Coming Soon: Arc-LS Flashlight

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Did I read that right, 18 Lumens. I would have been happy at half that. I carry two lights at all times. currently its an E1 and some other SureFire depending on how I'm dressed and what else I am carrying. If this light were to only produce 10 Lumens Id be throwing away my two E1's. If this light can come close to 18 Lumens that would be just icing on the cake. A two or three cell SureFire on my person and an ARC-5 on the key chain. That should cover all of my carry on the person lighting needs. I'm really excited now. I did see an earlier post asking for bigger packs. Thats fine but maybe that should be a different model. I'am excited about this light.
 
Wow, go away for 2 days and you miss a lot
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Peter, I agree with what you are doing, that is using the current step-up and having the ability to use either 1, 2 or eventually 3 cells. I will most likely use a single 123. So can you give us a ball park on the mA draw on the LS?

1AA = ?mA
2AA = ?mA
3AA = ?mA
4AA = ?mA
1 123 = ?mA
2 123 = ?mA

I am just wondering what keeps it within the 350mA, 3 AA's or is two the limit before it starts to overdrive, or ???
 
I can't find the 18 lumens comment, it must be buried somewhere in the 100+ responses before mine somewhere
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I agree that I start wondering who to give my E1 to, if I can get a ~15 lumen LED light that's nearly the same size. Very exciting, I'll be looking forward to this thing. I love the multiple-battery options, too.

Somewhere in this huge string, I'm sure Gransee told us the ETA ... can anyone still remember when the date is, and repost? thanks!

Joe
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug:
Oh yeah? Who is that?

Doug<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked the company if I could say it publicly, they didn't respond???

Alan
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:

We will do further testing once we have a proper heat sink (and more LEDs to sacrifice). This is not a high priority right now, because the current, balanced Arc-LS does not overdrive the LED. Remember: This is a future option for people who really want it and it probally will be overdriven just as much as the "other guys". I hope I did not alarm anyone with my post earlier.
Peter Gransee<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter, I don't mind what direction you pick for, it's your business after all. You're right that we have a choice - follow your choice or don't follow your choice.

Honestly, I don't want to jump in anymore after you picked your choice. I have to after you keep mentioning that *not overdriving* the LED for the sake of quality. It's a twist of words. You're underdriving it instead of not overdriving it. 350ma for LS is not overdriving it, it is the normal current you should feed for LS. 550ma or 700ma is overdriving it. No one ever in this thread suggest to overdrive it to 550ma or 700ma except yourself.

VW's Beetle Division head just announced "We have licensed with porsche on their newly released 1000 hp engine. This engine is desperately needed by all vehicle makers and long-awaited by all our sports car fans. That's not all, we also continue our best milage beetle reputation. Even with this most powerful 1000hp engine in the world, we still keep 30 miles/gallon. The good news is, even after we tuned this engine down to 100hp, it's still have better milage than our current 90hp model. Isn't it GREAT!"

Alan
 
Yes, the LS LED used in Arc LS could provide 18 lumens under Luxen Star's recommended current - 350ma. However, Peter think that most of his customers do not need the brightness of this LED at the cost of shorter runtime, he decided not to utilize its power and way underdrive it to same brightness level of 5 regular LEDs.

Please refer to my previous post about the Porsche 1000 hp engine.

Alan
 
Hi folks,

I don't want to get misunderstood that I don't think Arc LS is a good lite due to my previous posts.

In fact, Arc LS is a good LED lite at its brightness/size/runtime ratio.

I put up those posts only to clarify that driving Lexon Star LED at their recommended current 350ma is NOT overdriving it. LumiLED won't be happy to hear their customers (lite manufacturers) saying that driving LS at their recommended current will undercut its quality.

Alan
 
Thank you Alan, for saying so much more gracefully what I could not (I liked your car comparison). I too appreciate Gransee`s effort to bring us a top quality light and I feel my post was to harsh and failed to offer any solutions.

