CAUTION !! Misleading budget battery and lumen claims

Wentil

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
3
I know, check out this latest malarky, where they're claiming a ludicrous 5300 mAH for 18650s.

Mislabeled batteries are very likely the cheapest of the cheap, and in the 1500 mAH range -- if the buyer is lucky.

B640.jpg
 

Wentil

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
3
Oh, wait, it gets even better...

The false claims for 18650 cells are up to 6,000 mAH now.

It's mind-boggling, but people who don't know any better are being misled.

OC00800-5.JPG
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
I like that, can you imagine if that were real though? You would never have to recharge. I don't know why anyone would buy one of those no way you should believe they are real.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
The average joe has no CLUE what it even means....he just sees the 3000 mah are more $ than the 2000 mah, so higher must be better, and then he sees a 10,000 mah, and figures, "well, this must be the best, I don't see any higher (until next week), so I'll get the top of the line 10,000 mah suretocatchfire premium ultra super fancy 18650. I mean, heck, its only $10 for 5 of them. I can't believe those RIP OFF ARTISTS selling ONE 3400 mah 18650 for the price of FIVE 10 THOUSAND Mah 18650....the NERVE!

And the 20 million lumen CREE tactical genuine Royal British Army flashlight was only $8 too, WITH real aerospace aluminum! I LOVE eBay!"

:D
 
Last edited:

ven

Well-known member
CPF Supporter
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
22,477
Location
Manchester UK
The average joe has no CLUE what it even means....he just sees the 3000 mah are more $ than the 2000 mah, so higher must be better, and then he sees a 10,000 mah, and figures, "well, this must be the best, I don't see any higher (until next week), so I'll get the top of the line 10,000 mah suretocatchfire premium ultra super fancy 18650. I mean, heck, its only $10 for 5 of them. I can't believe those RIP OFF ARTISTS selling ONE 3400 mah 18650 for the price of FIVE 10 THOUSAND Mah 18650....the NERVE!

And the 20 million lumen CREE tactical genuine Royal British Army flashlight was only $8 too, WITH real aerospace aluminum! I LOVE eBay!"

:D


:laughing::laughing::laughing:
 

CaptainPicard

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
34
Location
Cleveland, OH
The average joe has no CLUE what it even means....he just sees the 3000 mah are more $ than the 2000 mah, so higher must be better, and then he sees a 10,000 mah, and figures, "well, this must be the best, I don't see any higher (until next week), so I'll get the top of the line 10,000 mah suretocatchfire premium ultra super fancy 18650. I mean, heck, its only $10 for 5 of them. I can't believe those RIP OFF ARTISTS selling ONE 3400 mah 18650 for the price of FIVE 10 THOUSAND Mah 18650....the NERVE!

And the 20 million lumen CREE tactical genuine Royal British Army flashlight was only $8 too, WITH real aerospace aluminum! I LOVE eBay!"

:D

I had to walk a fried through this, and even showed them this thread. They couldn't believe it. It was both hilarious and eye-opening to see their reactions.
 

LanthanumK

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
67
Location
People's Republic of New Jersey
The average person probably doesn't care about capacity of rechargeable batteries, but they do care about brightness of their lights. When I looked to upgrade to 14500 in my clone light to increase brightness (so I heard), I just typed "14500 battery" and pretty much bought the first result on Amazon. Both 14500 batteries are in my younger siblings' hands, ready to be left in the cheap chargers for days on end, forgotten.:shakehead Fortunately they have such abysmally low capacity that there is probably little risk of venting or explosion. A brand new 14500, light used a minute a day on high, dead after a week.
 

Trevtrain

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
407
Location
Melbourne, Australia
The average person probably doesn't care about capacity of rechargeable batteries, but they do care about brightness of their lights. When I looked to upgrade to 14500 in my clone light to increase brightness (so I heard), I just typed "14500 battery" and pretty much bought the first result on Amazon. Both 14500 batteries are in my younger siblings' hands, ready to be left in the cheap chargers for days on end, forgotten.:shakehead Fortunately they have such abysmally low capacity that there is probably little risk of venting or explosion. A brand new 14500, light used a minute a day on high, dead after a week.

I wouldn't be leaving ANY kind of Li-Ion cell in "younger siblings" hands or "left in cheap chargers". Strongly suggest you acquaint yourself with any of the many care and handling threads here at CPF. Low capacity has absolutely nothing to do with risk of venting or explosion unless it is to make it more likely due to the chance that these crappy cells have no or fake protection circuits.

If you really must use 14500s, get a quality brand and a decent charger and have a think about whether you should be putting these in the hands of kids (if that is the younger siblings you refer to) at all.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
BTW the brand is Ultrafire. I tell them to remove the batteries as soon as the charger turns green but occasionally they forget. I used the battery for a few months before passing it on.

These can be dangerous. You really should not let kids play with them.

Although, to be fair, I have a younger sibling, but he's in his 50's.

:D

BTW - Where in NJ are you?

:D
 
Last edited:

Richwouldnt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
314
Location
Reno, NV
The average joe has no CLUE what it even means....he just sees the 3000 mah are more $ than the 2000 mah, so higher must be better, and then he sees a 10,000 mah, and figures, "well, this must be the best, I don't see any higher (until next week), so I'll get the top of the line 10,000 mah suretocatchfire premium ultra super fancy 18650. I mean, heck, its only $10 for 5 of them. I can't believe those RIP OFF ARTISTS selling ONE 3400 mah 18650 for the price of FIVE 10 THOUSAND Mah 18650....the NERVE!

