Caving Light

vomit_stain

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
9
I recently asked if anyone would help me in acquiring the ultimate caving light. The thread can be found in Headlamp discussion. I am posting my latest findings here as I felt it would be more appropriate.
As cavers, the lights we use are lifelines.
They have to be: robust,longlived,and finally bright enough to cave with. Our lights need not be as bright as the average flashlight as we are in COMPLETE darkness.
The LED promises to be the future in caving because of its bulb life,current draw, and useful light output.
That being said I want to give you the latest report on Luffokc's design.
As said before,it is Wheat Lamp mining light with 20 LED's mouted around the standard bulb in a circular pattern. You can choose which lightsource you want to use via the headiece
mounted switch. Turn one way for incandescent,the opposite for LED. Very simple and straight forward.
When I sent the light to Mark, the 15AH SLA battery was dead. He actually brought it back to life with some TLC. I was pretty impressed but had my doubts because we all know how Lead acid batteries don't like to be completely dicharged.
I got the package back and I was thrilled at the workmanship he put into this light.
It was simple which means reliable. Unfortunatly the 15AH battery was leaking acid and had to be put to sleep. This turned out to be a blessing in diguise. I couldn't find a replacement 15AH sealed battery and Batteries Plus was out of the 10AH units. They did have a 9AH and since I had to have one,I ended up with it. I have to say, I was leary of such a small battery. Like I was saying before I was using a much larger battery and burntime was sufficiant. I like to have a little reserve for getting lost,uh' I mean exploring.
I did a preliminary test on burntime and was really impressed. Of course the real test was in an actual caving environment. So I went to a couple of local caves to try her out.The light was more than adequate for the large caves as well as the smaller passages.
I haven't tried it in any vertical caves (pits) as there arn't any closer than 20mi. And I was short on cash last week. But I don't see having any problems because as stated earlier, I can always switch to the incandescent buld which is very bright.
When I got home I put the light back on the charger to "fill 'er up"
The charger read .2amperes, whatever that means. I'm pretty sure that means "full"
The test started: 20MAR01 4:20AM
At 7:20 PM the light was still too bright to look into. It lit up my small 10'X12' bedroom easily.
21MAR01 6:20AM the light was still easily lighting up my bedroom.
21MAR01 6:20PM light output was considerably less but still brighter than the PT Matrix which I have caved with before. I discontinued the test at this point because I felt that the light had been on much longer than I have ever been in a cave.
The total time of usable light amounted to 38hrs. This is a continuous use time which would be stretched even further because some cavers tend to turn their lights off when not needed to try to extend battery life. Remember the light is our lifeline.
If I needed more, I could always strap two 9AH batteries together. They are small, don't weigh much, and from what Luffokc says, it would more than double my burntime.
If you are a caver I feel you should give a long, hard look at LED's as a primary light source. I feel that they are indeed the best of all worlds.
BTW the original thread is under "Need help in creating ultimate caving light" in the headlamp discussion. I give a little more in depth desription of light output in the caves.Plus there is a picture of the light.
Link: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000470
 
Please forgive my writing style. I realize it is very hard to read now that it has been posted.
 
I too am working on mining / caving lights (about another week for testing and they will be available for sale- Finishing off "endurance" testing now)

I'm an old miner, explorer and caver who used to often spend literally weeks underground without coming into the surface world at all..., and often hundreds of miles from the nearest battery store or place to plug in a charger, so I really wish that this sort of technology had been available when I was active.... would have saved lots of money and logistics headaches.

Anyway:

I have developed two "Wheat" lamp conversion bulbs- (reversable) One with a single LS LED module that gets 80 hours continuous "useful" life on a 7 AH 4 V SLA battery (less than half the amp hour capacity of a standard Wheat battery {all MY real "Wheat" batteries are in somewhat sorry condition too
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} )

The other conversion uses two nichia LEDS for times you only need a little light; enough to see 10 feet ahead or so, plus a LS module for when you need more light That unit can give over 180 hours of "useful" on one charge of a 4 V 7 AH SLA battery.

Also am making some "scratch built" caving / mining lights using Nichia and / or LS LED modules.

There are battery pack options on all of the lights, from SLA and NiMH rechargables to regular alkaline or "heavy duty" batteries. some that will give weeks of continuous operation on one set of batteries or one charge.

Also am making very simple emergency backup LED lamps that may easily be helmet mounted.

Will also have LED bulb replacements to fit in MSA type lamps available in another month or so.

Will post sales info and other details on my LED website,(including all relevant test results) in the not too distant future.
 
Hi fellow cavers, I like all underground dwelling brethren seek the 'ultimate cave light'. I however am looking at the best setup. I really don't like the bulk and weight of those big batteries on your side. Apparently you get used to them but I could do without that extra uncomfort in tight squeezes! What I am thinking might work for me and may end up reasonably cheap and handy in the long run is to use my halogen Petzl zoom as normal- A bright spot, turning it on only when especially needed to save brightness.
I intend to then attach an Arc LS AA to my helmet and will use it as my primary light source for the average caving situation.
It won't add a very noticable weight to my helmet and won't extrude inappropriately if placed in the right position.
As far as battery power goes I will use rechargable AA that when used in my zoom to their potential will be transferred to the LS which will then finish them off.
I know it may sound picky but I don't think it will be a hassle at all.
You have plenty of free moments whilst caving.
And the great thing is the Arc LS is not just specifically a 'caving' light. You can of course use it for whatever other purpose you want.
This system won't obviously be appropriate for all caving conditions such as extremely long trips and caves with large caverns that need lots of light, but I think it will do the standard cave experience just fine.

