Can someone explain to me the use of a light that makes <10 lumens?

[deusexaethera]

A few weeks ago I read some posts on cpf about how useful candles are. While I'm not a candle guy the light from them was thought to be so useful that a huge, worldwide industry was built around them that lasted for hundreds of years.

The fact that most don't understand dim light culture has never stopped manufacturers from continuing to make them and the broad range of usefullness of this class of lights keeps people searching them out and paying good money for them. Additionally the use of these lights does not seem to be impaired by the lack of understanding of so many. In fact, many continue to buy dim lights even as our ability to make brighter and brighter lights keeps increasing with every year.

I had a girlfriend once who had a thing for candles. I won't get into detail, but there were certain circumstances in which she preferred nothing but candlelight. I eventually had to have a talk with her in which I explained that 1. I'm nearsighted, 2. I like to see what's going on, and 3. in order for #1 and #2 to work with candles, they would have to be in such close proximity as to pose a fire hazard. Eventually she conceded the use of a single table lamp in addition, and all was well.

It is also true that you actually pay money for the services of others partly for their expertise in hiding from you what they do with their dim lights. And they love that aspect of the relationship.

If you're talking about cops and spies, yes, I already acknowledged those situations, with the qualification that I (but not necessarily everyone I'm close to) will never be in those situations.

To go off-topic a little bit: I do not pay them to conceal from me what they do with those dim lights, to whatever extent doesn't endanger them anyway, and I don't care if they like keeping everything a secret. There is a difference between need-to-know and need-to-conceal.

 

[deusexaethera]

Also, I'd like to add that humans existed for about 200,000 years prior to the invention of the flashlight. They all did just fine. Explain to me why you NEED a flashlight, and I'll show you how those are just EXCUSES to use one. Progress, schmogress.

If you call getting mauled to death by a predator when you get up to take a leak in the middle of the night "doing just fine", then yes, your argument is quite sound.

That being said, 6 billion people is a bit much.

 

[Saint_Dogbert]

It's a measure of light intensity at or passing through a point on a surface. Basically, a way to measure throw.

 

[deusexaethera]

I know, I know: "If you don't like multi-modes, it's just because you've never used one with a good UI!" But since I haven't yet, I don't like them yet. 😛

Check out the Fenix P2D. You need dim? Hit the switch. You need bright? Tighten the bezel and hit the switch. You don't know what you need? Hit the switch until it's bright enough.

 

[deusexaethera]

It's a measure of light intensity at or passing through a point on a surface. Basically, a way to measure throw.

That's the same definition as candlepower, from what I've seen.

Or is it an "out the front" measurement, as opposed to a measurement with no optics involved?

 

[deranged_coder]

What is lux, again?

Wikipedia - Lux
Newbie Q: Lux vs Lumens vs candlepower

My understanding (others, please feel to correct me if I have misunderstood) is that lux refers to the amount of light falling into a specific point whereas lumens refers to the total amount of light put out by the light source. Hence a laser, wherein the light is focused into a very thin beam, could have high lux but low lumens and a flood light could have low lux but high lumens.

 

[f22shift]

i'm curious. would a 10 lumen red light save more night vision than a .5lumen white led.

is it the color or output..

 

[DHart]

Wikipedia - Lux
Newbie Q: Lux vs Lumens vs candlepower

My understanding (others, please feel to correct me if I have misunderstood) is that lux refers to the amount of light falling into a specific point whereas lumens refers to the total amount of light put out by the light source. Hence a laser, wherein the light is focused into a very thin beam, could have high lux but low lumens and a flood light could have low lux but high lumens.

Yes, as BullzeyeBill indicates, lux on a Surefire TIR optic can be high (because of how the optic focuses the LED's output) relative to the light's lumen value. This is why "ceiling bounce" light measurements can be helpful in determining relative overall illuminance. And why some lights should be designated as "throwers" and others "flooders" and these different quality lights should not necessarily be compared strictly on a basis of "lumens".

