Cheapskate AGM SLA LA Gel Cell floater

VidPro

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,441
Location
Lost In Space
The search begins:
Yesterday i searched far and wide for the perfect charger to charge and maintain these &$^@# Gell Cell batteries. this particular one is a genisis 12v 12A.
Bench testing:
tested on the bench supply with a 14.0-14.1V voltage controlled input the "trickle" it would drop to is very very low. i figure about 13.7-13.8v is where i wanted my voltage control, to both charge and peak end.

Wal Wart the Usual:
Now usually they would hand us one of them 1A 12V type linear transformers, CHEAPer than me they are :mad: they will eventually kill the battery. either slow overcharge, or take them off and no maintance :sick:

Hey we got one of them:
various 12V LINEAR (transformer) power supplies (there is like 15 old wall warts laying around here) PEAK voltages are at 16-18v, so i started adding voltage dropping diodes, as regulators wouldnt fit the bill, had the Float perfected , but the CHARGE was to low by the time i got the drop in. I needed a more stable voltage control, instead of a kludge.

What do the people say:
reviews for things like the cheap harbor freight , didnt look so good. depending on the needs.
many devices still did the trickle, been there done that , got the dead battery to prove it.
other reviews for other devices suggested the 13.3v voltage controlled devices are to low for a SLA, although it will work. and suggestion was that 13.7v device costing some $50 would do the trick. $50 the battery only costs $40 :grin2:

Hey they got one of them at radioshack:
radio shack has a 13.5 & 30V 1amp Switching power supply. I tested various switching power supplies (unlike linear) once they reach the supply voltage they are much more regulated. Although switching power supplies are not nessisarily long lived.
so that would work a 13.5V 1amp wall wart, it would charge and peak at (i figure) a max of about 13.8v. but costs $30 :p ok did i mention what a cheapskate i am :grin2: plus if somone moved the switch that wouldnt be fun.
the idea here being a 13.5+V voltage regulated charge, that would charge faster as the voltage on the battery dropped by default, and peak at about the correct place for a float.

And finnaly:
then i came across a diamond in the rough, adorned by gold no less.
For freaking $20 Black&Deckner sells this little switching type battery charge maintainer at Lowes home store. Sells for $30 almost everywhere else.
I get it in and not only does it slow down neer the end of charge, but seems to do a quite nice FLoat maintain too.
and its UL approved, Fcc certified and polarity protected, fused , and Made in CHINA :mecry:
Plus (just what i needed) it will do 1 amp Or 2 amps too.
most reviews for it were very good, unlike some other similar cheap devices.

Soooo, after having all the meters set up, 1 ampmeter, and 1 voltmeter, 1 discharge light, for my kludges, i can now test things about it.
Next post some tests.
If you want me to test something else , just ask. basically its just working out fine.
 
Last edited:
Testing: Black&Deckner BM2B Automatic Battery Maintainer 2amp.

1 x 3way slide switch. 2Amp-Off-1Amp

3 little lights
Bad Battery - RED
Normal Charge - Yellow
Float/maintain Charge - Green (green light keep operating when plugged in and switch is in OFF pos) ewww.

Ok all the below currents and voltages are EFFECTED by the connections that i have for testing, shunt and wiring and all change the totals.
The testing is for my purposes only , and serves my purposes and intents well, but is not lab accurate because i dont really care :)
Reading is battery voltage (reasonably accurate) and Current flow between Charge and battery (less acurate)

1 Amp switch setting
Peak charge amperage switched to 1A = ~1.16A
current flow for THIS battery before switched to CV ~.67A
Batt Voltage of Normal charge before switching to CV (float) = ~13.7V (this is not charge voltage, as charge voltage is higher obviously)
current flow for THIS battery after switched to CV = ~.01A
Restart faster charge, Batt voltage = ~13.0V (restart after discharge or use)
Currrent at beginning of float - ~.01A
start voltage of float on this battery - ~13.4v (after stabalise from normal charge)
Max voltage of float on this battery - ~13.1v (Float not maintained)
Current after 12hours Float - ~.01A (float current didnt change YET, but it is likly to start a normal charge burst in a few hours again)

2 Amp switch setting
Peak charge amperage switched to 2A = ~2.0A
current flow for THIS battery before switched to CV ~.80A
Batt Voltage of Normal charge before switching to CV (float) = ~13.6V to ~13.7V (this is not charge voltage, as charge voltage is higher obviously)
current flow for THIS battery after switched to CV = ~.01A
Restart faster charge, Batt voltage = ~13.06V (restart after discharge or use)
Currrent at beginning of float - ~.01A
start voltage of float on this battery - ~13.4v (after stabalise from normal charge)
Max voltage of float on this battery -
Current after 12hours Float --
 
Last edited:
I think I payed around $30 for "battery tender" style unit that charges at ~2A IIRC. It seems to work very well. My gut tells me that this is just the price that must be paid to get something that does this correctly. The Lowes unit is a great find if it does this correctly.

How much time and money did you spend trying to only spend $20?

I make the mistake more often than not, trying to find a way to get away with paying less. By the time I'm done, I've often payed more if I calculate my time at a low value and maybe throw in some gas for driving around (for some purchases).

Eric
 
How much time and money did you spend trying to only spend $20?

Eric

I think only 4-5 Hours :) that is about how long it would take me to Make a perfect one for $20. cheapskates dont add up thier time, if they did they wouldnt be so freaking cheap :cool:
 
If you have a pile of old electronics then you might have what you need.

Use two LM117. One couples as a current limiter right after the power supply. The next as a regulated power supply. Adjust for a max voltage of 13.6 v.

An unregulated wall ward of 16-18 v nonimal or a 20 v regulated should be fine. Give the LM117 adequate cooling and adjust max current according to you battery's capability. Voila you've made yourself a cheap standby charger.

