Coming Soon: Arc-LS Flashlight

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Hi Kjmori, you do not come across as a numb-skull. I did.

Gransse announced some time back that he would come out with a small 5 led light and a great concept...changable batt compartments...two of the options would be 2 AA or 1 123a...3 volt power supplies...this would be the voltage that the new light would be optimized for.

You could also use a 1.5 volt power supply (1 AA batt compartment) that would run the light for a much longer time but at a lower brightness level (as the step-up is optimized for 3 volts).

However, the New Luxeon Star led is now coming available and he has found it works better than the 5 Nichia led`s he had originally planed for.

His simple question to us was...would we rather have 5 Nichia led`s or 1 LS in the light he has planed.

Being the jerk I sometimes can be, I wanted the question to be...how bright do you want the LS to be. And I began pestering him to redesign the whole light.

He may already have purchased the step-ups to use with the original design...and was being nice enough to give us the led option.

As I said in my earlier post, I wish I had not done that...I just did not think and posted my disapointment hastily.

Gransee did not disapoint us with his AAA...in fact it beat our expectations. I`m sure he is burning the midnight oil trying to come as close as he can to pleasing everyone.
 
Please do not be hard on yourself on our account! I personally find your posts a very good read and because of you (and others) we will be looking at some other circuits for the LS. This week and next belong to the AAA size but the following week the parts for the LS proto should be in and we will look at trading some of the long run time for a slight increase in brightness. At that same time we will do some tests on the enhanced AAA (XL?).

So, look for some more data in about a week and a half's time!

Thanks for your support!
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Peter Gransee
 
Hi Guys,

I'm coming in way late on this discussion, but it's been a very busy couple o' months between some serious family illness, watching kids and house and work and hydroponics tomatoes contest and dogs and...

I'll try to weigh in a concisely as possible, but I've always been the wordy type, so try to bear with me.

I have always been an efficiency buff... when I first got into LEDs, it was because
a) they are more efficient (in the range/uses) that I would use them in, and
b) they finally had white leds...

It's been a good 20 years since I've had to do any electronic cct design, so I'm probably very rusty, but... one of the thing that has always galled me was the fact that passive current/voltage control has always been lossy/in-efficient. That resistive current limiting... can easily be less than 50% efficient. Even the semiconductor-based linear current limiting can be abysmally in-efficient. When I started looking at re-tooling to build my own, I realized that I wanted to get every drop of electrons that I could to the LED junction instead of having them burn off in friction/heat. Using 9 v batteries meant burning off electrons to control the amount of current heading into that PAL SMC LED... and you could feel it if you burned your finger on the LM318 chip while lighting the room w/ the cover off. 9v's don't have that great of current density to begin with -- less than two AA's, but they DO have a voltage higher than the 3.4-3.6v required to drive the white LED's into their "linear" conduction range. Two AA's might give a meager glow to a WLED, but no real "light" is shed on the matter. Step up to 3 AA's, and you've back in the "burn off the excess" to control the current, and even then, when the cells have gone from 1.5v each down to 1.2v each, you've exhausted your range and you're back to under-driving your LED w/ only 1/3 of your current capacity used. There was always the NiCds -- they put out "about" 1.2 volts (or 1.4, for the ones I used) so a three-stack would give you 3.6v (to 4.2v) -- just the right level for the LED to sip current at its leisure -- until the meager current density was drained enough so that the v level would drop into the under-driving level. Sigh. There HAD to be a better way.

(For those of you who are easily bored, you may wish to skip down a way... I do belabor a point below).

When I found the Maxim ccts, I was in heaven... step-up/ step-down, high efficiency (compared to the 40-60% of the passive/linear methods), etc. Single-cell, multi-cell, low-current/high-current... it was all there. The only problem being... these are absolutely miniature devices... not like the discrete components or even ICs I designed with. The ccts are cheap, too... $1.68-$3.?? for the majority of their products -- BUT those little "chips" are about 2/16's x 3/16's of an inch in size. How the heck does one "bread-board" those?
You don't. You need cct layout, and mechanical parts assembly. You couldn't even buy the protoboards w/out laying out $60-120 for a SINGLE cct. NatSemi and a couple of other companies have similar products, but again, if you want a prototype, you have to build it yourself or pay $$$ to get one to tinker with.
Why bother?
Well... 85%- 95% efficiency. SINGLE-cell input. HIGH current capacity output... What does that mean? Well, AA input down to .6v will provide 3.6v at up to .5 amps at varying efficiencies above 78%. Efficiency goes up w/ V(in), but still, 78% is not bad at all... what did that mean to me?

