Busted At Circuit City
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light_emitting_dude
Flashlight Enthusiast
I would love to hear the officers side of the story.
Carabidae
Newly Enlightened
I know here in california, if you bring somone back into the store or attempt to, youd better have it on video of them stealing something, otherwise your open for lawsuit.
jch79
**Do Not Feed The Vegan**,
I was falsely accused of stealing from a grocery store when I was 17. They thought I stole, of all things, cigarettes (even though I've never been a smoker!), so the manager brought me into the his office and searched me, without ever calling the police or my parents - both of which were big no-no's when you're dealing with a minor! (it was literally the day before my 18th birthday).
My father wasn't retired from the police force yet, and when I came home, he was a bit... upset. He made the grocery store pay me some money (it was something like $200), and made them put an ad in the paper issuing an apology to me!
There were some benefits for having a police officer as a dad! :shrug:
john
My father wasn't retired from the police force yet, and when I came home, he was a bit... upset. He made the grocery store pay me some money (it was something like $200), and made them put an ad in the paper issuing an apology to me!
There were some benefits for having a police officer as a dad! :shrug:
johngeepondy
Flashlight Enthusiast
As he stated, he knew what he was getting into so we'll see what happens. I assume he never shopped at Costco as we know they inspect every receipt at the door. I don't think being asked to show a receipt at the door is an extreme violation of my human rights but of course that's just my opinion.
Lightraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
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- Sep 2, 2004
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I've responded to another thread similar to this situation. And I have seen the massive blowback from an "attitude check" arrest.
Not only do I respect the author of the blog, I might have done the same thing if I were in a particular mood. Circuit City goofed, and so did the police officer. The author could have left without waiting for any officers to arrive.
If the Circuit City people knew for a fact that the author was stealing (or committing any other crime), they could have arrested him, using a limited amount of physical force. However, merely not checking in with private security is not probable cause to arrest.
I despise shoplifters, one of whom murdered a Navy man moonlighting as security at Kmart a mile from my apartment last month. The killer was arrested by good samaritans. However, guards and police are required to know and abide by laws, and constitutional protections--like the 4th amendment. You swear an oath to defend the Constitution, not frigging Circuit City's profit margin.
Not only do I respect the author of the blog, I might have done the same thing if I were in a particular mood. Circuit City goofed, and so did the police officer. The author could have left without waiting for any officers to arrive.
If the Circuit City people knew for a fact that the author was stealing (or committing any other crime), they could have arrested him, using a limited amount of physical force. However, merely not checking in with private security is not probable cause to arrest.
I despise shoplifters, one of whom murdered a Navy man moonlighting as security at Kmart a mile from my apartment last month. The killer was arrested by good samaritans. However, guards and police are required to know and abide by laws, and constitutional protections--like the 4th amendment. You swear an oath to defend the Constitution, not frigging Circuit City's profit margin.
Valpo Hawkeye
Flashlight Enthusiast
What a sucky series of events. It's like the blogger said, his day could have gone much smoother had he complied, but it's his right to only provide name, DOB and address. I'd imagine he'll beat it. I wonder how the cases against the officer and CC will go.
Anyone know what Indiana's laws are on self-ID req's or where I can find them? Also, IN's laws on bag/car inspection would be helpful.
Anyone know what Indiana's laws are on self-ID req's or where I can find them? Also, IN's laws on bag/car inspection would be helpful.
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
OK, here's the deal.
If a law enforcent officer asks for your driver's license, you are supposed to provide it.
If you can't have one, you should have a personal ID card to present instead.
This also applies to peace officers last I heard.
If a store manager, or other private citizen wants to see either, yes you can refuse if you should so desire to.
Don't get into a whizzing match with a law enforcement officer.
You can easily lose. :mecry:
A store manager or other private citizen is another story if you leave soon enough.
If you want to keep coming back to the store later, send over an incident report with copies of the facts to the store manager's boss, or bosse's boss and go from there.
If a law enforcent officer asks for your driver's license, you are supposed to provide it.
If you can't have one, you should have a personal ID card to present instead.
This also applies to peace officers last I heard.
If a store manager, or other private citizen wants to see either, yes you can refuse if you should so desire to.
Don't get into a whizzing match with a law enforcement officer.
You can easily lose.
:mecry:A store manager or other private citizen is another story if you leave soon enough.
If you want to keep coming back to the store later, send over an incident report with copies of the facts to the store manager's boss, or bosse's boss and go from there.
Oddjob
Flashlight Enthusiast
Shoplifting is rampant in many large store where it is fairly easy to walk out with something. Loss of product through shoplifting causes stores to up their prices to make up for lost revenues. Maybe there should have been a publicly posted policy regarding random bag checks.
On some level, is someone standing there asking to see your receipt not similar to walking through the antitheft scanners? Both methods are there to ensure you are leaving with paid merchandise and are there to deter theft. If I feel that I should not be scanned because I lawfully paid for my merchandise do I then walk around the scanners? If someone saw me do that they would immediately be suspicious.
