Okay, I am new to HID. As in, I dont know ANYTHING at all about it. So can someone explain the characteristics of HID bulbs, and such? I thought it would be important to know about every last portable lighting device on this planet.
Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general?
- Thread starter Mags
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BatteryCharger
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
[ QUOTE ]
daich said:
It's very bright
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No, it's obscenely bright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif HID puts out about 90 lumens per watt and needs a high voltage ballast to run.
[ QUOTE ]
daich said:
It's very bright
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's obscenely bright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif HID puts out about 90 lumens per watt and needs a high voltage ballast to run.
BatteryCharger
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
The ballast is the thing that converts 12v to a couple thousand to light the bulb, just like with fluorescent lights. They can be yellow, white, and blue depending on the color temperature of the bulb.
The ballast is the thing that converts 12v to a couple thousand to light the bulb, just like with fluorescent lights. They can be yellow, white, and blue depending on the color temperature of the bulb.
Sway
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
Mags good information that will get you started and the full FAQ is here. This deals with automotive lighting and good part of the mods use these parts well then you have the Mini HID but it works the same way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Later
Kelly
Mags good information that will get you started and the full FAQ is here. This deals with automotive lighting and good part of the mods use these parts well then you have the Mini HID but it works the same way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Later
Kelly
enLIGHTenment
Enlightened
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
[ QUOTE ]
Mags_despiser said:
What is a ballast? Also, are their beams white like LED, or yellow?
[/ QUOTE ]
A ballast is a voltage and current regulated power supply which provides the correct voltage for the bulb to shine while limiting current to prevent the bulb from exploding. HID bulbs typically run on 85 to 120 volts. The other component of a HID system is an ignitor, which is relatively simple but quite deadly voltage multiplier that creates the 25,000 volt, or greater, pulse needed to make the bulb turn on.
HID bulbs typically have a bluish-white color temperature similar to that of the common variety 5mm white LED.
[ QUOTE ]
Mags_despiser said:
What is a ballast? Also, are their beams white like LED, or yellow?
[/ QUOTE ]
A ballast is a voltage and current regulated power supply which provides the correct voltage for the bulb to shine while limiting current to prevent the bulb from exploding. HID bulbs typically run on 85 to 120 volts. The other component of a HID system is an ignitor, which is relatively simple but quite deadly voltage multiplier that creates the 25,000 volt, or greater, pulse needed to make the bulb turn on.
HID bulbs typically have a bluish-white color temperature similar to that of the common variety 5mm white LED.
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
Kinda hard to believe that you can wring that much voltage out of batteries.
The Mini/Mag2HIDs using the Welch Allyn Solarc lamps and B10N008 ballast run on 60+ volts and have a 6,000 volt (6KV) ignition pulse. It's amazing when you think about it and realize your fingers are less than half an inch away from electronics running at that kind of truly insane voltage. And that it's all being generated off batteries. I'm aware that the voltage is extremely high, the current is extremely low but still it's amazing to think you can get kilovolts out of a 10+ volt NiMH pack.
Kinda hard to believe that you can wring that much voltage out of batteries.
The Mini/Mag2HIDs using the Welch Allyn Solarc lamps and B10N008 ballast run on 60+ volts and have a 6,000 volt (6KV) ignition pulse. It's amazing when you think about it and realize your fingers are less than half an inch away from electronics running at that kind of truly insane voltage. And that it's all being generated off batteries. I'm aware that the voltage is extremely high, the current is extremely low but still it's amazing to think you can get kilovolts out of a 10+ volt NiMH pack.
lotsalumens
Enlightened
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
MaxaBaker
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
WooHoo!!! Mags has entered HID land!!!!!!!! It's quite different from LEDs (I think you hang out in the LED forum most correct?). I have tried to get to like LEDs and incans as much as HID but in my opinion you can't beat a short arc!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
WooHoo!!! Mags has entered HID land!!!!!!!! It's quite different from LEDs (I think you hang out in the LED forum most correct?). I have tried to get to like LEDs and incans as much as HID but in my opinion you can't beat a short arc!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
enLIGHTenment
Enlightened
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
[ QUOTE ]
Mags_despiser said:
Oh gee, whats an arc?