AA alk cell: 1.5v @ 2850 mAh (my memory... ) means 4275 mWh -- pretty nice considering I can buy them in bulk for $0.37 each... Those 9v batteries I use to throw at the PAL? 5355 mWh @ $1.50 each... and over 50% of that goes up the stack as heat...
With the Maxim ccts and an AA, if you "estimate" 78% efficiency, you have approx 3334 mWh available at the voltage of your choice... if you merely drive the WLED at it's rated current (20mA) you can get a _theoretical_ time of 46 hours... probably closer to 40, but that's a "full" brightness. Drive it at 40 mA for 20 hours? 60mA for 15 hours? All theory, as I don't have $60-$120 to "burn" for the proto board...
If you use the two cell input, efficiency is even higher. How hard do you want to drive 'em? ON-board current out can hit 500mA (3A for some ccts), and w/ external components, 5-10A. Granted, that takes your 40 hours down to a mere 1.8 hours (probably less), but you could drive a mess o' LEDs w/ that -- 25 at 20mA?

The best thing? It's constant. No sliding current capability... no voltage variations... CONSISTANT LIGHT OUTPUT.
You set the voltage and it provides as much current as you need, up to the capacity of the device -- and LEDs are current driven devices (IIRC). Two AA cells -- about the same size as one 9v, only now you have 7W available for your paltry 74 cents.

(Still w/ me? Let's pick up here...)

When the CMG Infinity and then the Brinkman came out, I was very happy. They aren't efficient, but they make up for it by using inexpensive batteries... The CMG is v. small for it's day, the Brinkman v. bright. But the only way that there would be advancements would be through better power ccts or through better LEDs. We have both now. If you're running your LEDs off of a car battery, you don't care about the efficiency... any amount that you "burn" is negligible compared to the capacity of the battery. Similarly, if all you care about is bright, battery capacity isn't really that big of a deal... you're willing to throw weight and cost at the problem of intensity.
Me? I wanted it all... bright enough to see to do what I was doing, but efficient or cost-effective so that it didn't cost me $$ each time I had an outing... the CMG is plenty for 90% of my work -- because 90% of my use is running through the HOUSE late at night, or working up very close... in either case, I know the territory. But what if it could get better? That's what we're here to discuss... my druthers in the matter at hand?

Size: Smaller is better for me, because I am a casual user who needs something easy and convenient to carry. As with concealed carry, the .22 in your pocket beats the .45 at home in the dresser.
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Battery selection: Important because it translates to $/use. Working by the side of the road late at night? Those extra couple of hours bought by the better cct are mighty handy.
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Intensity: Important because it is related to $/use or task. The trade off again...
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Circuitry: Wide-range step-up, OR, step-up/step-down cctry... 1-,2-,3-,4-,6-cell input? Doesn't really matter, because the efficiency is about the same, and the light output depends upon the V(out) design -- and the LED uses as much current as it wants/can at the V(out) level. Ostensibly, one could design a cct that would take anything from 3v - 18v in, and provide a rock-solid (well, w/in reason) 3.6-4.2 v out at just about any desired current level. Designer picks the right reference resistor and the cct locks on that that v. level.
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Design... My FIRST WLED light was the cheapy "throw-aways" that TechAss used to make. Used to. They had design problems -- but what do you expect from a light that consists of an LED whose "legs" straddle a watch battery and is coated in a rubber/plastic? Extrememly light, reasonably cheap ($6.50?) and very convient design... this was my first "bite-light" -- with the benefit that I could also control it the same way. Walk the dogs at night? But the thing between your teeth and you have both hands free -- and it points the way your're looking. Small, light, flat. Bite, it lights. But once it's used up, your only recourse was to cut the rubber off and keep the expensive little LED.
My next was the PAL (in gold). Handy, but bulkier for the pocket. Could still function as a "mouth-held" light, only you couldn't really control it, and your jaws get tired after a while. Don't EVEN think about trying that w/ the Brinkman -- unless you're a mashocist.
The Ergo works, mainly because of the shape of the lanyard region -- fits reasonably nicely 'tween my front teeth, but then I drool, and the weight is well forward -- it gets tiring, so it's only a short term solution.
The CMG is similar... v. short term... hurts the teeth.

