BYD, threat to US automakers or the new VW BUG?

ItnStln

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
87
1711661948949.gif
 

TPA

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
457
Location
Florida
The current Tesla experience is definitely better than other EVs. They have better rapid charge rates, speeds, more charge stations, and better tech. A much more developed infrastructure built out for their owners, but it's proprietary. I believe there's a move to make it more universal. Deals being struck.

I do agree that Tesla is the EV to buy... unless you need repairs, then it's a crapfest here. Even pre-hurricane it was 4-6 weeks for an appointment. They've made progress on this, but I know a few people who've been without their car for weeks because of how bad Tesla's customer service and repair facilities are. I like the Chevy Volt and really like the idea of an EV with gasoline backup generator, BUT...it's a Chevy... and felt like a really cheap car. It was a shame that they didn't move this powertrain to their Cadillacs.

The company that does the digital law library?
Indeed. More details here: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...panies-without-drivers-consent-302089793.html
Best sedan in the world. Refreshed model 3. 138mpge.

Best sedan? Not even close. Quality control is still a problem. What other manufacturer delivers a car without brakes? (https://insideevs.com/news/561545/tesla-model3-missing-brake-pad/)

Then there's the feature set. Practically none of the options in my 2018(!) car were available on the Tesla Model S I was looking to buy, and keep in mind that my car is a 2018 model year, so it's 6 years old.

Extra noise insulation? Nope.
Extra IR reflecting glass and thermal insulation? Nope.
Armor/protection? Nope.
Extra thick glass? Nope.
Android Auto? Nope. (Btw, even Hyundai Sonatas in 2015 had this feature)
Ability to use external navigation and seamlessly integrate into car's own systems? Nope.
OLED displays? Nope.
TV tuner? Nope.
Video input? Nope.
Computer input? Nope.
Wireless keyboard? Nope.
Wireless remote control for entertainment? Nope.
Wireless headphones for entertainment? Nope.
Surround sound? Nope.
Stereo bass? Nope.
Ability to use the car without a monthly/annual subscription to the manufacturer for in-car features? Nope.
Car-to-X communication? Nope.
Ambient lighting? Nope.
Adaptive interior lighting? Nope.
Refrigerator? Nope.
Able to run HVAC full-throttle without affecting range? Nope.
Aromatherapy built-in? Nope.
110v AC outlet? Nope.
Hot stone massage seats? Nope.
Heated Armrests? Nope.
Seats w/adjustable side bolsters? Nope.
Seats w/adjustable seat pan length? Nope.
Seats w/integral airbags in the seat and back for spinal protection? Nope.
Seats w/side-impact protection? Nope
Seats w/extra support for people with prior history of TBI? Nope.
Seats w/soft headrest pillows and laterals for people with prior history of TBI? Nope.
Ability to detect driver has passed out/unresponsive, safely park, and summon help? Nope.
Safety/collision systems can engage BEFORE the accident even occurs? Nope.
Intelligent headlights? Nope.
Animated headlights? Nope.
Cruise control CERTIFIED for full autonomous driving? Nope (Steve Wozniak's still waiting, btw.)
Ability to use cruise control above what the car thinks the speed limit should be? Nope.
Multiple radar sensors on multiple radio bands for cruise control/collision system input? Nope.
Heads-up display? Nope.
360 degree camera? Nope.
Birds-eye view camera? Nope.
Low-level parking sensors to avoid hitting curbs, snow, and other items below the bumper? Nope.
Ability to customize the interior at the factory? Nope.
Ability to customize the exterior at the factory? Nope.
Real physical controls on the interior? Nope.
Ability to adjust the AC without taking your eyes off the road? Nope.
Able to be repaired at a non-manufacturer facility? Nope.
Able to get parts easily and freely, from multiple vendors? Nope.

But... The Tesla lets to change the horn to make fart sounds, so I guess that makes it all of the above null and void, right?
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
479
Location
San Francisco
I do agree that Tesla is the EV to buy... unless you need repairs, then it's a crapfest here. Even pre-hurricane it was 4-6 weeks for an appointment. They've made progress on this, but I know a few people who've been without their car for weeks because of how bad Tesla's customer service and repair facilities are. I like the Chevy Volt and really like the idea of an EV with gasoline backup generator, BUT...it's a Chevy... and felt like a really cheap car. It was a shame that they didn't move this powertrain to their Cadillacs.


