Carbide inserts for thread cutting

pmath

Newly Enlightened
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Apr 14, 2005
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Melbourne, Australia
On a few posts I've noticed people here using fine pointed (30 degree?) inserts for thread and knurl cutting.

I'm interested in what you are using and where you are getting them from? I need to graduate from hand sharpened tools as I am not happy with my ability to get them as precise as I want.

Can you get internal cutters as well?

Peter
 
You've opened a can of worms when you start looking at carbide inserts, especially for threading.

Personally, I use Sandvik inserts and toolholders for threading (and turning, too). Yes, there are inserts for internal threading.

This may turn out to be a lot more expensive than you realize, as you will need a variety of sizes for cutting different threads, plus you need the toolholders as well.

You could just buy some nice carbide threading bars, say from ThinBit or Micro 100, and just resharpen them as needed, or just buy new ones as they wear out.

But, if you want to go inserts and toolholders, I would suggest calling your local Sandvik reseller and ask for a copy of their Main Catalog. That will cover just about anything that you might need. Or, if you are doing mainly small pieces, then check out Sandvik online, under Small Part Machining. Download their files, read them all, then ask questions.

While Sandvik carbide threading inserts seem expensive, the ones that I use have three points on each piece, so if divided by three, the cost isn't that bad. :D

I must say that they wear exceptionally well.

I find that I'm mainly only making two or three sizes of threads nowadays, so I overbought initially. Think carefully about what thread sizes you are likely to use the most, then order a few inserts for those threads. You can always buy more later.

eBay is often a good source for Sandvik threading inserts.

As for cut knurling, that requires a special toolholder also, one that holds two carbide knurling wheels. And of course, there a wide variety of pitches to choose from there also. Visit the websites for IFanger, Zeus, Quick, Dorian, and Accu Track. They all have a wealth of info for download.
 
Thank a lot PhotonFanatic. The Sandvic stuff looks spot on. I'll need to do a little more homework to get on top of the knurling I htink

Peter
 
I do it on the cheap. I use standard triangular inserts.

For external threads I use a carbide insert in a standard insert holder. My turning insert holders are similar to the 3/8 inch ENCO part 250-1400 ( http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1400&PMPXNO=948949&PARTPG=INLMK3 ) I have a small lathe, so I have fairly small inserts. I have a smaller 1/4 inch set where the inserts overhang the back of the holder that I use for inside threading.

A standard UNC thread has 60 degree sides with a flat bottom and flat top. That's why you need different threading inserts for different sized threads. A threading tool for 32 tpi thread will have a smaller flat tip than a 20 tpi threading tool.

If you use triangular inserts, you have to take into account the profile of the insert's tip when you are cutting the threads. Some inserts actually have a sharp point, while most have a rounded tip. This can work to your benefit. More about that later.

I use the sharp inserts and simply cut the thread with a V shape, no flat bottom. These are compatible with properly cut threads. To make life easy for myself I set up a calculator that gives me all the information I need to cut threads using a sharp tool. I made it web accessible at http://www.tanj.com/cgi-bin/tpi.cgi in case it's useful for others.

That page also has some explanations about thread profiles. The information is correct as well as I understand it.

The radius on the tip of inserts are measured in 1/64. The last last number of the insert's part number is the radius. So a tcmt-221 has a 1/64 inch radius, and a tcmt-220 has a sharp tip with negligible radius. If you chose correctly the radius will come close to the flat root called for by the standard UNR thread shape.

Daniel
 
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If you really want to make life easier for yourself, and eliminate having to do a lot of calculations, just buy carbide threading inserts that cut the full thread form. That means the insert will properly shape the crest and bottom of the thread in its final passes.

Most threading is done at a slight offset to the 30° compound slide angle, say 29° or 29.5°. As you make the preliminary passes, the insert is cutting on its leading edge. The metal curls off the insert on the forward edge only.