I don`t know what the answer is. The same step up that will allow enough light on 3 volts, overdrives at 6 and maybe even at 4.5.

If the light was set to run at 3.4 volts (350 ma~18 lumen) with 3 AA batts (this would be my option choice) as the starting point (standard) it would need a step down or resistor or pulse modulator.

However, if this was done, while it would probably run on 6 volts (2 123`s...a little overdriven) it would run poorly (if at all) on only 3 volts...and the current approach is to make it as small as possible, putting size above all else (1 123 batt) as I understand it.

I can`t see a good solution unless a magic regulator can be found. And I realise Gransee`s solution may in fact be the only one that meets his "brightest for it`s size" goal.

Anyway, I would like to appologize to Gransee and all the members for my hasty and poorly thought out post.

Ken
 
My guess is 3v would put the LED at about 350mA and maybe 50 mA with 1.5v So I guess before we all get worried about underdriving or overdriving the LED we have to find out what the case really is. Peter is probably running test on all this right now
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If 2 cells or one 123 would drive it right about it's rated level that would be great. Think about what we do to the Nichia's, they are rated about 30mA and I can't remember the last flashlight that did that, probably the Infinity, almost everyone just about doubled it and we all expected it now in a flashlight. So if we can get the same amount of light from overdriving 5 Nichias, to driving one LS at about the right level, then that sounds the best way to go to me.
 
QUOTE BY GRANSEE: YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD (HOW DID I MISS THIS OBVIOUS ADVANTAGE?) THE NICHIAS ARE IN THEIR OVERDRIVEN STATE WITH 3 VOLTS IN, WHILE AS THE LS IS JUST GETTING STARTED.

Maybe I misunderstood this...if the LS is running at 350 ma (or close) on three volts...that would be great. I would be very happy with this.

And if in addition it would be as bright as a AAA Arc on 1.5 volts that would be perfect.

In the future I would like to see a 2 C option for bright extended run time and 1 D for looong run time
smile.gif
 
Very excited about the direction that your Arc-Ls is going. I hope in the design process you do not loose the recessed lanyard ring, nor the single AA and single 123 option. Hope you can keep this thing relatively small. Im a person who carries two lights at all times. One for general utility and one of many that is very bright. I am seeking a light that puts out a usable amount of light but not seeking the brightest possible. Just good utility value with good for the brightness runtime. My bright light is one of four SureFires depending on where I'm going and how I'm dressed. I try to use these lights a little a possible and pull the batteries when there probably only 1/4 drained. My utility light has gone through many changes. I tried a variety of small LED lights but none of them cut the musturd. The infinity would work for some tasks but I had to often go to the SureFire which ended up being the opposite extream in that they were too bright for the task at hand due to reflection and glare. I have resorted to an E1 as being the most practical utility light for me at this time. I have tried the infinity, the stylus, and the photon. They were either too dim, or lacked runtime, or were not practical. From the sounds of things, the Arc-Ls will put the E1's into early retirement. Perhaps someday the other lights including a Z12 will also get put into retirement as the technology improves. I think you have a winner of a utility light comming up.
For my vote, here are the features that are important to me.
1. produce a usable amount of light for a wide variety of utilitarian tasks. If 80% or more of my lighting tasks could be accomplished with modest to decent run times, I would be thrilled.
2. Keep the size relatively small, if it were in the ballpark of an E1, it would be perfect for me. I carry lots of stuff with me everyday and don't want to be wieghed down with overly bulky items.
3. Keep the lanyard ring. I would find this very useful
4. As many single cell battery options that are practical would be a nice plus. I like the idea of being able to use batteries from other items that are half drained without having to be concerned with avoidance of battery mixing.

I have been looking for some time for a 123 powered single cell light besides the low runtime SureFires. Can't wait to get one in my hands but I hope we aren't rushing you either, I know rushing can lead to mistakes and I want to you to get it right.
Good luck and I hope all goes well with the Arc-Ls project.
 