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0016476.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge_lamp
[ QUOTE ]
Mags_despiser said:
Oh gee, whats an arc?
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0016476.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge_lamp
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
[ QUOTE ]
lotsalumens said:
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, that's a good example of how we turn the key and get that amount of voltage. And unlike the HID ballast that's a hefty amount of amps - I've heard figures of 350 CCAs (Cold Cranking Amps) which is how big a burst the battery can deliver to start the car.
I'm just taking a step back and marvelling at what technology can do for us sometimes, even though we take it for granted, sometimes when you think about it, it's still a little bit of magic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
lotsalumens said:
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, that's a good example of how we turn the key and get that amount of voltage. And unlike the HID ballast that's a hefty amount of amps - I've heard figures of 350 CCAs (Cold Cranking Amps) which is how big a burst the battery can deliver to start the car.
I'm just taking a step back and marvelling at what technology can do for us sometimes, even though we take it for granted, sometimes when you think about it, it's still a little bit of magic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Wolf
Newly Enlightened
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
[ QUOTE ]
KevinL said:
[ QUOTE ]
lotsalumens said:
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, that's a good example of how we turn the key and get that amount of voltage. And unlike the HID ballast that's a hefty amount of amps - I've heard figures of 350 CCAs (Cold Cranking Amps) which is how big a burst the battery can deliver to start the car.
I'm just taking a step back and marvelling at what technology can do for us sometimes, even though we take it for granted, sometimes when you think about it, it's still a little bit of magic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
starting a car (starter motor) sucking down stupid amounts of amps is closer to how a incan works (high restant draw) hid is alot brighter and draws less amps once the arc is started, the stun gun is really close to how a hid works, larger scale hid that you might see every day and not know it are most street lights and head lights on alot of the newer high ends cars (bmw, mercedes, lexus ect) are using them, easy to tell by the very pure white/blue tint they give off
[ QUOTE ]
KevinL said:
[ QUOTE ]
lotsalumens said:
A stun gun is a good example of the same sort of thing. A multiplier charges up a cap which discharges into a tiny pulse transformer and bang you have well over 50kV all from a couple of small batteries. An auto ignition coil is another even simpler device that can produce 30-50kV from a 12v source.
Zap!
cfb
[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, that's a good example of how we turn the key and get that amount of voltage. And unlike the HID ballast that's a hefty amount of amps - I've heard figures of 350 CCAs (Cold Cranking Amps) which is how big a burst the battery can deliver to start the car.
I'm just taking a step back and marvelling at what technology can do for us sometimes, even though we take it for granted, sometimes when you think about it, it's still a little bit of magic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
starting a car (starter motor) sucking down stupid amounts of amps is closer to how a incan works (high restant draw) hid is alot brighter and draws less amps once the arc is started, the stun gun is really close to how a hid works, larger scale hid that you might see every day and not know it are most street lights and head lights on alot of the newer high ends cars (bmw, mercedes, lexus ect) are using them, easy to tell by the very pure white/blue tint they give off
lotsalumens
Enlightened
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
Yup...very efficient and very bright. The first high intensity discharge lamps were carbon arcs. They pre-dated incandescents, and lit streets and large interior spaces for decades after incandescents were perfected. Pretty amazing in an era of gas lights to have large installations of self regulating arc discharge lamps, and this was before anyone had even figured out how to make a glowing wire in a bulb work correctly. Modern discharge designs got even better and are all around us lighting streets, Costcos, etc. They are still what you use when you need a whole lot of light.
cfb
Yup...very efficient and very bright. The first high intensity discharge lamps were carbon arcs. They pre-dated incandescents, and lit streets and large interior spaces for decades after incandescents were perfected. Pretty amazing in an era of gas lights to have large installations of self regulating arc discharge lamps, and this was before anyone had even figured out how to make a glowing wire in a bulb work correctly. Modern discharge designs got even better and are all around us lighting streets, Costcos, etc. They are still what you use when you need a whole lot of light.
cfb
VidPro
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
i like to think of them like this:
its a strobe light, like the flash on your camera
but its triggered enough times to not strobe.