I do not know what really happened because after all it is only one side of the story so I can neither say if it was right or wrong but in the end something has to be done to stop shoplifting because we are all paying for it in the long run.
With regard to what happened with the LEO, I usually comply when asked to do something I think is reasonable. I do not know what the law states about showing ID but I never saw it as an unreasonable request considering that some bad people have been apprehended in this way.
On some level, is someone standing there asking to see your receipt not similar to walking through the antitheft scanners? Both methods are there to ensure you are leaving with paid merchandise and are there to deter theft. If I feel that I should not be scanned because I lawfully paid for my merchandise do I then walk around the scanners? If someone saw me do that they would immediately be suspicious.
I do not know what really happened because after all it is only one side of the story so I can neither say if it was right or wrong but in the end something has to be done to stop shoplifting because we are all paying for it in the long run.
With regard to what happened with the LEO, I usually comply when asked to do something I think is reasonable. I do not know what the law states about showing ID but I never saw it as an unreasonable request considering that some bad people have been apprehended in this way.
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Groundhog66
Banned
Sounds like a lot of trouble for nothing....:shakehead
DonShock
Flashlight Enthusiast
I bookmarked this article about shoplifting a while back because it contained a statistic my parents (who worked at Kmart at the time) had told me about years ago:
"About 47 percent of the dollars lost came from employee theft, while shoplifting accounted for about 32 percent, according to the National Retail Federation report. Administrative errors account for 14 percent, while supplier fraud accounts for 4 percent. The remaining 3 percent is unaccounted for."
The employees steal more than shoplifters but they have the employees checking all their customers, not just the suspected shoplifters? :thinking:
"About 47 percent of the dollars lost came from employee theft, while shoplifting accounted for about 32 percent, according to the National Retail Federation report. Administrative errors account for 14 percent, while supplier fraud accounts for 4 percent. The remaining 3 percent is unaccounted for."
The employees steal more than shoplifters but they have the employees checking all their customers, not just the suspected shoplifters? :thinking:
I've heard in the membership-type stores, like Costco or Sam's club, the rules are different and they can legally search you and detain. Something about it being in the contract when you apply for membership, that you agree to abide by those rules. Anyone know if there's any truth to this rumor? Is this something where they can legally detain you, or just cancel your membership?
Usually, if the store is empty and I'm walking past the security, I'll just wave the receipt and they let me pass. Most of the times I'll still have the reciept in my hand anyway. There have been a few times where I did ignore them and walked right past even when they asked, but only if it's particularly crowded and I'm in a not so friendly mood. I just don't think that after I had to wait in a long line to pay for my stuff, that I should have to wait in an even longer line just to leave the store.
Usually, if the store is empty and I'm walking past the security, I'll just wave the receipt and they let me pass. Most of the times I'll still have the reciept in my hand anyway. There have been a few times where I did ignore them and walked right past even when they asked, but only if it's particularly crowded and I'm in a not so friendly mood. I just don't think that after I had to wait in a long line to pay for my stuff, that I should have to wait in an even longer line just to leave the store.
Brighteyez
Flashlight Enthusiast
Costco checks your receipt against the items in your cart (usually by itme count or cursory inspection.) If they notice an item that the cashier missed ringing up, or notice that you were charged for more items than you have, they will direct you to the register at the membership desk to rectify the error. Your membership does not have any clause that consents to a search of the member. They also mark or punch the receipt so that it cannot be reused to exit the warehouse with merchandise. Items that they do pay particular attention to are cigarettes and any item that comes from their secured merchandise cage.
The times that I have seen shoplifters apprehended in our local Costco warehouses, they have been pretty discrete so as to minimize any interuption to the members who are shopping there.
The times that I have seen shoplifters apprehended in our local Costco warehouses, they have been pretty discrete so as to minimize any interuption to the members who are shopping there.
You cannot waive your constitutional rights via a civil contract.
winston
Enlightened
Don't get into a whizzing match with a law enforcement officer.
You can easily lose.
They know their job better than you know their job. If you have a problem with someone at Circuit City, don't take it out on the cop who shows up to sort it out. By not showing him a driver's license, he was just trying to be a pain in the ***. It wasn't helping him prove his point about the store's policies or the implementation thereof. He was just making a random officer's day a little more difficult. That's lame. I have had many negative encounters with police in my life, but it is counterproductive to f*** with a cop who just wants to get through a shift without too many headaches. Don't give him your license because you are legally required to do so, give it to him because you have no reason *not* to. It's courteous and helpful. If you can't conduct yourself in a courteous and helpful manner, I don't see how you can expect courtesy from others. Yes, police get paid a lot of money. No, that doesn't give you the right to be a d***head to them.