It has, I think, been suggested that the single cell AA battery option should be dropped.
Please do not do this.
I do hope that in the finalization of the design process that at least the following features be retained.
1. The lanyard ring
2. The use of single AA and 123 batteries
3. Its somewhat compact size
I of course have no objections at all if you meet the desires of others that want multi-celled lights and I hope they get what they want. I just don't want to get left out with my single cell desires. I plan on purchasing any and all single cell options that get added in the future but Im not sure if I will be interested in any multi cell packs beyond the 2 cell AA. Perhaps in the future a third Arc design is justified to fill other wants in an Led light from the nature of the responces.
Good luck and thank you for the direction the Arc-Ls is taking.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan:

That's why I think either ARC-5 (stay with conventional LEDs to play safe) or ARC-LS to get its regular power.

I believed you have been led to believe ARC-LS would retire your E1, it's not. I think you missed the key point. Please read on.

Lexoen Star (LS) LED from LumiLED is designed to generate 18 Lumens that shock the LED industry. This 18 Lumens brightness could *only* be acheived if flashlight manufacturer feed the LED with the recomended current of 350ma. If they follow this recommendation, this single LED will easily make your E1 and other small flashlight early retirement. However, Peter decided not to take advantage of this LED's strength and way *underdrive* it to make it only as bright as regular LEDs (may be 1 or 2 lumen? I'm no genius on calculating this). If so, why use the LS instead of those regular LEDs.

The major problem I could see so far in the response of ARC-LS is, many LED users who have heard of the strength of Lexoen Star LED might thought that they'll be getting bright 18 lumens on their ARC-LS and getting extremely excited. I believed that you're one of them and that's why you expect to retire your E1 (15 lumen). Don't ever dream of it. I would say (hopefully I am wrong), its brightness should be in the neighborhood of a Batonlite.

Again, as I have already emphasis in my previous post, even with brightness of Batonlite but with the size of 123, it is a GREAT LED lite (high brightness/runtime/size ratio).

However, this might make the 2AA and 1AA configuration less attractive.

For 2AA configuration, its size and brightness will be similiar to Batonlite but without Batonlite's tailcap switch function, not to mention that it costs a lot more than Batonlite ($29.00). Hopefully, it could be as sturdy as Batonlite. What serial no? Every Batonlite comes with serial no. Mine is #001553 (anyone beats mine)

For 1AA configuration, it will only be a bit brighter than Photon II (according to Peter). In this brightness, it will compete with its own (great product) ARC-AAA ($24.95) and ARC-AAA is a lot smaller and could be a real keychain LED light.

Honestly, I still will buy ARC-LS in only 123 setup (if its review is good from Brock) and ARC-AAA.

If ARC-LS drives LS in recommended current, I will definitely get the bundle.

Of course, I do understand that Peter does have a dilemma on its tough design. If he goes for 350ma as recommened current, it would be tough for single AA design due to its common circuit on the head. He might have to abandon single AA after all. But the Single AA was the original design and grows to multiple setup after his kind and hard research. Tough .... He just can't make everybody happy. Let him call the shot.

Alan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fully agree with Alan on letting Peter do it the way he thinks is best.

Has anyone thought out that the Arc AAA XL for $34.95 might be the LS with the single AAA? If so, why not for those who want it. I think the LS should run at its full potential , which I think means either 2 AA or 1 (maybe 2) 123's, am I right or wrong??? Peter said 15 hours on one AA, but at what brightness level??? Any way you cut it Peter will come up with the best we've seen so far - or at least I think that's what he is trying to do.
grin.gif


Let's see what happens and buy as we each see our own personal needs (read desires
grin.gif
grin.gif
).

Best Regards,
 
Thanks for your good input!

The target ship date for the Arc-LS has been changed to the end of August. We need the extra time for more mechanical and electrical prototypes.

The reason for switching to the LS (as I said earlier) was to increase the efficiency and beam quality over the 5-Nichia solution.

Further testing with the new prototypes will help us tune the performance. I will post updates as we have them.

