Can someone explain to me the use of a light that makes <10 lumens?

[kaichu dento]

When HID headlights first came out, I did a bunch of research on this topic, both to explain why I found HID light to be so blindingly painful, and also to petition my Congressman and Senator to impose tighter regulations to keep them under control. (I'm currently doing the same in regards to the ultra-bright red LEDs Toyota and Nissan are using in their taillights.)

When they first started coming out with headlights which were brighter on low than a lot of standard headlights were on high I expected some kind of legislation to put an end to it, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Keep up the work and if you get any petitions needing signed, put up a thread here! :thumbsup:

 

[deusexaethera]

It's a matter of degree. The sensitivity of rods does decrease when exposed to brighter light, but the rods and cones are always "switched on." Rods affect color perception even when swamped by the cones. Color perception changes with light intensity. The response of rods and cones is summed together and transmitted to the brain. It is the response of rods to blue that shifts the perception of color. That is why museum designers must carefully choose the color temperature of lighting to maintain the sensation of white. The rods affect perception of color; they don't turn off.

Most of what you said is what I said. As for the part about rods affecting color balance in bright light, I suppose they do, but it takes them several minutes to become at all sensitive to light after coming inside on a bright sunny day, for example. So whatever effect the rods may have on color balance, it's not an instantaneous effect.

 

[emr]

Well that's good, we agree. Have a good one

 

[Sub_Umbra]

The preservation of night vision through the use of red light has a good basis in fundamental scientific principles as described in peer reviewed scientific publications. If you can show me some reasons, based on scientifically sound principles, why any of these other night vision preservation strategies should work, I might give them some credence, until then I will remain very sceptical of them.

The cyan explanation should be a doozy, as that would be a close match for the peak responsiveness of rhodopsin and should be the best wavelength for crippling night vision capability.

I have already explained the fundimentals, and you couldn't see it. Getting it through your head is not my problem. I've already spent decades in different jobs where I had to have a working knowledge of how this actually works in the real world -- just so I could function. The information is out there. While controversial, it is not rocket science. There is far more to the real world than just cones and rods. If you aren't interested in doing any research on the subject you certainly won't believe what I would write about it AGAIN! If you MUST hear it from me you could start by searching out what I have posted on dark adapted vision here at cpf. It would save a lot of bandwidth.

I would also add that if you could look at this with a more open mind it would be apparent that none of my posts on dark adapted vision in this thread or any other threads contradict anything found in any "...peer reviewed scientific publications..." on this subject. You just fail to understand what I've posted. You have given no example of anything I posted that you feel goes against the books so I can't refute any point that has never been mentioned. Please feel free to quote me (within context, of course) anywhere I have contradicted the scientific sources which you also failed to note. My methodology is different but we are all governed by the same rules when it comes to dark adapted vision and as I said early on: there are numerous successful strategies employed. None of them are in dissagreement with any "...peer reviewed scientific publications..." on the subject. Frankly, most really just have no clue of how to actually use what has been written on this subject in any real world environment.

 

[jeffb]

I guess I just have really good night vision then. I can walk around the house in pitch-dark and be fine. (someone told me it has something to do with having unusually-dark brown irises, but I have no idea if that's accurate.)

I also sleep with an eye mask, so when I get up in the middle of the night the ambient light that soaks through the blinds might as well be a bright nightlight.

I guess I can see how it could be of use while hunting or something, but isn't that what they make red filters for?

When I was young, I could read in the dark, as my eyes could gather enough light. Never imagined using a flashlight for much of anything.....

Fast forward to 57 years. I use a flashlight to read (CR2 Ion, original), an LS20 to navigate the house and a Spy 005 with one level set very low to navigate at night.

I much prefer low level lights for nighttime tasks in many instances. Bright floods are great for illuminating the yard at night. SureFire L4 or U2
jeffb

 

[EngrPaul]

Can someone explain to me the use of a flashlight that makes >1000 lumens?