 

[deranged_coder]

Yes, as BullzeyeBill indicates, lux on a Surefire TIR optic can be high (because of how the optic focuses the LED's output) relative to the light's lumen value. This is why "ceiling bounce" light measurements can be helpful in determining relative overall illuminance. And why some lights should be designated as "throwers" and others "flooders" and these different quality lights should not necessarily be compared strictly on a basis of "lumens".

Indeed, the fact that different lights have different beam profiles is another reason why simply playing the numbers game (e.g. light A has 100 lumens while light B has 150 lumens ergo light B is better) is not the best idea when determining which flashlight is "better". 🙂

 

[jaundice]

1) being single has nothing to do with it, because I can see my way to the bathroom in the dark, regardless of anyone else's presence.
2) you'll need to explain what age has to do with it.
3) you let your kids keep toys on the floor in the master bedroom?

I'm trying to relate all of this to why you need a light to go to the bathroom at night, because that's the post you responded to.

In response:

1) when you've been married for a double-digit number of years, eating home cooking every night, your old lady will stop putting up with any of your bull$*#%, and you'll start being a little more careful about not waking her up. While you may be able to see your way to the can, in previous posts, you mention just turning on the lights. You wife will quickly put a stop to that.

2) after about age 40, you'll start getting up to go to the bathroom a lot more often than you do now. Your vision will get worse, too, so a little more light will help.

3) I don't "let" my kids keep their toys in my bedroom, but they're kids, so you'll find stuff strewn in the most random places. And I'll tell you what, stepping on a small lego piece buried in the carpet in bare feet will make you say naughty words.

Thus, I, and others here, use low-level lights to navigate around the house. I've used a streamlight stylus, and now have a lighthound fauxton.

Cheers,

-John

 

[jaundice]

If you call getting mauled to death by a predator when you get up to take a leak in the middle of the night "doing just fine", then yes, your argument is quite sound.

That being said, 6 billion people is a bit much.

So you're saying that a flashlight is all the keeps you from getting mauled to death by predators when you get up to take a leak at night? I guess you do NEED one, then. Progress, indeed!

I'll kindly bow out of this discussion to let the thread wander back on course.

-John

 

[Southernlight]

No matter how good your night vision, it only takes tripping once on toys and smacking your shin to realize it's good to use a dim light to navigate through the house at night.

+1 me and

+1 for my wife :candle:

 

[csshih]

Forgive me for repeating what some have already said but I'll list a few reasons.

-- waking up others can be bad. Spouses and children are bad enough but in a combat zone not only is it a poor idea to alert the opposition to your movements but makes you a wee bit unpopular with your own troops (even more so if they see your too bright light when on patrol then when they are sleeping).

:lolsign::lolsign:

 

[Phaserburn]

Also, I'd like to add that humans existed for about 200,000 years prior to the invention of the flashlight. They all did just fine.

Untrue! What is true is that there is a direct correlation to average human lifespan and flashlight technological progress. The better the lights become, the longer we live.

Yes, yes, I know. "Correlation doesn't imply causation". Don't harsh my buzz, ok?

😎

 

[Marduke]

I love my proton pro for its ~0.5 lumen low on white! although i wish they had used an OP reflector to smoothen out the beam and i wouldnt might it going even lower!

Try a little satin finish scotch tape. It smooth the beam right out. If you want pure flood, the same bottle cap diffuser trick that works for the D10 works for the Pro.

1) being single has nothing to do with it, because I can see my way to the bathroom in the dark, regardless of anyone else's presence.
2) you'll need to explain what age has to do with it.
3) you let your kids keep toys on the floor in the master bedroom?

I'm trying to relate all of this to why you need a light to go to the bathroom at night, because that's the post you responded to.

1) single, you don't have to worry about disturbing anyone. married, do you really want to turn 3000lumens of overhead light in the bedroom at 2am just because you need a little light to see something? I'd love to hear the ensuing tongue lashing...
2) eyesight gets worse with age
3) all it takes is one piece of ANYTHING which is out of place from your memorized version of the house, and stepping on it or smacking into it will fix that attitude.

i'm curious. would a 10 lumen red light save more night vision than a .5lumen white led.

is it the color or output..

It's both. I know you can use more red than white to maintain the equivalant level of night adapted vision. Not sure on what the exact ratio is though...