Peter Gransee
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
Alan, sometimes an overpowered engine is a negative for some utilitarian purposes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jon, I can't agree with you more. That's why economic cars always outsold Porshce. However, installing a Porsche engine and tuned it to match a economic car performance is not brilliant idea especially when you're charging it at Porsche range.

That's why I think either ARC-5 (stay with conventional LEDs to play safe) or ARC-LS to get its regular power.

I believed you have been led to believe ARC-LS would retire your E1, it's not. I think you missed the key point. Please read on.

Lexoen Star (LS) LED from LumiLED is designed to generate 18 Lumens that shock the LED industry. This 18 Lumens brightness could *only* be acheived if flashlight manufacturer feed the LED with the recomended current of 350ma. If they follow this recommendation, this single LED will easily make your E1 and other small flashlight early retirement. However, Peter decided not to take advantage of this LED's strength and way *underdrive* it to make it only as bright as regular LEDs (may be 1 or 2 lumen? I'm no genius on calculating this). If so, why use the LS instead of those regular LEDs.

The major problem I could see so far in the response of ARC-LS is, many LED users who have heard of the strength of Lexoen Star LED might thought that they'll be getting bright 18 lumens on their ARC-LS and getting extremely excited. I believed that you're one of them and that's why you expect to retire your E1 (15 lumen). Don't ever dream of it. I would say (hopefully I am wrong), its brightness should be in the neighborhood of a Batonlite.

Again, as I have already emphasis in my previous post, even with brightness of Batonlite but with the size of 123, it is a GREAT LED lite (high brightness/runtime/size ratio).

However, this might make the 2AA and 1AA configuration less attractive.

For 2AA configuration, its size and brightness will be similiar to Batonlite but without Batonlite's tailcap switch function, not to mention that it costs a lot more than Batonlite ($29.00). Hopefully, it could be as sturdy as Batonlite. What serial no? Every Batonlite comes with serial no. Mine is #001553 (anyone beats mine)

For 1AA configuration, it will only be a bit brighter than Photon II (according to Peter). In this brightness, it will compete with its own (great product) ARC-AAA ($24.95) and ARC-AAA is a lot smaller and could be a real keychain LED light.

Honestly, I still will buy ARC-LS in only 123 setup (if its review is good from Brock) and ARC-AAA.

If ARC-LS drives LS in recommended current, I will definitely get the bundle.

Of course, I do understand that Peter does have a dilemma on its tough design. If he goes for 350ma as recommened current, it would be tough for single AA design due to its common circuit on the head. He might have to abandon single AA after all. But the Single AA was the original design and grows to multiple setup after his kind and hard research. Tough .... He just can't make everybody happy. Let him call the shot.

Alan
 
Peter, Any chance of posting a picture of the Arc-LS? If there are no pictures, how about a drawing? I'd like to get a general idea of the size/shape it will likely have. Is there any way to make it focusable? I doubt it, but this is one feature I miss in most LED flashlights. Thanks.
 
Hmm. I'm kinda glad some of you more intelligent folk are talking about the LS utilization issue, as I must admit I don't grasp every detail... but it does sound like there's a reasonable compromise being made in terms of usable output and battery life. I just hope there isn't too much of a compromise...

Hmm. A generic question for you folks... what level of brightness should I expect from the Arc-LS? While reading the thread, I get hints of it being as bright as the Arc-5, and then I get hints of it being *insanely* bright...

I want it to kick my Eternalight3, Trek7, and Nightbuster8's butt out of the water... Is it way too early for such discussion?
 
Heh. Upon re-reading my post, I must admit I come across as some one-dimensional numb-skull. I'm.... not that bad, really. =D

Ultimately, I'm looking for a good, usable flashlight... no doubt about that...

However, I think the whole thread about how awesome the LS is, is screwing with my mind and my expectations... and I guess I would appreciate a reality check from the more senior members of this forum...

Loving this thread,

- kaz
 
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