 

[deusexaethera]

Really not looking to argue at this point, but I do want to say my father is 55 years old and he will read the newspaper on the kitchen island counter with his back to the main counter, which has three under-cabinet lights, and he will have them set to ~10 watts total. Sometimes he'll munch on some peanuts and peruse the ingredient list, which is black letters on a blue background, in the same light.

That's lower than I can stand to read anything in, but I am 50% him, for whatever that's worth.

Also, you'll be pleased to know that I used my recently-improved Shasta three times in the past couple of days, walking around the house in the dark. It worked fine. It reminded me, in fact, of back when all I had was my Arc-AAA with the Nichia DS LED in it, and I could use the hell out of it and never have to worry about having a spare battery. I really wish I hadn't lost that light.

 

[deusexaethera]

Can someone explain to me the use of a flashlight that makes >1000 lumens?

How about if I explain the use of the font size adjuster first?

If you don't know what a bright light is good for, then you don't know what the sun is good for. Sometimes you need to see things that are far away.

 

[deusexaethera]

allthatbyyou.jpg

Yep, that's pretty much the long, defensive version of what I said.

If any peers would like to review my claim that the green lights in my father's minivan aren't blinding, stop on by and I can arrange for you to sit in the driver's seat for a while.

 

[deranged_coder]

If you don't know what a bright light is good for, then you don't know what the sun is good for. Sometimes you need to see things that are far away.

But what if I am nearsighted and have photophobia? 😉

 

[EngrPaul]

How about if I explain the use of the font size adjuster first?

If you don't know what a bright light is good for, then you don't know what the sun is good for. Sometimes you need to see things that are far away.

That's not an explanation :nana:

If you had a flashlight that only produces 1000+ lumens how useful would it be?

Sometimes it is interesting to look at things the other way around. I would probably find a <10 lumen light much more useful than a >1000 lumen light.

 

[Benson]

When they first started coming out with headlights which were brighter on low than a lot of standard headlights were on high I expected some kind of legislation to put an end to it, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Keep up the work and if you get any petitions needing signed, put up a thread here! :thumbsup:

This is CPF; I can't help but wonder if more of us would sign a petition to permit brighter headlights! :naughty:

Seriously, I don't see why low beams being brighter than "a lot of high beams" is a problem -- the issue is whether they are too bright, independent of how weak some factory lights may be. And more specifically, it doesn't matter how bright they are in total, but how bright they are in the upper part of their pattern, where they'll glare in oncoming drivers' eyes. The way this usually becomes a problem is not merely brighter lamps with the correct pattern, but using beams with an incorrect pattern, e.g. JDM lights, and this is illegal already.

However... I hope we all can agree that <10 lumen lights should not be used as vehicle headlights. 😀

 

[deusexaethera]

That's not an explanation :nana:

If you had a flashlight that only produces 1000+ lumens how useful would it be?

Its usefulness would be irrelevant to this conversation, because I never said the <10 lumen light I was speaking of had to be single-mode. In fact, now that I have multi-mode lights, I have no inclination to ever buy another single-mode light.

However, irrelevant though it might be, a 1000 lumen light would be fantastic if I were searching for escaped convicts and awful if I were a stagehand.

 

[Benson]

That's not an explanation :nana:

If you had a flashlight that only produces 1000+ lumens how useful would it be?

Very useful, for some things. Bicycle headlight would be my chief use, but also useful (depending on the light) for illuminating objects at long distances, or illuminating large areas close up. (Mainly outdoors, obviously.) My ~500 lumen P7 is quite useful for finding small parts dropped on carpet, too, and while a 1000 lumen monster wouldn't be much better, it would be no worse. Maybe it would have use as a dual-mode weapon, too: beat them or blind them.

Would it be non-useful for late-night trips to the john? Sure! But the <10 lumen lights under discussion are similarly non-useful in the roles I just mentioned, so... get both! 😎

 

[deusexaethera]

This is CPF; I can't help but wonder if more of us would sign a petition to permit brighter headlights! :naughty:

Seriously, I don't see why low beams being brighter than "a lot of high beams" is a problem -- the issue is whether they are too bright, independent of how weak some factory lights may be. And more specifically, it doesn't matter how bright they are in total, but how bright they are in the upper part of their pattern, where they'll glare in oncoming drivers' eyes. The way this usually becomes a problem is not merely brighter lamps with the correct pattern, but using beams with an incorrect pattern, e.g. JDM lights, and this is illegal already.

