CBP has new Elite 1700mAh AA cell coming

[LuxLuthor]

For those using CheapBatteryPacks for their high current AA NiMH which they have not had in stock any new replacements for quite a while, an email newsletter listing:

Elite 1700 AA cell good to 30amps will be in stock sometime mid to late July. These should be a great cell. Apply 30amps to Elite 1700AA and voltage stays higher than 1 volt per cell. So [great] for those flashlight guys.

 

[koala]

I am pretty sure Tom will go berserk when he gets his hands on these... :naughty:

 

[SilverFox]

Hello LuxLuthor,

Interesting...

I believe the Titanium 1800 power max cells will come close to that if you use them "hot" off the charger. It will be interesting to see how these work out.

Do you have any idea if they are flat topped or have nipples?

Tom

 

[LuxLuthor]

I would first assume flat top since they do so many packs.

 

[barkingmad]

They do standard 'packs' for airsoft / rc use - perhaps they should make up some standard ones for us flashaholics!

 

[LuxLuthor]

I keep bugging Mike at CBP's about these. He now says they are "on the water" and expects 1-2 weeks. He did give me their battery graphs which he will need to verify himself, but they clearly outperform either the CBP 1650 or Titanium 1800's.

 

[musicalfruit]

Newbie question: What does "apply 30 amps" mean and why would this be great for flashlights?

Thanks.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Newbie question: What does "apply 30 amps" mean and why would this be great for flashlights?

Thanks.

Well for a given bulb/voltage, there is an optimal current that must be supplied. Going back to Ohm's Law where V=IxR (Voltage = Current x Resistance), there have never been any AA batteries that can provide that much current at these voltage levels for this long.

Let's say you pick a 6V 30W bulb like the Philips 5761, which is designed to put out 765 bulb lumens with 5 Amps of current passing through its filament at 6 Volts.

Then if we want to get more light, we overdrive the bulb up to 7.1 V, and because of the resistance in the filament, we need more current (5.5A) to enable that higher voltage to produce 1370 Bulb Lumens. That resistance and current is just for the bulb. You also have a certain amount of resistance you must overcome with higher current "force" that is in the flashlight spring, aluminum housing, switch, and bulb holder.

Anything that adds resistance to a circuit will require the power source to put out more current if you want to deliver a particular desired voltage...so when all the flashlight resistance is added to the 5761 bulb, you may need 8+ Amps from the batteries to maintain 7.1V in the circuit.

The ONLY way to know how a particular battery will perform under the strain of a particular setup is to do the run plots like you see above, and that SilverFox has so wonderfully done in his thread here.

Like me, until you begin to learn about batteries, most people think you pick up a NiMH 1800 mAh 1.2V battery, and you can count on it being able to deliver 1.2V for most any application. What you begin to realize is when higher current is demanded of the battery as is the case with incandescent flashlights, their performance sags down below 1.2V very dramatically, and many cannot pump out more than a few Amps.

So if this Elite 1700 AA battery delivers as promoted, it is really a revolutionally breakthrough in NiMH performance. Elite has a fabulous performance track record in the 2/3A and SubC battery sizes...so I doubt this is just hype.

 

[EssLight]

I'll be very impressed if they can pull 30 amps out of a AA cell. But it sure wouldn't last long at that rate. Assuming the x-axis of that graph is mAh, and you use a cutoff of 1.0 volts, at 30 amps the battery delivers 1500 mAh. Which works out to ... 3 minutes of runtime. :ironic: But I guess the point is, it's an *intense* 3 minutes.:devil:

EssLight

 

[REparsed]

I can't wait! I used to use the 1650's in pre-made packs for ROPs, now I can make some more.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'll be very impressed if they can pull 30 amps out of a AA cell. But it sure wouldn't last long at that rate. Assuming the x-axis of that graph is mAh, and you use a cutoff of 1.0 volts, at 30 amps the battery delivers 1500 mAh. Which works out to ... 3 minutes of runtime. :ironic: But I guess the point is, it's an *intense* 3 minutes.:devil:

EssLight

It's more a way to demonstrate the power of the construction, that a practical use at 30A. I guess if you were motivated to use that many Amps, you could set up 2, 3, or 4p configurations.

 

[EssLight]

It's more a way to demonstrate the power of the construction, that a practical use at 30A.

Yes, I am aware of that. Being able to push 30 Amps means if you are only drawing 10, it will hold its voltage even better, and you have a wide range of flexibility for whatever power draw you want to put on it. It's just the extremity of the 30 amp value that got me thinking about the short runtime if you were to actually use that amp rate.

 

[musicalfruit]

Like me, until you begin to learn about batteries, most people think you pick up a NiMH 1800 mAh 1.2V battery, and you can count on it being able to deliver 1.2V for most any application. What you begin to realize is when higher current is demanded of the battery as is the case with incandescent flashlights, their performance sags down below 1.2V very dramatically, and many cannot pump out more than a few Amps.

Thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense now.

So this is more for incandescents than LEDs then?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense now.

So this is more for incandescents than LEDs then?

In general I would say yes more for incands....but some are making multiple LED's in a head, so not sure if those demand higher amps in this range.

 

[paulr]

Given the amount of leakage problems the USL project had with the 1650's, I'd be wary of these.

 

[FILIPPO]

can anyone suppose the avarage price per battery?
I'd like to buy a good quantity:devil:

EDIT: can I use the flat-top batteries type with FM's battery adapters?
if not, will I need to buy battery packs or there is another way to solve the problem?

 

[Ron Schroeder]

I think I will try to cram 7 5W Luxeons in a cheap stubby 4AA cell Dorcy light with those cells.

 

[LuxLuthor]

can anyone suppose the avarage price per battery?
I'd like to buy a good quantity:devil:

EDIT: can I use the flat-top batteries type with FM's battery adapters?
if not, will I need to buy battery packs or there is another way to solve the problem?

You can extrapolate between CBP's other Elite cells:

• 2/3A @ $2.50
• 4/5A @ $3.25
• 3600 SubC @ $4.95
• 4500 SubC @$7.95

So I would guestimate AA will be around $3.50 to $4.00

Since he will most likely have flat tops (but possibly nipple tops also), you can put a magnet on top of a flat top. These are not the major safety concern as are the Li-Ions if they short. There are also small nylon washers that magnets fit inside of that keeps them from sliding over and shorting.

 

[FILIPPO]

You can extrapolate between CBP's other Elite cells:

• 2/3A @ $2.50
• 4/5A @ $3.25
• 3600 SubC @ $4.95
• 4500 SubC @$7.95

So I would guestimate AA will be around $3.50 to $4.00

Since he will most likely have flat tops (but possibly nipple tops also), you can put a magnet on top of a flat top. These are not the major safety concern as are the Li-Ions if they short. There are also small nylon washers that magnets fit inside of that keeps them from sliding over and shorting.

thanks lux!!:thumbsup:

 

[LuxLuthor]

thanks lux!!:thumbsup:

He just gave me another update of Sept 8th. arrival...slight delay, but coming!