C9000 NICD odd behavior

Yoda4561

Flashlight Enthusiast
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Well I've had my C9000 for a year or two now, and it's been perfect with any NIMH battery I've used it with, including some very messed up 2500 mAH ones. With Nicads though the behavior has been odd in some cases. Mostly I use it on solar yard lights to refresh or break in 600 mAH nicads , on some of the obviously no-good ones it will seem to refuse to charge, display 125mA rate(regardless of what it's set at) and even after 24 hours will just repeat the same screen on that battery, 125mA, 0.00v, 0 mAH. I assume that's just normal for ruined batteries, the ones still in half decent shape or even not so great shape will charge normally and terminate around 300-500 mAH.

So the ruined batteries finally need replacing and this is where I'm starting to question the c9000 for regular nicad use. I have some Malibu brand yard light batteries, marked NICD 900 mAH. These have been sitting in the garage for a year or so, so I did a break-in charge on them first. I stopped it in the middle of the last cycle on the breakin, because I was in a hurry to get them charged up and didn't much care about the exact capacity. A 600 mA charge rate resulted in all the batteries taking over 1000 mAH in charge, so I terminated it there manually, assumed that they were mislabeled 1200 mAH nimhs and restarted the charge. Two of them terminated at around 1200mAH, the last one held at 1.45v for over 10 minutes and then started to vent a bit of gas, so I pulled it right away. It's sitting in a 1xAA flashlight now and seems to be working perfectly fine. Anyone else have this experience with nicads or knows why the charge wouldn't terminate before venting? Are they just crappy batteries? :shrug:
 
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Can we separate mA and mAh, as it's a bit confusing to understand what you are saying right now?

But it does seem that you have been trying very hard to overcharge your batteries. If you stop a battery in the middle of the last charge cycle of a break-in, it is already quite well charged. And then you tried to charge it again and let it take a 160% overcharge without stopping it? And then you tried to charge it again?

I don't think you should be licensed to own batteries. You should be labeled a battery abuser and disqualified for life :D

It seems like you are seeing missed terminations, which can happen with older or lower quality batteries. You could also go by the voltage on the charger. When the voltage is reading 1.45 V you can be sure the battery is nearly or completely charged.

To proceed from here you should make sure to discharge your batteries before charging them. Use a break-in cycle on the C9000 to find out the true capacity. Then when you do charge them, watch them and stop the charge if they reach more than 120% of capacity without the charger stopping automatically.

Whatever you do, don't keep trying to charge already charged batteries. Overcharging is bad and is a good way to kill batteries.
 
I should just start using C rates or something, will fix the previous ma/mah posts :ohgeez: I certainly hope I didn't get something horribly wrong here. :thinking:The break-in charge is a 3 step process, charge at .1c, discharge, recharge at .1c and then it displays the capacity, I interuppted the break-in during the last recharge with around 190 mAH put into the battery, that should have been perfect for a recharge at normal rates. I'll chalk it up to spotty batteries, I'll need to buy a few more packs for the rest of the old yard lights, hopefully those wont act the same way.
 
Other people have reported that "125mA, 0.00v, 0 mAH" display before now and have assumed it was a fault in the C9000. But perhaps it is some kind of error display for bad batteries...

I don't know why NiCd's would miss termination as they usually have a stronger −∆V signal than NiMH. Even so, I think your 600 mA charge rate might have been too low. For fast charge use a 1000 mA charge rate and don't *****-foot about -- but watch the first time and make sure to intervene if the charge doesn't stop. Alternatively do a 100 mA trickle charge overnight.
 
I think the 125mA charge is some kind of "battery wake up" attempt. There were barely audible charging pulses when only those dead batteries were inserted. Is nicd's maxV 1.45v? I'll be sure to watch and end the charge manually if that's the case. I had assumed that like nimh a 1.45v nicd is somewhat undercharged.
 
1.45 V is close to the maximum for many NiCd and NiMH cells. Some of the newer LSD designs like eneloops can go somewhat higher, but those are more the exception than the norm.
 
Other people have reported that "125mA, 0.00v, 0 mAH" display before now and have assumed it was a fault in the C9000. But perhaps it is some kind of error display for bad batteries...
A good chunk of my solar light NiCds ended up showing HIGH when I tried to charge them on my C9000 after discharging.

Unfortunatly my other chargers seem to be NiMh only chargers, so I can't even try them to see if I can "fix" these.
 
A good chunk of my solar light NiCds ended up showing HIGH when I tried to charge them on my C9000 after discharging.

Unfortunatly my other chargers seem to be NiMh only chargers, so I can't even try them to see if I can "fix" these.
You can charge NiCd on a NiMH charger. It is the opposite you can't do.
 
You can charge NiCd on a NiMH charger. It is the opposite you can't do.
Actually I just went and found my manuals for my other chargers.
One of them specifically says not to charge NiCds, but the other one makes no mention of it so I'll try that one and see if I can ressurect them.
 
The only way you can harm a NiCd cell in a NiMH charger is by overcharging it. For instance a timed overnight charger might be designed for a capacity of about 2000 mAh, and it therefore will overcharge a NiCd with a typical capacity of 800 mAh. However if you check the charging current and manually stop charging as soon as the cell starts feeling warm and/or after about 120% of capacity has been charged everything will be fine.

If you use a smart/fast charger everything should be fine too as long as you do the same manual checks. A smart charger should terminate automatically on -dV, but it doesn't hurt to watch the charger and make sure.
 
C9000 Impedance Check Voltage on *CRAP* Cells...

A good chunk of my solar light NiCds ended up showing HIGH when I tried to charge them on my C9000 after discharging...

What is the C9000 Impedance Check Voltage on these *crap* cells?

...
  • DISCHARGE them @ 100mA on the C9000.
  • Post the voltage from an IMPEDANCE CHECK on the C9000:
    Individually, in Slot #4 (with all other slots empty):

Thanks! :)
 
Re: C9000 Impedance Check Voltage on *CRAP* Cells...

Originally Posted by TakeTheActive



Individually, in Slot #4 (with all other slots empty):
    • Insert a cell.
    • Press ENTER twice.
    • Post the first voltage displayed (GT 1.50VDC).
Thanks! :)

If I have this right to check impedance, after pressing enter twice you are on the default 1000 mah charge? The first volt reading it gives, is the impedance? :)
 
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cells that are stuck at 125ma and zero volts are shorted.common failure mode on nicd and sorta rare on nimh.
 
Re: C9000 Impedance Check Voltage on *CRAP* Cells...

If I have this right to check impedance Check Voltage, after pressing enter twice you are on the default 1000 mA charge? The first voltage reading it gives, is the impedance Check Voltage? :)
Yes and yes (with terminology corrections).

Definition: Wikipedia: Electrical Impedance

The C9000 is momentarily displaying a voltage (in volts) that correlates to an unknown impedance (in ohms) that we can use to roughly gauge a cell's Internal Resistance: Interpreting Maha MH-C9000 Impedance Check Voltage
 
Re: C9000 Impedance Check Voltage on *CRAP* Cells...

  • DISCHARGE them @ 100mA on the C9000.
  • Post the voltage from an IMPEDANCE CHECK on the C9000:
Individually, in Slot #4 (with all other slots empty):​
Insert a cell.
Press ENTER twice.
Post the first voltage displayed (GT 1.50VDC).​
Why do i have to discharge first? In
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...8-How-to-mark-batteries&p=3231265#post3231265
you seem to measure the ICV also on full batteries.

Is there a reason why to slot #4? And why the other slots should be empty?
 
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