So where does that lead me? Design... a two-AA power source, side-by-side, should work well for no-handed operation -- even if I can't control it. I can turn it on, crawl under the hood at night, or squat beside the tire, and get to work.

So -- Put 'em all together and where does that leave us? Right where we're at... only I don' t know what cct the Arc folks are using that let's them hit (IIRC) .3 - .4 v and still get output. Whee-doggies!
One (or more) "Heads" -- has the power conversion cctry in it, w/ variety being expressed by the LED device, and,
More than one body... pick your need, design, etc.

Can I afford 'em? Er... at $60 per, not yet, but maybe one day...

I'd be happy enough w/ having an in-expensive "universal" head-unit, and just design a battery holder for it... which is basically what I would have gotten w/ the Maxim proto board, and what I plan to do w/ the Arc Light if I ever get it... twist its widdle head off, and make a converter to fit the CMG body... presto-chango, best of all worlds... real brightness, small size, inexpensive but higher capacity battery = Happy camper.

If the Luxeons make it to my table some day, I'll pick up there and be happy. If not, then there's always other "fun" projects... like the wall-charged, NiCd-driven, photo-transistor controlled LED power-outage lights... which we needed two weeks ago when Richmond lost electricity... If power goes out, or it it's un-plugged, then you have enough light to navigate a room by... for a little while (let me see.. 600 mA capacity / 20 mA requirements means... about 30 hours? Heck, even if it's just 10 hours -- figure winter dark-time -- then it can charge and dis-charge every day and still be of use. Then I can start dreaming of retro-fitting the motion-sensing units... heh heh heh)

Whew. Hope you guys lived through that... I won't be offended at all if you didn't.

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Some good points Marcus.

Update on LS:

We have outsourced the prototype to three contractors. Two for the machining (both doing the same thing for redudancy) and one for the PCB. Monday one of the machine contractors will be meeting to go over our drawings and start work on cutting metal. My partner will attend that meeting and will involve me if they have any problems with my drawings or need to make changes.

I am currently doing some last minute testing on the design. The goal for the redesign is to shorten battery life and make the light brighter. We have come a long way from 5 overdriven Nichias...

I found that one of our prototypes was giving false readings because it was heat damaged in an earlier test. It's color temp changed and became noticably less efficient (drew more current for the same output). I replaced the LED and am currently re-running the tests for that configuration.

We have had a stable housing design for over a week now and we have tested about 8 circuit variations. We also have an alternate housing design in case we need to use some of the larger circuit variations.

I ordered and recieved all the LEDs we should need for the first run. We anticipated that the supply of LEDs would dry up pretty quick, so ordering stock was done right away and we are happy to say we have a good quantity.

We have found that the beam takes on slight splotches in the center at close to the rated power output. I will post beam pictures once we locked in a circuit. Rest assured that the beam is still superior to an array of 5mm LEDs.

One thing I can say for certain is that the E1 from Surefire will still be brighter. The closest I could come to 15 lumens from a single 123 was a Photonesq 2-5 seconds at 14 lumens but rapidly diving towards 10-11 lumens after a minute or so. My current fav in circuit variations starts at about 11 lumens and settles down to 9-10 lumens after 15 minutes and hangs there for several hours.
These lumen figures are calculated by wattage into the LED and not with a light meter so they may vary in actualality by +- 1-2 lumens.

More to come...
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Peter Gransee
 
Peter, you've previously mentioned that Level III anodizing costs "not that much" more, but you've got only several requests for it.

Those requests came from those few owning Surefires, becasue they know. People who do not know look and feel of L3HA have no idea how much more superior it is to ANY of the other choices. I didn't really care about the finish until I got my M2. So for me L3HA is a must now. (I wish they made L3HA cars. ...and computers... L3HA teapot would be cool too..)