On the other hand if I remember correct I've spend about $10 for mine 2 amp wall wart standby charger which is capable of charging 2, 6 and 12 v batteries.

If you want the very best then check out this. It's basically like a C9000 for SLA's. Charging and discharging with high pulsed currents to prevent and even (partly at least) reverse sulfation (which is what kills SLA). Are available in version for high capacity (S)LA too.
 
the 12v (linear magnetic) really are ~12v with a good LOAD on them, they just peak so much higher because of the sine wave transformer conversion thing. if i put a big voltage drop in with a regulator, i didnt think it would have enough Current when it has to do the fast charge recovery thing.
so i would have to use the 15v supply to run a regulator on, and have enough inital voltage.

the project (this time) is for the security system, so each battery gets its OWN maintainer (being 20+ feet apart) , sorta like it would be with emergency light things. so that is another reason price and size was important. each battery having its own high priced charger would be outta its league.
i hate SLAs but these will just sit there charged 99.8% of the time, still sucks how long they will still probably last, but at least this time it wont be because of a slight continual topping.

that just leaves, one problem i should test somehow:
eventually the battery will DIE, 3-4 years from now nobody is gonna give a crud. a few cells go bad, and before they just did a slow bake with the wal warts. this thing says it wont charge a battery that has "fallen below 2volts" uhhh ok so after 5of6 cells is complete toast it will stop trying :)
i was thinking more along the lines of after 48hours trying to get a (now dead) battery to reach 12V it might just BEEP continually instead of charge.
 
Last edited:
well that didnt work out the same as my voltage control did. not what i was expecting

the float amperage is sooo low, that it is getting close to kicking back into charge again. so it looks like with the way it is acting, it will do a short burst charge every now and then, then switch back to this low current float thing.
i dont know if i like that, if its gonna be 13.0, then charge back to 13.7 then float back down to 13 again, over and over . i would rather have it HOLD with voltage controlled 13.3v if its gonna do that.

still works but i thought the float even with the low amps would hold it. mabey it will after it does it a few times with no discharging occuring.

Added:
3 more hours later, the voltage is still reading ~13.1v (the 12hour reading), it might just be holding up there, as it has not changed from there.
 
Last edited:
i got bored, and now i am testing the radioshack 13.5V (30v also) 1A switching power supply thing.
Battery at ~13.5V it still puts in ~.02A
Then as things got quiet, i noticed a sound, sure enough the cell has tiny bits of gas leaving it :scowl:
armed with that info, i now dont want a 13.7v charge OR float :)
and the 13.1v holding float on the B&D is looking pretty good.

I think i want my max voltage to be lower.
So what do UPSes use as thier float voltages anyways? i thought i had it worked out on the bench supply, where i had full control, and now i am "back to the drawing board"
indeed the 13.5+v was still pumping in enough Current still to push it over to overcharge , so lowring it a bit should work, but i didnt think i was that close to an overcharge :ironic:

adding in a single .7v drop diode to the RS 13.5v switching supply, drops the voltage TOO far this time, which is a good sign that the switching supply is more regulated or locked to its voltage unlike the linear transformers.

Slight drop:
adding in a .4V diode looks like it might work about right, being ~25ma when battery at ~13.0v
after some battery discharge ~12.5v , runs ~120ma with .4v diode thing, slow, battery voltage doesnt drop so much on discharge, so it doent ramp up in current as much.
next is to test ability for longer term float with that same configuration.
 
Last edited:
that didnt work ^ argg, the diodes voltage drop measured is .5v
i did a discharge of ~2amps of its capacity, to see what would happen.
now it still at ~.02A and ~12.75V about 15 hours later, yaawwn.

i am thinking the B&D did pretty good, compared to singular voltage max.
 
I used a 7Ah SLA gel cell to provide power to maintain the preset memory of an old car stereo. The stereo was powered by a 13.8V regulated power supply, so I put a diode in series with the gel cell and ended up with 13.5 volts at the gell cell terminals. I used the SLA like that for about four years, now I have the stereo powered by a solar system and still use the gel cell for charging radio controlled airplane batteries at the airfield.

I would think that 13.5V would be low enough that the SLA wouldn't vent.
 
ok thanks, so the RS was >||< close to doing that, if i could just take the tip of the voltage off.
 
well i finished it. Different :) as usual.
I put the B&D on the 12A LA gell cell, BUT you see i have an added lights for charge and battery state (so i can tell if charge is maintained, and not dead yet).
so it floats down to often, and click charge, click, float, click charge :banghead:ARRRGGG.

so i put the diode in on IT, to maintain the float lower and just keep it UP not "topped always". Of course once i put the ONE diode in, the charger couldnt See the battery voltage on its testing.
Uhhh, now what. resister wont work, because it is reading voltage, i needed an actual voltage drop.
2 diodes, one turned one way and the other turned the other. like the regulated 123s , why didnt i think of that :huh:
|---|>---|
|---<|---|
the charger still THINKS the battery is charging and floating at selected voltages , and the battery sits a bit down from there instead.
that drops the voltage a bit, from where they designed it , and Hopefully it will live happily ever after.

--------------------------

The RS 13.5V somehow sits more around a regulated voltage of 13.3V ??
which makes little sence, because I swear I had tested it above that. (but mabey that was before i drew 3amps out at 30V :mad: )

I stuffed it on a 12V 1500ma ni-cd pack with the same diode idea. that cheap ni-cd pack actually droops more than the gell and does a slow trickle of 10ma-30ma depending on the temps at the time. it is floating around 13.1-3v now.
it also has the charge state lights on it (or dead light depending on how you look at it)
i suspect it will need cycles every once in a while.

now i just wait 5 years and see which one lives.
 
Last edited:
Top