Indeed. More details here: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...panies-without-drivers-consent-302089793.html

Best sedan? Not even close. Quality control is still a problem. What other manufacturer delivers a car without brakes? (https://insideevs.com/news/561545/tesla-model3-missing-brake-pad/)

Then there's the feature set. Practically none of the options in my 2018(!) car were available on the Tesla Model S I was looking to buy, and keep in mind that my car is a 2018 model year, so it's 6 years old.

Extra noise insulation? Nope.
Extra IR reflecting glass and thermal insulation? Nope.
Armor/protection? Nope.
Extra thick glass? Nope.
Android Auto? Nope. (Btw, even Hyundai Sonatas in 2015 had this feature)
Ability to use external navigation and seamlessly integrate into car's own systems? Nope.
OLED displays? Nope.
TV tuner? Nope.
Video input? Nope.
Computer input? Nope.
Wireless keyboard? Nope.
Wireless remote control for entertainment? Nope.
Wireless headphones for entertainment? Nope.
Surround sound? Nope.
Stereo bass? Nope.
Ability to use the car without a monthly/annual subscription to the manufacturer for in-car features? Nope.
Car-to-X communication? Nope.
Ambient lighting? Nope.
Adaptive interior lighting? Nope.
Refrigerator? Nope.
Able to run HVAC full-throttle without affecting range? Nope.
Aromatherapy built-in? Nope.
110v AC outlet? Nope.
Hot stone massage seats? Nope.
Heated Armrests? Nope.
Seats w/adjustable side bolsters? Nope.
Seats w/adjustable seat pan length? Nope.
Seats w/integral airbags in the seat and back for spinal protection? Nope.
Seats w/side-impact protection? Nope
Seats w/extra support for people with prior history of TBI? Nope.
Seats w/soft headrest pillows and laterals for people with prior history of TBI? Nope.
Ability to detect driver has passed out/unresponsive, safely park, and summon help? Nope.
Safety/collision systems can engage BEFORE the accident even occurs? Nope.
Intelligent headlights? Nope.
Animated headlights? Nope.
Cruise control CERTIFIED for full autonomous driving? Nope (Steve Wozniak's still waiting, btw.)
Ability to use cruise control above what the car thinks the speed limit should be? Nope.
Multiple radar sensors on multiple radio bands for cruise control/collision system input? Nope.
Heads-up display? Nope.
360 degree camera? Nope.
Birds-eye view camera? Nope.
Low-level parking sensors to avoid hitting curbs, snow, and other items below the bumper? Nope.
Ability to customize the interior at the factory? Nope.
Ability to customize the exterior at the factory? Nope.
Real physical controls on the interior? Nope.
Ability to adjust the AC without taking your eyes off the road? Nope.
Able to be repaired at a non-manufacturer facility? Nope.
Able to get parts easily and freely, from multiple vendors? Nope.

But... The Tesla lets to change the horn to make fart sounds, so I guess that makes it all of the above null and void, right?
I have never heard of some of these items, nor would I need most. You are behind the times. Many of the features you mentioned are on Teslas. If you have Bluetooth, why'd you need Android Auto? The cruise control is adaptive. There is lane centering. Birds eye view when parking. Why would you intentionally break the speed limit. Which can be done. Your FUD is too much to deal with.
 

sim1tti

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
135
This discussion got me thinking that I should revisit the old numbers and methods used to compare our EV and diesel expense. Those charts I shared were from before we really had much experience, used to project what we'd be looking at.

I realize now that a few variables are unaccounted for in the numbers I shared.
  • Diesel costs more now
  • Residential electricity costs more now
  • Charge station rates have gone up since
  • We find ourselves drifting into the higher "Tier 3" rates on our electricity bill when we never did before. This is likely due to charging the car from home.
  • Efficiency loss; the amount of electricity that leaves the outlet in our home is not the same as what gets into the car battery. I'm not sure what is being lost, but it is something.
I'll try to see about updating those charts with some updated figures. Unfortunately it will take a bit of time to monitor the outgoing electricity with a meter while tracking the charge taken at the vehicle. Need those numbers to see what the "Tier 3" use is and what the efficiency loss is.

I'll post something when done. The expectation is that updated figures will show higher costs for both ICEV and EV use, a modestly less favorable picture for EV fuel expense, but EV use still being generally cheaper.

Just goes to show how nuanced all this is.

Fun Fun Fun!
 
Last edited:

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,504
Location
New Mexico, USA
Started last Thursday, this thread about electric vehicles is reaching 800 posts (~270 posts a day). I have read it all; a lot of chaff, some new info but nothing earth shattering.