There is plethora of fashlights models with regular HA. LS will be a class of its own - and to make it stand out from the crowd, it needs an approprate cover
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.
 
Our current anodizer has already said they can do type III. We are also looking into chem-coat the battery contacts. We would like to stick to one case color since the run is fairly small.

Peter
 
Is the reason the 18 lumen out put cannot be acheived do to overheating? Is the load on a single 123 to great for it to maintan? Would it run at a higher output if the base volts were higher or if higher amp capasity batt were used?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenB:
Is the reason the 18 lumen out put cannot be acheived do to overheating? Is the load on a single 123 to great for it to maintan? Would it run at a higher output if the base volts were higher or if higher amp capasity batt were used?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That circuit seems to have more problems than I orginally thought. I am double checking everything and I will get back to you.

Peter Gransee
 
Still testing... Had another bad LED throw off my results. These things are easy to heat damage. I have taken to using a very large heat sink while testing. The Arc-LS flashlight housing should be sufficient to keep the LED from toasting itself.

I have some time this weekend as I am taking a break from Arc-AAA production (waiting on our suppliers again).

Am trying yet another circuit variation tonight. This one is pretty radical and looks promising. One thing about all these circuits and the LED in general, I don't think the 3AA or 2 123 power packs will be a good option. None of the inverter circuits regulate very well above about 3.5 volts input and tend to allow the LED cook. I have even tried using chips that claim that they can handle an input of 6-7 volts. They do, they just don't regulate (probally because they are being driven so hard). One possibility is a parallel power pack. The housing would be tricky and hard to water seal- probally not an option we would see for awhile. We could make the circuit more complicated, but I have already used all the spare room to beef up the circuit for more power. Any larger and the housing will need to be expanded. I think the 3 packs and the 1 inch diameter head are the best bet. A later option would be a parallel pack or a switch pack.

Using a dropping resistor from a larger pack would loose about as much power as converter and would also not providing a regulation function. Running the LS directly from a 123 is dissapointing as well- as the 123 sags to a lower voltage and stays there forever (because at that voltage the LS is not drawing much current).

All these tests really go through the batteries. I have just about polished off a 40 pack of AA's and I have also used up 4 123's.

I am running 2AA's through the new circuit with a new LED right now and it just toggled at 4.25 hours- excellent (my goal was half of the earlier 10 hour run time). Now to run a 123 through it. More to come...

Updated: The 123 is not quite as bright as the 2 AA's (it's very close though, you might not even see it with your eyes). The 123 achieves 15 lumen power for only a few seconds and then settles down to about 11 lumens and from there is rock steady for some time. The 2AA power pack lingers a few more seconds at max power and takes a longer trip to the 11 lumen output. The new circuit is more efficient than the old circuit though as its run time figures are already better than the other circuit that also briefly achieved 15 lumen output.

Two factors are working against those who want the Arc-LS to match the E1 and even after I explain why; some will still feel the LS is not worth their money. First, a Xenon bulb is more efficient. And second, an LED requires an inverter to keep the voltage up, but the inverter looses about 10-20 % power at these voltages. Both of these inefficiencies work togther to make an "LED E1" not very likely any time soon. I should break this bad news now so those waiting for the LS to beat the E1 in output while staying the same size will probally have to wait until the technology improves.

Think of the LS as the following:
1. Easily the brightest single AA LED flashlight
2. Brightest single 123 LED flashlight
3. Brightest 2AA LED flashlight

It may also be brighter than some halogen 2AA or even 2D flashlights and with a longer run time. On top of all this, remember that an LED is not as likely to leave you in the dark. This is due to the rugged light source, longer run time and (with the Arcs) a "moon" mode that goes on for some time even with "dead" batteries.

More tweaking to come. I can see that the case is going to have to be redesigned to make more interior room without increasing any of the exterior dimensions. I need to get the new drawing done before this weekend so the machinist has no reason to delay us further.

Peter Gransee
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mad_scientist:
I wish they made L3HA cars. ...and computers... L3HA teapot would be cool too..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a bit off topic. I think you might be interested in this - outdoor cookware in HA.
http://www.gsioutdoors.com/hardanodized.htm

Alan
 
Alan,
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> My current fav in circuit variations starts at about 11 lumens and settles down to 9-10 lumens after 15 minutes and hangs there for several hours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Assuming 17 lm/W efficiency of an average Nichia white, runnig at 3.6V, 20mA, one Nicha white produces 1.224 lm. So an array of 9 would produce about 11 lm. Note, however, that those are not overdriven. Beam quality of an LS is an additional plus.