-Winston
acourvil
Enlightened
Last time I checked, Costco was not a government agency. And you can waive rights, subject to some public policy limitations.
greenstuffs
Banned
The guy was being a pain in the @ss i hope he gets what he deserves. He thought he is smart, next time just shop online.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
From the article and comments... There are between 2-7 states where a cop can demand a photo ID--Ohio is not one of them... The best the cop can do is ask for name, address and date of birth (If understand correctly).
And, just a while back, I read a case were a bar would not let a undercover officer into his bar for a customer ID check until the officer produced a driver's license or other ID showing his age (a requirement of his liquor license that everyone who enters is over 21--I presume).... Officer did not have it on him, and eventually the Senior officer got the younger officer in--days later they arrested and jailed the bar owner for obstruction of an officer (not sure about the time line--this may the be same event or an earlier event; "Ryan, whose arrest was thrown out by Judge Katherine Hayes in May, says he was retaliated against in response to critical comments of the police department before a budget vote.").
With Costco, you sign a membership application (PDF File) where you consent to a search at the door--However, I think the limits of their power of authority is that they can revoke your membership.
I am between the customer being a jerk (walking that fine line) with the officer and the officer filing false charge in reprisal (from what I have read--very probable).
The Circuit City, on the other hand, is hosed. They made a false arrest/detainment based on zero evidence--just a local store policy (or misunderstanding of policy/laws) on their limits of authority under the law.
The customer was harassed in some comments for making a false 911 call--IMHO, the customer was correct... He was being illegally detained by store security. Again, zero evidence of shoplifting on the part of the customer--just a store policy trying to prevent cashiers from giving friends a break (which a major reason for Costco's door search policies too).
-Bill
And, just a while back, I read a case were a bar would not let a undercover officer into his bar for a customer ID check until the officer produced a driver's license or other ID showing his age (a requirement of his liquor license that everyone who enters is over 21--I presume).... Officer did not have it on him, and eventually the Senior officer got the younger officer in--days later they arrested and jailed the bar owner for obstruction of an officer (not sure about the time line--this may the be same event or an earlier event; "Ryan, whose arrest was thrown out by Judge Katherine Hayes in May, says he was retaliated against in response to critical comments of the police department before a budget vote.").
With Costco, you sign a membership application (PDF File) where you consent to a search at the door--However, I think the limits of their power of authority is that they can revoke your membership.
I am between the customer being a jerk (walking that fine line) with the officer and the officer filing false charge in reprisal (from what I have read--very probable).
The Circuit City, on the other hand, is hosed. They made a false arrest/detainment based on zero evidence--just a local store policy (or misunderstanding of policy/laws) on their limits of authority under the law.
The customer was harassed in some comments for making a false 911 call--IMHO, the customer was correct... He was being illegally detained by store security. Again, zero evidence of shoplifting on the part of the customer--just a store policy trying to prevent cashiers from giving friends a break (which a major reason for Costco's door search policies too).
-Bill
bitslammer
Enlightened
Just one more reason to avoid the big chain stores. They offer little in terms of knowledgeable staff. Some like Best Buy hassle you for personal info like your phone number, and also try and sell you crap like magazines at the door, and many believe the only way to prevent theft is to hassle all customers at the door.
The small/family businesses are free from most or all of these things.
I still cherish the day I went to best buy before a trip to pickup a camera, SD cards, a new cell phone headset, some PC games, and a few other things that totaled about $450. When I got the register the cashier wanted to take the "free" magazine offer for Sports Illustrated. I said I don't care for sports and he said well we have some others too. I said no.
Then he asked for my phone number and I declined knowing that by giving them that they could then telemarket since I consented.
Finally he wanted to argue that I should take the extended service plan. I was so mad I said "I give up if you won't just ring this up without hasling me for all this stuff I'll take my money somewhere else and walked out. A manger quickly followed me out to the parking lot wanting to know what happened. I explained my displeasure and he replied that the cashier was following store policy. I replied that the store policy just lost him about $450 and he should let corporate know. He just sighed and went back inside muttering his displeasure.
Needless to say I don't shop at Best Buy unless absolutely necessary.
The small/family businesses are free from most or all of these things.
I still cherish the day I went to best buy before a trip to pickup a camera, SD cards, a new cell phone headset, some PC games, and a few other things that totaled about $450. When I got the register the cashier wanted to take the "free" magazine offer for Sports Illustrated. I said I don't care for sports and he said well we have some others too. I said no.
Then he asked for my phone number and I declined knowing that by giving them that they could then telemarket since I consented.
Finally he wanted to argue that I should take the extended service plan. I was so mad I said "I give up if you won't just ring this up without hasling me for all this stuff I'll take my money somewhere else and walked out. A manger quickly followed me out to the parking lot wanting to know what happened. I explained my displeasure and he replied that the cashier was following store policy. I replied that the store policy just lost him about $450 and he should let corporate know. He just sighed and went back inside muttering his displeasure.
Needless to say I don't shop at Best Buy unless absolutely necessary.