 

TPA

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
457
Location
Florida
Add one more problem
I have never heard of some of these items, nor would I need most. You are behind the times. Many of the features you mentioned are on Teslas. If you have Bluetooth, why'd you need Android Auto? The cruise control is adaptive. There is lane centering. Birds eye view when parking. Why would you intentionally break the speed limit. Which can be done. Your FUD is too much to deal with.
Bluetooth audio is poor quality with high latency. At least for car implementations, it only supports 2 channel audio. Not sure if the protocol supports more. Bluetooth doesn't offer many control options, just play/stop/ff/rew. Android Auto is so much more than just playing music. Literally everything I can do on my phone I can do on the car. I find having weather radar overlaid on top of the nav maps to be very helpful with our strong thunderstorms here. I just used it today to go around a tornadic cell. Likewise, when driving to the airport I can overlay airplane traffic, my flight plans, weather briefings, METARs and winds aloft along the flight path, etc. If need be, I can even file and change flight plans from the car. I can also pull up recurrent training, which actually is quite good when driving. In hurricane times, it's nice to have the latest weather models and local TV weather updates going.

My car has *full* autonomous, not "adaptive" cruise control or "lane centering". The front has 3 different cameras, 3 separate radar sensors on 2 different radar bands, 4 ultrasonic sensors, sides have ultrasonic sensors and cameras and radar, rear has a camera and 2 radar sensors. MUCH different system than Tesla's. I tried the Tesla and they're placing a lot of faith on a single front-facing radar and camera. I've been able to drive in 0/0 conditions, driving solely by radar.

Birds eye != 360 degree cameras. Talk with the latest Model 3 owners who are upset about how poorly the system works since Tesla cheaped out and omitted the ultrasonic parking sensors on the recent deliveries.

As far as "breaking the speed limit", the cars DO get speed limits wrong. I had this with multiple Tesla test drives, where it'd suddenly, erroneously, go down to 40mph when the speed limit was 70mph. All the Tesla cruise control would let me do at that point was set it to 50mph, which is absolutely dangerous when traffic is doing 75mph-80mph.

Add one more negative: Charging stations require a working cellular network. One of my friends with a Tesla ran into this issue when AT&T barfed last month and wasn't able to charge her car because of it. Gas stations (for now) still take cold hard cash. Gas stations here also don't require grid power to dispense fuel.
 

Bimmerboy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
Messages
2,077
Location
Long Island, NY
Enough with the raising, time for cleaning.
This is the response to praise for machines raising both standard of living and life expectancy for the entire world since the Industrial Revolution.

Think deeply of the implications of those words.

Human nature and free choice be damned.

Debating the tech will get you nowhere.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
479
Location
San Francisco
Hard to argue with 1,200 miles range on sun power, 5 passenger, with trunk.
 
Last edited:

letschat7

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Messages
2,639
Location
West Virginia, North America
Well we all know the news in America is barely more than lies and propaganda. Not that I like EVs I really don't see how building newer products that use so many resources is actually good for the enviroment.

Now using a horse thats fed hay that pulls a wagon made from trees and iron that can all easily break down and go back into the earth is enviromentally friendly. This won't be pushed because you don't need giant industries to produce this. An Amish community could generate the buggy, horse, equipment, and food in a more primative manner.

A lot of this is simply marketing to push a new product to the masses. We would be better off buying locally and having more factories to produce our goods and redo how we have public transportation in a way that doesn't have so many vehicles on the roads.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
479
Location
San Francisco
Well we all know the news in America is barely more than lies and propaganda. Not that I like EVs I really don't see how building newer products that use so many resources is actually good for the enviroment.

Now using a horse thats fed hay that pulls a wagon made from trees and iron that can all easily break down and go back into the earth is enviromentally friendly. This won't be pushed because you don't need giant industries to produce this. An Amish community could generate the buggy, horse, equipment, and food in a more primative manner.

A lot of this is simply marketing to push a new product to the masses. We would be better off buying locally and having more factories to produce our goods and redo how we have public transportation in a way that doesn't have so many vehicles on the roads.
You won't see the Amish visiting their relatives in California. They would have been shunned. Besides it's a 3 month trip by horse. In our society the demand is for inexpensive and clean and fast transportation. The only way to do that and meet clean air standards is with electricity. Someone's going to make money on it. Merica!
 
Last edited:
Top