For the final passes, as one approaches the final depth, the cross slide is moved, rather than the compound slide, and now the insert cuts on both flanks of the thread. The chip that comes off now looks completely different than earlier, and the thread itself is now properly formed and very smooth.

BTW, if you want to read an excellent, although somewhat pedantic, book on threading, try Screwcutting in the Lathe, by Marin Cleeve.
 
I do it on the cheap. I use standard triangular inserts.

For external threads I use a carbide insert in a standard insert holder. My turning insert holders are similar to the 3/8 inch ENCO part 250-1400 ( http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1400&PMPXNO=948949&PARTPG=INLMK3 ) I have a small lathe, so I have fairly small inserts. I have a smaller 1/4 inch set where the inserts overhang the back of the holder that I use for inside threading.

A standard UNC thread has 60 degree sides with a flat bottom and flat top. That's why you need different threading inserts for different sized threads. A threading tool for 32 tpi thread will have a smaller flat tip than a 20 tpi threading tool.

If you use triangular inserts, you have to take into account the profile of the insert's tip when you are cutting the threads. Some inserts actually have a sharp point, while most have a rounded tip. This can work to your benefit. More about that later.

I use the sharp inserts and simply cut the thread with a V shape, no flat bottom. These are compatible with properly cut threads. To make life easy for myself I set up a calculator that gives me all the information I need to cut threads using a sharp tool. I made it web accessible at http://www.tanj.com/cgi-bin/tpi.cgi in case it's useful for others.

That page also has some explanations about thread profiles. The information is correct as well as I understand it.

The radius on the tip of inserts are measured in 1/64. The last last number of the insert's part number is the radius. So a tcmt-221 has a 1/64 inch radius, and a tcmt-220 has a sharp tip with negligible radius. If you chose correctly the radius will come close to the flat root called for by the standard UNC thread shape.

Daniel

Ditto - which of course makes sense in my case since it was Daniel who helped me out with the setup/equipment for doing threads.

That being said, I am using Mac's straight cutting method for threads - no 29 and 1/2 degree anything. Just cutting them straight - works fantastic and it is of course MUCH faster and easier to setup :D

Will
 
I love carbide for all turning, boring and facing but prefer HSS for threading.
For me its all about getting the cutting faces of the tool honed so they are super sharp. Just seems to work better for me.
I like the style of tool shown below that only requires sharpening on the top from time to time. They are available for internal and external threads.
Pic is of internal 60° tool

insidethread.jpg
 
If the material is SS or hardened steel, carbide inserts are the first choice. But most of my single point threading is done with HSS tools. They are easy to grind & easy to set up. You will need a gage like the one below, both to grind the tool & to set the tool to the work.

710.jpg
 
Similar to PhotonFanatic I use the 29° offset method so the chip load is mostly on one side of the insert. This will avoid the tip loading that will sometimes break down an insert at the worst time. I also grind a small flat of the proper size to form the thread root. Unlike PhotonFanatic however I continue with the compound at 29° for the final passes. I have found this produces an excellent finish and final thread form. The problems I have noticed with surface finish come from people using a 30° compound angle or getting too close to it, -stick to the 29° compound angle. When cutting threads on a $30k pipe die there is no room for error.
 
I love carbide for all turning, boring and facing but prefer HSS for threading.
For me its all about getting the cutting faces of the tool honed so they are super sharp. Just seems to work better for me.
I like the style of tool shown below that only requires sharpening on the top from time to time. They are available for internal and external threads.
Pic is of internal 60° tool
David, I'd love to try one of those HSS threading tools, can you point to the supplier?

Thanks,
Scott
 
Lots of interesting advice here. I guess I'll throw in my .02, for external threads I generally use a brazed carbide tool, and for internal I've had the best luck with Micro100 solid carbide tools in all materials. Micro100 makes a very nice tool for the $.

Thanks for the link to Alouette/Ifanger, I see Ifanger also makes some interesting looking knurling tools.
 
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