope that is shaped like the Pelican bulb on the right in the picture below. I don't know if they have always been shaped this way, but I have one that I bought from a small hardware store that was old enough to not have the standard lower edge frosted glass, yet it was still the same narrow, straight walled shape. All WhiteStar Kryptons and all early model standard Krypton Mag bulbs have the globe shaped glass envelope of the left-most Mag bulb in the picture below.
OK, this stock bulb that I took out of the Mag 4D probably isn't the upgraded Xenon bulb then, its glass envelope looks identical to the stock Krypton Mag bubs. Thanks.
1.8 amps is possibly too much current draw for alkaline C cells, hence the less than expected difference between the 4 cell Mag and the 3753-H.
Good point. (BTW it's alkaline D cells instead of alkaline C's for my more-recent 4D comparison tho.) I will send a free :twothumbs to the first person who posts in this thread using this bulb with 4x NiMH (preferably C's or D's) and compares it to 4x Alkalines (and the stock Mag 4D Bulb) with the same host/reflector. 😉
 
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