Can my OCD handle M91T on MD2 body?

[thermal guy]

Look at the heads separately and choose the body you want. You don't want the 18650 WC or hound dog on anything other than a MD2 or the 21700. They cannot take more than 6 volts. You put them heads on a MD3 with 3 cells and you will blow the head. You can run the super or the regular WC on any body but to get full power you need like 9 volts.

 

[thermal guy]

Gene offers a 18650 WC and hound dog because they're shorter and easier to carry. They put out as much as the regular version but only for awhile then they dip way down in output whereas the regular versions hold full power till the batteries are done. That all make sense?

 

[kerneldrop]

Wow how did I miss the importance of optimal voltages for each head?

We gotta build a foundation for you to build on. There may be some misconceptions and misunderstandings that are throwing a wrench in your hard-use full-send max output plan. So this will be the redneck way....a lumen scientist will probably disagree but they won't win in a duel so animal kingdom rules win.

Think of light as energy being used/consumed, with heat being the unused energy.
Energy is supplied by the battery. The brighter an LED the more energy is being consumed. The more energy being consumed the more heat being generated. Heat eventually kills all LEDs...Malkoff lights have more conservative outputs for durability, reliability and longevity.

The theoretical brightness of an LED can be calculated and is given in all LED datasheets. There's nothing magical about it... if you send a certain amount of current (mah) to the LED the LED will respond with X lumens. The larger the LED footprint the more lumens and more flood the beam will be. The smaller the LED the less bright but the more throwy the beam will be. I'll post to the M91T datasheet below.

There's no such thing as optimal voltage. There's just a voltage range where you go from working to frying
There's a minimum amount of voltage it takes to light up the LED, there's a minimum amount of voltage it takes to "turn on" the driver.
There's a maximum amount of voltage an LED can take before frying, there's a maximum amount of voltage the driver can handle before frying. I can touch an LED with an ohm meter and power up the LED, or I can touch an LED with a 3v CR123 battery and make it as bright as the sun.

Elzetta and Malkoff LEDs are 3v LEDs. That means only 3 volts go to the LED, regardless how many batteries or what the voltage is.
So a 9-14v driver simply takes multiple batteries and limits the voltage to 3v at the LED. More than 14v and the resister on the driver fries.
So there's not really optimal per se....you match the output to what you need and for how long.

The formula we use is: Watts = Volts x mah
From here we can calculate estimated runtime based on how many volts we're using.
Think of Volts as light intensity and current as the rate of flow of the intensity....how long it can be sustained.
Volts "pushe" the current.
The less volts we have the more current we need, the more current we have, the less volts we need. They work together.


Malkoff drivers are regulated -- at least most if not all -- so that means within a voltage range the brightness will be the same. Eventually as the batteries grow weaker the regulated output goes out of regulation and the light just simple dims as you use it until there's not enough power to "turn on" the driver. At that point the driver won't send signal to the LED. This is just with Malkoff and Elzetta. There's many other driver designs.

Here's a great explanation of the eyes detecting brightness by Henry at HDS

Malkoff's M91T is around 1250mah...so you can see how the light shines at an estimated 750 lumens.

M61Hot will serve you well.

 

[LED1982]

We gotta build a foundation for you to build on. There may be some misconceptions and misunderstandings that are throwing a wrench in your hard-use full-send max output plan. So this will be the redneck way....a lumen scientist will probably disagree but they won't win in a duel so animal kingdom rules win.

Think of light as energy being used/consumed, with heat being the unused energy.
Energy is supplied by the battery. The brighter an LED the more energy is being consumed. The more energy being consumed the more heat being generated. Heat eventually kills all LEDs...Malkoff lights have more conservative outputs for durability, reliability and longevity.

The theoretical brightness of an LED can be calculated and is given in all LED datasheets. There's nothing magical about it... if you send a certain amount of current (mah) to the LED the LED will respond with X lumens. The larger the LED footprint the more lumens and more flood the beam will be. The smaller the LED the less bright but the more throwy the beam will be. I'll post to the M91T datasheet below.

There's no such thing as optimal voltage. There's just a voltage range where you go from working to frying
There's a minimum amount of voltage it takes to light up the LED, there's a minimum amount of voltage it takes to "turn on" the driver.
There's a maximum amount of voltage an LED can take before frying, there's a maximum amount of voltage the driver can handle before frying. I can touch an LED with an ohm meter and power up the LED, or I can touch an LED with a 3v CR123 battery and make it as bright as the sun.

Elzetta and Malkoff LEDs are 3v LEDs. That means only 3 volts go to the LED, regardless how many batteries or what the voltage is.
So a 9-14v driver simply takes multiple batteries and limits the voltage to 3v at the LED. More than 14v and the resister on the driver fries.
So there's not really optimal per se....you match the output to what you need and for how long.

