Compelling reason to buy anything other than Eneloops?

[DHart]

After having a great many CR123, RCR123, and 18650 type flashlights I finally decided to enter the world of AA flashlights... and find that there are some pretty cool AA lights out there AND that they can put out some pretty wonderful light!

So, as I study here to try to decide what the best cells are to power these great AA lights, I find again and again so many positive comments about Eneloops (even if other NiMH offerings have higher mAh numbers/runtimes) that I have to wonder... is there really much of a compelling reason to purchase anything other than Eneloops when you can buy them for around $2.50 apiece? :thinking:

Also, for those who use AA's for EDC and can easily re-charge (on a daily basis - therefore low self-discharge isn't quite such an important feature in a cell), are Eneloops still "they way to go"? I eagerly await your learned replies!

 

[Burgess]

Hello DHart --


Allow me to simplify your life.


Stick with Sanyo Eneloops (or the identical product, DuraLoops)

for ALL of your rechargeable AA needs. :thumbsup:


Case Closed !



Now, put yer' decision-making brainpower towards deciding

what other flashlights you wanna' buy.



You can stop reading any further now.

_

 

[Russel]

The most compelling reason to buy something other than Eneloops: Eneloops won't start my car...Oh...You are talking about AA cells...oops!

 

[Niconical]

+1, and that's all I have to say on that

Hello DHart --


Allow me to simplify your life.


Stick with Sanyo Eneloops (or the identical product, DuraLoops)

for ALL of your rechargeable AA needs. :thumbsup:


Case Closed !



Now, put yer' decision-making brainpower towards deciding

what other flashlights you wanna' buy.



You can stop reading any further now.

_

 

[drmaxx]

Also, for those who use AA's for EDC and can easily re-charge (on a daily basis - therefore low self-discharge isn't quite such an important feature in a cell), are Eneloops still "they way to go"? I eagerly await your learned replies!

The other benefit of eneloops are that they are simply well made NiMH that will perform very well as EDC for a long time.

The only reason to get other NiMH is if you need more juice in the package. eneloops have somewhere around 2000 - 2100 mAh whereas high performers can have up to 2600 mAh. However, these need pampering and will age faster. Meaning, that they will loose their advantage after some use and you are left with the disadvantages (high self discharge).

 

[jt4703]

Also, for those who use AA's for EDC and can easily re-charge (on a daily basis - therefore low self-discharge isn't quite such an important feature in a cell), are Eneloops still "they way to go"? I eagerly await your learned replies!

I really like eneloops for my flashlights as I don't use them every day, but if you really need more runtime, I have had great luck with Powerex 2700mah cells. I've had 8 of them for over a year, abused them pretty hard and only had a pair charger until recently, yet my c-9000 shows them coming up around 2600mah capacity. As a bonus, the self discharge rate on them seems to be lower than other high capacity cells and I love how I can pick up my camera after a few weeks of non-use and still snap 300-500 pix on them.

 

[yellow]

I dont really see any reason to switch to an 2*AA light, when one has an 18650 one :thinking:
smaller diameter (less good to grip), a bit longer, considerably less power in cells, ...


that said: out of any 4-pack of "normal" Ni-Mhs I have bought so far, at least one was bad nearly from the beginning, usually followed by at least a 2nd one within weeks.
Somewhen last year, I have dumped most all of them (about 30 or so) and got "precharged" type cells.
They all work perfectly, no bummer at all. Keep their charge extremely.

I see no difference between Eneloops, Uniross Hybrio and another kind of cells (forgot the name). All of them are this "precharged"-kind, it is just that Eneloops are the most known, leading to calling all of them "Eneloop" - like "Rollerblade" for inline skates.