 

[Brad]

In response:

1) when you've been married for a double-digit number of years, eating home cooking every night, your old lady will stop putting up with any of your bull$*#%, and you'll start being a little more careful about not waking her up. While you may be able to see your way to the can, in previous posts, you mention just turning on the lights. You wife will quickly put a stop to that.

2) after about age 40, you'll start getting up to go to the bathroom a lot more often than you do now. Your vision will get worse, too, so a little more light will help.

3) I don't "let" my kids keep their toys in my bedroom, but they're kids, so you'll find stuff strewn in the most random places. And I'll tell you what, stepping on a small lego piece buried in the carpet in bare feet will make you say naughty words.

Thus, I, and others here, use low-level lights to navigate around the house. I've used a streamlight stylus, and now have a lighthound fauxton.

Cheers,

-John

Yes, the little legos are painful. My personal favorite was stepping on one of my daughters earrings that was laying on the carpet. The post went right through my skin and stuck in my foot. 😱

I have an old Sure-fire E1 with the original led conversion head in it with a diffuser cap on it. When one of my bright flashlights run down the 123's to much, I save them to put in the E1. That makes a real nice low lite for night adjusted vision. Plus it's a good way to squeeze a little extra run time from the expensive batteries.


Brad

 

[importculture]

+1 Very good post.

I use my NovaTac on 0.08 lumens way more than the higher levels, every night when going to bed in the pitch dark. Even .08 seems too bright sometimes, it still wakes up the wife even when only pointed at the floor.

and oh yeah, it's a good excuse to play with my light.😗

+1 although it's too low to use at home due to adequate street lighting etc. But whenever me and friends hang out at the beach or anywhere really dark after 1am my novatac is always on. I don't think I have a light that has a lower low than my 120p. Even my aviator with frosted led's are too bright. Plus the 120p on low doesn't seem to have any pwm. That .08 lumens are just right in really dark situations. plus the UI is awesome. One forward press and 120lumens comes on let go and it's back to .08lumens. Awesome light

 

[MKLight]

1) single, you don't have to worry about disturbing anyone. married, do you really want to turn 3000lumens of overhead light in the bedroom at 2am just because you need a little light to see something? I'd love to hear the ensuing tongue lashing...
2) eyesight gets worse with age
3) all it takes is one piece of ANYTHING which is out of place from your memorized version of the house, and stepping on it or smacking into it will fix that attitude.

1) I fully agree with you;
2) Very true;
3) Absolutely!

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

About a 4D P7 Mag...

I just got a 2D (3c) P7 Mag from nailbender and it has a D2Flex 8 level driver in it.

Push and release the switch and it comes on in high. Hold the switch down a while and it comes on LOW. Pretty sweet!

And of course there are 6 levels between those extremes.

It's a rather big light for night time use but ever so useful!

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...It is also true that you actually pay money for the services of others partly for their expertise in hiding from you what they do with their dim lights. And they love that aspect of the relationship.,,.

...If you're talking about cops and spies, yes, I already acknowledged those situations, with the qualification that I (but not necessarily everyone I'm close to) will never be in those situations.

To go off-topic a little bit: I do not pay them to conceal from me what they do with those dim lights, to whatever extent doesn't endanger them anyway, and I don't care if they like keeping everything a secret. There is a difference between need-to-know and need-to-conceal.

Cops and spys are but two exaamples. Have you ever been to a live stage play or even seen a live act in a niteclub? Those there would smile to find that you had no idea of their presence, as you have indicated. That was their intention. It worked. It's part of what you pay for when you buy a ticket. It's not really magic up there on the stage -- it's something that's been practiced and sold to you, whether you understand what your eyes are telling you you're seeing or not.

In a much more general vein: If many people weren't working behind the scenes with dim lights those reading this wouldn't have most of the products and services that they now take for granted. No products shipped across the oceans. Yikes -- no Nikes! No fish caught by commercial fishermen. No flights after dark -- passenger or freight. I'll leave the million things that the military does with dim light for others to ponder.

The Western world, as we know it, would nearly come to a complete standstill if there were no lights dimmer than 10 lumens.