The formula we use is: Watts = Volts x mah
From here we can calculate estimated runtime based on how many volts we're using.
Think of Volts as light intensity and current as the rate of flow of the intensity....how long it can be sustained.
Volts "pushe" the current.
The less volts we have the more current we need, the more current we have, the less volts we need. They work together.


Malkoff drivers are regulated -- at least most if not all -- so that means within a voltage range the brightness will be the same. Eventually as the batteries grow weaker the regulated output goes out of regulation and the light just simple dims as you use it until there's not enough power to "turn on" the driver. At that point the driver won't send signal to the LED. This is just with Malkoff and Elzetta. There's many other driver designs.

Here's a great explanation of the eyes detecting brightness by Henry at HDS
View attachment 33949


Malkoff's M91T is around 1250mah...so you can see how the light shines at an estimated 750 lumens.
View attachment 33950

M61Hot will serve you well.

Great stuff!! But if in every application for a certain Malkoff or Elzetta light you are getting 3v to it (period, the end), why do they talk about better or worse outputs (CR123s vs 18650, or MD4 vs MD2, etc)?

I'm starting to lean towards getting the Malkoff MD2 365nm UV, and adding an M61HOT Head only (I can then swap back & forth and have an EDC thrower plus a UV light too), and also adding an MD21700 body which would give me better runtime for either one. I know I said I don't care too much about runtime, but that doesn't mean it's not a bonus, also the beefiness of MD21700 sounds pretty nice according to reviews.

The only thing holding me back from placing this order is that I suffer from an "I NEED INSANE POWER" disorder lol. I honestly want super hound dogs and M91Ts just because power is more fun.

 

[LED1982]

DONE!! Order placed, thanks for everyone's help. In the end I decided that Elzetta and Malkoff's forte is NOT about power, it's about durability that could survive a nuclear apocalypse lol, so I let go of the Super Hound Dog and Wildcat and M91T. I focused on form factor instead, and figured that if I want stupid power then I'll focus on a different company that specializes in power..

I went with the M61HOT, the MD2 365nm UV, the HD Green Head since it too is formatted for the M2 configuration, lol and screw it I even bought the Elzetta Charlie HC 453 as well Haha. I'll let the "Durability Kings" dominate the durability realm, and if I want "Power" I'll focus on someone who specializes in raw power instead of buying the most powerful option from the company that isn't even about power. I totally get it that Malkoff fans will disagree with that logic (and I must admit that HD Super is nice as hell!!) but so be it to each their own! Thanks again for the help.

 

[neutralwhite]

Malkoff is for hard-users that use their flashlights as battering rams to break door jams and smash through laminated windows.
I use mine to make arrow heads out of Arkansas diamonds
@knucklegary uses his as a shark deterrent during night surfing

are you from Arkansas. ?

 

[knucklegary]

@kerneldrop rides the rapids in the Ar-Kansas river

 

[knucklegary]

DONE!! Order placed, thanks for everyone's help. In the end I decided that Elzetta and Malkoff's forte is NOT about power, it's about durability that could survive a nuclear apocalypse lol, so I let go of the Super Hound Dog and Wildcat and M91T. I focused on form factor instead, and figured that if I want stupid power then I'll focus on a different company that specializes in power..

I went with the M61HOT, the MD2 365nm UV, the HD Green Head since it too is formatted for the M2 configuration, lol and screw it I even bought the Elzetta Charlie HC 453 as well Haha. I'll let the "Durability Kings" dominate the durability realm, and if I want "Power" I'll focus on someone who specializes in raw power instead of buying the most powerful option from the company that isn't even about power. I totally get it that Malkoff fans will disagree with that logic (and I must admit that HD Super is nice as hell!!) but so be it to each their own! Thanks again for the help.

That's a nice grouping of flashlights, should keep you occupied for awhile..
What plans do you have for the HD "green" hunting?

 

[kerneldrop]

But if in every application for a certain Malkoff or Elzetta light you are getting 3v to it (period, the end), why do they talk about better or worse outputs (CR123s vs 18650, or MD4 vs MD2, etc)?

Outputs will differ because the LEDs differ, and there's a different amount of current flowing to the LED based on the driver Gene uses.
Otherwise they will be same as long as they are within the driver regulation volts.

From what I understand the output is the exact same when you put an M61 head on an MD2, MD3, MD4 so long as it's within regulation specs.

 

[LED1982]

That's a nice grouping of flashlights, should keep you occupied for awhile..
What plans do you have for the HD "green" hunting?

I'm just trying to make my different lights be pretty distinct from each other to cover different bases, not that redundancy is bad, to each their own. Green light just for fun, try to spot nocturnal animals while camping or wherever, It's even just cool looking at the green beam shot pics, the pics kept making me want one. I still like power to a certain degrees, but I feel like I'm falling out of my stage where it's all about MORE lumens and/or candela. Variety and tank like durability seems to be tugging at me this time around.