However... I hope we all can agree that <10 lumen lights should not be used as vehicle headlights. 😀

There are two problems with cool-white HID headlights:

1. Blue light is dazzling and blinding in large quantities, and projector headlamps scatter blue light to the edges of the beam, guaranteeing oncoming drivers will see it.

2. The cutoff shield on projector headlamps removes the smooth transition along the top of the lowbeam that older, reflector/refractor headlamps used to have, which means that if an oncoming driver with HID lowbeams goes over a bump, their headlights will strobe into your vision, giving your eyes zero chance to compensate.

At least with 4300-5500k HIDs, the issue is mitigated by the relatively yellow color of the light, which human eyes are prepared to deal with large quantities of. 6000-10000k HIDs are a scourge upon humanity in general, and me specifically.

 

[Benson]

6000-10000k HIDs are a scourge upon humanity in general, and me specifically.

Oh, that reminds me: the other good use of a 1000+ light (this time a good thrower, with beam totally unsuited as a bike light, and, since you mention it, it should be cool white): reminding oncoming drivers that, yes, you do need to drop those high-beams, even though I'm "only" a cyclist. :devil: Yes, I know, aiming light into oncoming traffic's eyes is not only rude and illegal, it's downright suicidal, but the fantasy's therapeutic.

I'm thinking to incorporate a momentary pushbutton to my planned multi-P7 dedicated bikelight, to overdrive it as a "visual horn". But I've had people pull through a stop sign in front of me, when I was using my bloomin' P7 Mag as a headlight. :shakehead: So I don't know that a blip of direct-drive will get their attention either...

 

[deusexaethera]

I just use 75W highbeam bulbs. They're good for seeing and for getting people's attention. (My lowbeams are completely normal, however.)

FYI, the only effective method I've ever found for getting a dawdler the hell out of the passing lane is to sit behind them with my highbeams on. It provides an incentive for them to move.

 

[Marduke]

I just use 75W highbeam bulbs. They're good for seeing and for getting people's attention. (My lowbeams are completely normal, however.)

FYI, the only effective method I've ever found for getting a dawdler the hell out of the passing lane is to sit behind them with my highbeams on. It provides an incentive for them to move.

That's an excellent way to cause an accident and kill someone. It's also quite illegal.

Good judgment on your part... :shakehead

 

[kaichu dento]

This is CPF; I can't help but wonder if more of us would sign a petition to permit brighter headlights! :naughty:

Seriously, I don't see why low beams being brighter than "a lot of high beams" is a problem -- the issue is whether they are too bright, independent of how weak some factory lights may be. And more specifically, it doesn't matter how bright they are in total, but how bright they are in the upper part of their pattern, where they'll glare in oncoming drivers' eyes. The way this usually becomes a problem is not merely brighter lamps with the correct pattern, but using beams with an incorrect pattern, e.g. JDM lights, and this is illegal already.

However... I hope we all can agree that <10 lumen lights should not be used as vehicle headlights. 😀

Don't get me wrong, I like bright headlights, but prefer not to blind other drivers, who might not be able to see as they plow into my lane of travel! :sick2:

The main point I was trying to make is that it is incredibly annoying (to say the least) when you're being blinded by the other guy and decide to flash your highs, only to find out that it was his low beams that were blinding you, especially with some of the blue tinted lights.

Anyway, since I'm far from the city, I enjoy driving around with just two Arc-P's taped to my headlights, and it makes me feel very peaceful, as I can only drive at 5 mph with them on high! 😉

 

[csshih]

I just use 75W highbeam bulbs. They're good for seeing and for getting people's attention. (My lowbeams are completely normal, however.)

FYI, the only effective method I've ever found for getting a dawdler the hell out of the passing lane is to sit behind them with my highbeams on. It provides an incentive for them to move.

bad idea, buddy.