And the 20 million lumen CREE tactical genuine Royal British Army flashlight was only $8 too, WITH real aerospace aluminum! I LOVE eBay!"



It's not just Ebay. As Amazon has made it easier for sellers to list items for sale through their web site, and even provide distribution and warehousing for the sellers, their seller claims have gotten to be ridiculous too in many instances. 15 LED, 18,000 Lumen flashlights and 4000 mAh batteries are only examples that you can find offered on there. Some even with "Amazon Prime" free two day shipping included for Prime members. I REALLY wish that Amazon would monitor sellers listings for obviously false claims as Amazon buyers now need to be as knowledgeable and educated about what they are buying as eBay buyers do.
 
Last edited:

EyeisMT40

Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
13
Oh, wait, it gets even better...

The false claims for 18650 cells are up to 6,000 mAH now.

It's mind-boggling, but people who don't know any better are being misled.

OC00800-5.JPG

6000mAH????!! "Genuine" or not...it's a ____-FIRE"......For ME---'Nuff said!!:sick2:
I'd bet serious $$ that dropping that last "0"....would better equate to the TRUE mAH output!!!!:D
YMMV......but I'd RUN.....NOT WALK....away from this kind of "deal"!!!!:(
 

Brain2014

New member
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
3
XML T6 gives near 1000lm only when the current comes to 3A which must make the flashlight heats very quickly! And part of lm will loose when using, so a flashlight with a single XML T6 can never ever gave 1000lm! Sellers who claim products give 2000lm are just wanna catch your attention. But actually 500lm is bright enough for daily use.

About 18650 battery, do you really believe 4000mAh at $3 each? I don't think so.
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
The Thrunite Lynx is a single XM-L2 and is 1000lm OTF, and it doesn't get that hot. Using direct copper mounted led and a large surface area head the led stays relatively cool.
 

thedoc007

Well-known member
Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
3,631
Location
Michigan, USA
XML T6 gives near 1000lm only when the current comes to 3A which must make the flashlight heats very quickly! And part of lm will loose when using, so a flashlight with a single XML T6 can never ever gave 1000lm! Sellers who claim products give 2000lm are just wanna catch your attention. But actually 500lm is bright enough for daily use.

2000 lumens from a single XM-L2 is still fantasy...but you can get at least 1600 lumens out of one. Vinh does it all the time. But for stock lights, as far as I know, claiming more than AROUND 1000 lumens is a red flag. It is possible, but caveat emptor! If you see any claims that look high, check it out first, and you might save yourself a hassle.

As for 18650s, currently 3600 mAh is the maximum.
 

Etsu

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
783
2000 lumens from a single XM-L2 is still fantasy...but you can get at least 1600 lumens out of one.

1600 lumens from an XML2? Looking at the spec sheet, you'd probably need to put 5 or 6 amps into the LED to get that kind of output. How long would the LED last being driven that hard? The spec sheet tops out at 3 amps.
 

thedoc007

Well-known member
Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
3,631
Location
Michigan, USA
1600 lumens from an XML2? Looking at the spec sheet, you'd probably need to put 5 or 6 amps into the LED to get that kind of output. How long would the LED last being driven that hard? The spec sheet tops out at 3 amps.

Vinh is a modder here...regularly boosts XM-L2 to 6.5 amps or so. Up to 1750 LED lumens. And I have yet to hear of an LED dying because of it. Drivers, yes, but not the LEDs. If you heat-sink it well, and don't run it for too long at one time, it seems to be fine. I'm sure the life will be reduced, but if it goes from 50,000 hours to 5,000 hours, that is still a pretty long time. By the time that goes, you'll probably either have a light to replace it, or at least want an emitter swap. Not really a big drawback in my opinion.
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
You can't run a light that hard for very long anyway without active cooling, if you just calculate the waist heat you will realize why. The led is very inefficient after 2.8A anyway and driving it that hard doesn't help. The battery will get hot as well so the light will not be able to be held after just a couple minutes. The lifespan is reduced, but not as much as you would think and if you run a light for less than a minute at a time it will take a long time to run it for even 1000 hrs. Most of the lights that he makes are bought by collectors and are rarely used for anywhere near the life expectancy of the light. He will typically put multiple modes in anyway and those are the ones that you would use most.
 

thedoc007

Well-known member
Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
3,631
Location
Michigan, USA
You can't run a light that hard for very long anyway without active cooling.

That really depends on the light, and the ambient conditions. I have a K40vn, for example. Around 1600 lumens, 6-6.5 amps. And I can run it for fifteen minutes (at the highest level) non-stop in cool weather, and indefinitely in cold weather (well, until the cells run out). Three cells have no trouble at all delivering two amps each. And the host is large and well heat-sinked, so it isn't that big of a deal most of the time. Certainly isn't a one minute maximum, like you said. Even in hot weather, it can do more than that without trouble.

You are certainly correct that it generates more heat, and is less efficient, but it also allows amazing throw. If you de-dome and boost current, you can often triple the throw of a stock light. To me, that is well worth it, in most cases.
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
I know that a host the size of the K40 will allow that kind of dissipation. I have a modded TN31 with a 5mm*31mm copper heatsink that I made myself that will run for a while before getting too hot to handle. The topic lead me to believe that we were discussing a single 18650 host not a 3*18650 host, which based on your estimation of 15 minutes with a host that size would be pretty difficult to pull. My TN31 can run untill the batteries run out on Hi in any conditions less than 110F and still be held, but it has a massive copper heat-sink and is far from stock in relation to heat-sinking to the body of the light.
 
Top