Back to anodizing: if anyone has anything against Green Millitary Level III HA, speak now or forever hold your peace.
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How would five of the secret bulbs intended for possible use in the XL work in these designs...maybe keep the LS for larger batt designs.
 
KenB, LED candidates for the XL were disappointing. Forget about them and the XL in general.
Here is the thread.

Peter, I never expected you to make the LS achieve its rated current, because the main thing everybody seems to be forgetting is that the LS is designed primarily to be powered from an outlet, not from a battery. Peter's innovative solutions, however, allow it to be used in a flashlight.

I'm pretty much sure that Peter's design will be close to the most balanced one. It is easy for us to be making demands like "Peter, do this" or "Peter, do that", but he is the only one working on it and only he knows the problems associated with various designs, so let HIM to pick the best one.
 
Good question Ken, and Mad Scientist (cool name) is right, the XL canidate LEDs turned out to be no different than regular Nichias.

Besides, its the beam man!
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Anyways, thanks for the input. Even though I don't always say it, I really do appreaciate everyone's input. I like to think of the Arc-LS as the CPF "peoples light" (VolksLicht?) since it was inspired and modeled after your input. In fact, it was because of KenB's and Alan's pestering
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that I tweaked for so long to make the circuit brighter.

So far the lastest circuit has run through all the tests quite well. I have noticed after the 123 test last night that my LED beam has developed a slight black spot on one side (kind of like the spot on jupiter). I am going to switch the LED out again (this is the third one) and run the 2AA test over.

Btw, the 123 ran bright and flat as a board for 3 hours and then provided 2 hours of good moon mode.

Thanks again for your input.

Peter Gransee
 
Peter,

What kind of power do they take before they get hot? What current level are you underdriving them to? (Maybe I missed this in an earlier post).

I read in an earlier post that you were putting 100mA into one. Did it fail on you at this current?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gadget:
Peter,

What kind of power do they take before they get hot? What current level are you underdriving them to? (Maybe I missed this in an earlier post).

I read in an earlier post that you were putting 100mA into one. Did it fail on you at this current?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to see your posts Gadget! Typically the LS begins to get warm at about 180-200mA and quite nuclear at about 360-400mA.

The current circuit starts at around 350mA and quickly settles to about 250mA and then slows it's decent but stays above 180mA for several hours. The voltage graph looks pretty flat since all the action is happening in the current domain. I would prefer that the current curve was more strict, but it works out ok in normal use. You figure for spot work it will be bright, for long duration work, it will be more efficient. In both cases, it will put out a bunch of light for its size.


Good questions KenB, I swapped the lens and also checked it for FOBs, it's the dice.

As far as long term durability of the LED, I think it will be ok in application. My first goal is to create a platform and then test the system as a whole for durability. We plan on testing this whole month. The reviewers will also have time to test the prototypes for long periods as well (buy lots of batteries). I would like to have the reviewers testing by the end of the month but it is too soon to say how it will all work out.

All in all, some challenges, but I think this will make a good light. I will have to be a little more laisez faire with the specs since there is so much variation, but the design is worth the effort and it will make for a good light. A light I would love to take on camping trips, carry in the car, carry in my pocket, etc. I do like flashlights...

Peter Gransee
 
Peter, if you have a camera around, could you please post some PICS?

Oh, and BTW: can I be a tester? I can guarantee you an excellent review!
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Ok, ok, I'm shutting up.
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Have you considered requesting some samples of the Shark...from the specs I don`t think it would work well in flashlights but it would not hurt to get some to play with and you never know...might find some way to make it work down the line.
 
Peter, Thanks for the "welcome back". I've been around, but not as much as before.
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I'm still on the job hunt. Still nothing at Arc?
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I'm trying to follow this whole LS thing, but we've got 2 maybe 3 topics going on.
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It sounds like a really cool idea, but maybe the Luxeon isn't ready for prime time yet.
 
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