BTW, here I was pitting Malkoff and Elzetta against each other as if they're direct competitors, then next thing I know I came against a few pics of Elzetta flashlights with "Malkoff" written on them! Not sure what that's all about but ok. Yeah I also bought an Elzetta Charlie with the HC Head.

I did own an Elzetta Bravo before, and I must admit that it was an interesting feeling when I dropped it off a roof one day, what was interesting was the feeling of how nothing felt wrong (besides me having to walk down and get it). No cringing, or wondering if I broke it.

 

[etc]

My M91T, don't know which rev it is, likely not the latest, doesn't power at all in an MD2.

M61T is a better match for the MD2 overall and runs on full power.

 

[LED1982]

My M91T, don't know which rev it is, likely not the latest, doesn't power at all in an MD2.

M61T is a better match for the MD2 overall and runs on full power.

Yeah I wound up going with the M61HOT over M91T. Do you have a Hound Dog or Wildcat? It's funny that the Hound Dog Super was the #1 thing that I wanted, but then I didn't even wind up getting it, I based everything around MD2. But at first I didn't know that HD Super doesn't have full output on MD2.

 

[kerneldrop]

But at first I didn't know that HD Super doesn't have full output on MD2.

You can get full output on HD Super with MD2 body by using (2)*16340 batteries.

 

[fulee9999]

BTW, here I was pitting Malkoff and Elzetta against each other as if they're direct competitors, then next thing I know I came against a few pics of Elzetta flashlights with "Malkoff" written on them! Not sure what that's all about but ok.

Malkoff worked with Elzetta about a decade ago, they created the Elzetta ZFL-M60, the best flashlight from Elzetta ever, and one of the best out there is. Sadly it's no longer in production, but it's still very well regarded. The party trick of that light is that it's a stock Elzetta Bravo, but it can host a Malkoff M60 sized drop-in.

Here's my comparison between the Bravo and the ZFL M60:

Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

Well yes and no. The elzetta tail will screw onto a malkoff body but only a few turns. You have like a 1/4 inch gap. Not sure if it’s waterproof at that point. I had a PowerTac Warrior tailcap on my Alpha 315 for a while. It has a button for on/off and a side button with 4 levels, strobe and...

www.candlepowerforums.com

 

[LED1982]

Malkoff worked with Elzetta about a decade ago, they created the Elzetta ZFL-M60, the best flashlight from Elzetta ever, and one of the best out there is. Sadly it's no longer in production, but it's still very well regarded. The party trick of that light is that it's a stock Elzetta Bravo, but it can host a Malkoff M60 sized drop-in.

Here's my comparison between the Bravo and the ZFL M60:

Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

Well yes and no. The elzetta tail will screw onto a malkoff body but only a few turns. You have like a 1/4 inch gap. Not sure if it’s waterproof at that point. I had a PowerTac Warrior tailcap on my Alpha 315 for a while. It has a button for on/off and a side button with 4 levels, strobe and...

www.candlepowerforums.com

You know what, I think that I will give in and admit that Malkoff is the better move (especially with the rich interchangeability)…so it's funny timing but they just now got the option back to just order the heads of Super Hound Dog and Wildcat, instead of having to buy the whole thing (I'm just not a fan of MD4 length). So I'm gonna return the Elzetta Charlie, and instead I just also ordered those two heads along with the MD3 body. My Malkoff collection is growing!! Thanks for converting me to the cult lol.

 

[LED1982]

That was funny, I just read my own post from 5 years ago when I owned the Hound Dog Super for about 2 hours, then sold it in here. I was totally obsessed with power then (had Deft-X, and a Lemax LX70 Superpower). I was complaining about how Hound Dog Super is too big to be so pathetically weak lol. Well the power craze fizzled out for me since then. I have seen some passing comments in here that mentioned something similar, how other members also had a power phase, then moved into more of a bombproof durability phase. Not that Deft-X and Lemax aren't very high quality, but they aren't "Drop off a roof, no problem at all" durable.

Hound Dog Super IS powerful, but not compared to the lights in the lumen & candela wars.

 

[kerneldrop]

Hound Dog Super IS powerful, but not compared to the lights in the lumen & candela wars.

There's only so much light that can come from a 3535 footprint single LED. The chinese lights with all these lumens just have multiple LEDs, or use a larger LED. But with larger LED comes less candela and way more heat

 

[fulee9999]

There's only so much light that can come from a 3535 footprint single LED. The chinese lights with all these lumens just have multiple LEDs, or use a larger LED. But with larger LED comes less candela and way more heat

or you can overdrive them, but then you'd need thermal regulation and stepdown, so realistically you'd have the same amount of output after 2-3 minutes