Well...that is my dream.
 
Here is a link to a cave light LED conversion. It is Garry Petrie's idea of the ultimate caving light. His mega light sounds like it would be seriously bright, and seriously expensive. It could be made more cheaply using the LS.
"The Perfect LED light"
 
Now that was interesting. It just so happns that I have the Mega light mounted to my daughters caving helmet.

After having used just 20 LED's in mine, I feel that having more would be brighter but not neccesarily
better.
From what I have learned, there is the problem of heat and increased battery consumption. Never-the-less, I will be contacting this guy.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DebtFree:
Hey Silviron,

I clicked on your web address link on your "profile" page, and got "this address not found".

Please post your web page address here , so we can keep up with the progress of your new lights.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HI-
Thanks for your interest. I fixed the link in the profile - (didn't have the http:// in front, so it tried to find it as a subdirectory of candlepowerforums.com....)
But the address for the LED stuff is:
http://az123.com/LED/

I don't have an index page up there (Will try to get one up this afternoon or evening) so if your browser won't let you explore a web directory you are out of luck for a while. So far, the only things there are some pictures, two conversion articles and a review on the Dorcy "coolblue" Led light.

Will try to rectify that later today though. Now is time for bed though, been up all night soldering...
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melmso:
Hi fellow cavers, I like all underground dwelling brethren seek the 'ultimate cave light'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I wrote many times before:

I'm using the HDS ActionLight now for two and a half years with very good results. And I'm waiting for the next version wich is overdue for one and a half years. Anyway, besides of that. Next week i will spend my sixt and a half week caving this year .-)
(almost all expedition caving).
And I get about 13-16 trips out of one battery.
Next best caving light now available is the LuxBrite: inexpensive, easily available, small, lightweighted, so it is easy to take two of them. I bought about 25-30 of them now.

I absolutely hate waist mounted batteries and cables running down.
 
You are making me want an Action Light...I thought you had to be Anton Posselt to afford one
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenBar:
You are making me want an Action Light...I thought you had to be Anton Posselt to afford one
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No idea what Anton Posselt is, but:
If you need a light like this, it is not expensive, it is just some money. For me it's price is easily twice as high as for you (comapring all the taxes and the income difference). And although I'm using it a lot, I'm still using primary cells, they are juts much more relyable (and no hassle). Counting everything I spend much more money for caving expeditions (sometimes you have to fly to non-standard destinations). My expenses for lighting are not very high if you count everything. And for most people, carbide is pretty expensive and not easily available (for me its free and I can get plenty of it).

But the ActionLight has one more drawback: The designer refused to integrate several gadgets as he thought they are of no need.
 
The only problem is: The action Light is sorta like the Easter Bunny or better yet,an honest politician. I've heard of them,they've been promised, but one has never darkened my doorstep.
I was trying to acquire one of these lights about a year ago to no avail. it's a great idea, a killer design, but it just doesn't exist but to a lucky few.
If you look at the thread in headlamp discussion, you will see many viable and accessible alternatives. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000470
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
No idea what Anton Posselt is, but:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eisriesenwelt Caves
Austria
First discovered in 1879 by Anton Posselt, the Eisriesenwelt Caves are the largest ice caves in the world.

I envy you living this close to them.
Ice Cave
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenBar:
Eisriesenwelt Caves
Austria
First discovered in 1879 by Anton Posselt, the Eisriesenwelt Caves are the largest ice caves in the world.

I envy you living this close to them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Late correction: I'm not that familiar with the Eisriesenwelt history (only starting at about ~1904). Maybe I've learned it when I made the cave guide certification long time ago (you need to have a govermental cerrtification here for guiding comercial cave trips).
They are no 'caves', it is only one cave.
It is not the largest ice cave in the world (as they always state), neither it is the longest, nor it has the largest ice-filled rooms.
I just met one of the persons who run the comercial cave at congress for cave lighting last November in Hungary.
And it is not close to my home, I think it is more than 100 miles. It is even in a different province (Salzburg).

And to stay a little more on topic: They were very interested in LED lighting. They still make the commercial trips with carbide lights.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:

And it is not close to my home, I think it is more than 100 miles. It is even in a different province (Salzburg).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
================================
I guess that is a matter of perspective. Where I live, I go 80 miles, one way, to shop//:}
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenBar:
And it is not close to my home, I think it is more than 100 miles.

I guess that is a matter of perspective. Where I live, I go 80 miles, one way, to shop
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, it is actually some 105 miles. But less than 100 miles of it is highway and on this crowded highways you can't safely drive more than 120 mph.
And: I have never been there. Having very nice ice caves (even longer ones and larger ones) closer.

I may have mentioned it before: Ice eats up the light, although it is not dark. You ahve to use your highest setting, especially when you have to look down (for choosing the way). I forgot about making a comparison with carbide light, but I will do it (hopefully next year). I want to test HID versus LED versus carbide versus incandescent.

Sorry for beeing offtopic (in the first part).
 
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