the problems I see in them is the consumer handy ones are only 1500-3000hr life to the bulb.
usually the ballests are seperate :-(
they are PRICEY.
but then i discovered These (dont tell anybody
http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_hid_parts.htm
hundred bucks for a real honest to goodness integrated ballast, chrome light with 2 different degrees, all in a package that makes a 2D mag light look large
another caveat
they take 10 seconds to warm up to full bright, and once off they should not be turned on immediatally again, you gotta wait a minute, for some cycle to occur.
i like to think of them like this:
its a strobe light, like the flash on your camera
but its triggered enough times to not strobe.
the problems I see in them is the consumer handy ones are only 1500-3000hr life to the bulb.
usually the ballests are seperate :-(
they are PRICEY.
but then i discovered These (dont tell anybody
http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_hid_parts.htm
hundred bucks for a real honest to goodness integrated ballast, chrome light with 2 different degrees, all in a package that makes a 2D mag light look large
another caveat
they take 10 seconds to warm up to full bright, and once off they should not be turned on immediatally again, you gotta wait a minute, for some cycle to occur.
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
So....
Ballast- like a highly efficient converter board.
Arc- an incandescent fillament on photonic steriods.
Price- I wont go near these. I just need to know about them.
Size- I assume these are larger than average size lanterns?
So....
Ballast- like a highly efficient converter board.
Arc- an incandescent fillament on photonic steriods.
Price- I wont go near these. I just need to know about them.
Size- I assume these are larger than average size lanterns?
MaxaBaker
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
HID in total can be quite small. A 2D maglite can be (and is) converted into HID that is bright enough to knock most LED socks off (not that LEDs where socks).
Price- you can get 35 watt (VERY bright!!!) automotive HID systems for under $70 every once and a while. That includes bulb, ballast, and ignitor (everything but what it goes into).
As for the arc, there is no filament. I might just be interpreting your "incandescent fillament on photonic steriods" comment incorrectly but I'll say this anyway. An arc in an HID lamp is two pieces of pointed metal (for DC current. In an A/C system, it's one pointed and one flat piece of metal) that are pointing towards each other that an electric arc travels across. Have you ever touched something and a little static arc travels from you to something else (or from something elser to you)? Well, it's like a constant high-powered version of that going from one of the metal pieces to the other. That arc is regulated by the ballast for the proper amount of electricity to travel from metal point to metal point. The ignitor is the part that sends a large jolt of electricity to start the arc's travel (naturally, you need the large jolt because there's not enough attraction from point to point without a higher current. The ballast keeps it running at a lower voltage after the arc is established but keeps enough electricity running to make sure the arc does not stop).
Hope that helps (unless of course you already knew that and I am just rambling for no reason). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
HID in total can be quite small. A 2D maglite can be (and is) converted into HID that is bright enough to knock most LED socks off (not that LEDs where socks).
Price- you can get 35 watt (VERY bright!!!) automotive HID systems for under $70 every once and a while. That includes bulb, ballast, and ignitor (everything but what it goes into).
As for the arc, there is no filament. I might just be interpreting your "incandescent fillament on photonic steriods" comment incorrectly but I'll say this anyway. An arc in an HID lamp is two pieces of pointed metal (for DC current. In an A/C system, it's one pointed and one flat piece of metal) that are pointing towards each other that an electric arc travels across. Have you ever touched something and a little static arc travels from you to something else (or from something elser to you)? Well, it's like a constant high-powered version of that going from one of the metal pieces to the other. That arc is regulated by the ballast for the proper amount of electricity to travel from metal point to metal point. The ignitor is the part that sends a large jolt of electricity to start the arc's travel (naturally, you need the large jolt because there's not enough attraction from point to point without a higher current. The ballast keeps it running at a lower voltage after the arc is established but keeps enough electricity running to make sure the arc does not stop).
Hope that helps (unless of course you already knew that and I am just rambling for no reason). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
MaxaBaker
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Can someone tell me about HID bulbs in general
Bingo! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I forget what they are called though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Bingo! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I forget what they are called though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