If one charges the cells just be4 using them, the higher rated cells give more power, but if there is a bit of time between charge and use, forget them
(a day can be enough)

 

[VidPro]

if its daily discharge, that would be a compelling reason to buy something in the high capacity. even if it took the weekends off even if it didnt last time, you would have more capacity on a daily basis.

but remember with LSD, you can have a set "ready to go" for the next day everytime. with high-cap and some cycles and age, in 2 weeks waiting for you , they might not be trustable then.

but you said daily, so you might certannly think about getting some high caps TOO , if you never needed the enloops for flashlights, there will be other things you can find for them later.

like i bought enough for the job need and flashlight need, then there was the electric nosehair trimmer, and the radio, then the calculator (with paper printer) , and the transmitter, and the powered speakers, and ,the meter, and the weather station, and , HEY! , where the heck did all my enloops go ? all over the house. and they are still working, so i probably wont find them so easily :scowl: when that person with the nose bush comes crawling back looking for power , they gonna pay i tell ya

 

[Turbo Guy]

considerably less power in cells, ...


that said: out of any 4-pack of Ni-Mhs I have bought so far, at least one was bad nearly from the beginning, usually followed by at least a 2nd one within weeks.
Somewhen last year, I have dumped most all of them (about 30 or so) and got "precharged" type cells.

Say what?

I have Li-ion 18650 rated at 2600 which do well to deliver 2100 mAh at 1 amp.. I have 2700 NiMH AAs that will deliver 2600 plus at 1 amp. no problem and will deliver 2300 mAh after setting for weeks not days.

Eneloops are great . They can be charged today ,used today or 6 months from now and still perform well. A few of the non LSD 2100-2300 NiMH AAs do very well at holding atheir charge for a couple of month but many do not and for the most part the greater the capacity the greater the self discharge rate is.

Eneloops take little to no special care whereas most NiMH cells require frequent (monthly) cycling to stay in great shape.

If you are really going to charge you EDC every day or even every two days then only cells better than Eneloops are Sanyo Nicads but do not expect them to stay charged for months at a time on their own.

 

[Marduke]

Say what?

I have Li-ion 18650 rated at 2600 which do well to deliver 2100 mAh at 1 amp.. I have 2700 NiMH AAs that will deliver 2600 plus at 1 amp. no problem and will deliver 2300 mAh after setting for weeks not days.

Forget to multiply by nominal voltage there??

 

[Black Rose]

is there really much of a compelling reason to purchase anything other than Eneloops when you can buy them for around $2.50 apiece? :thinking:

It really depends on where you live, combined with availability and packaging options.

Web prices are great if you are in the US, but once you add international shipping and exchange rates, it usually is not a good deal.

 

[Benson]

Well, high current capability can be a compelling reason to go with high-current cells like the cbp 1650 or elite 1700, but the sort of currents needed to make them significantly better than LSDs are found almost exclusively in Mags stuffed with an unholy quantity of AAs, not the "AA lights" and "EDC" usage mentioned by the OP.

Oh, and price? You can get Eneloops from DX for less than $3 each shipped anywhere, in quantities of 12 or more. So maybe not the previously mentioned $2.50, but not that expensive, either. (Exchange rates could still be an issue.)

 

[VidPro]

Oh, and price? You can get Eneloops from DX for less than $3 each shipped anywhere, in quantities of 12 or more. So maybe not the previously mentioned $2.50, but not that expensive, either. (Exchange rates could still be an issue.)

Yes and you saw what happened to that didnt you? DX "accidentally" got Endoloopies instead of the real thing.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226751

probably 90% of the people buying would never know if it wasnt for Ralph Nader

http://tinyurl.com/ddvx97
ohh sorry for the Spelling error there guys.

 

[Benson]

Yes and you saw what happened to that didnt you? DX "accidentally" got Endoloopies instead of the real thing.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226751

Yes -- they sold a bunch of real Eneloops, and a few fakes. When they found out about the fakes, they made it right (at least with people who complain, they're probably not going out of their way to notify those who didn't notice the difference) and stopped selling them until they can find a cheap source for genuine 2-packs.

Also, there are, AFAIK, no reports of fakes in the 4-packs, which is why I was basing my <$3 price on 12 or more (3 or more 4-packs), not 6 or more (3 or more 2-packs)...

DX generally is pretty good about letting people know when their product is a knockoff and when it's genuine, even if they show no aversion to selling the knockoffs as such anyway.

 

[VidPro]

yes they do tell it like it is dont they.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.73
2500ma batteries that are good for 800ma

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.72
700ma AAAs that might do 350ma on a good day

 

[zehnmm]

Well, high current capability can be a compelling reason to go with high-current cells like the cbp 1650 or elite 1700, but the sort of currents needed to make them significantly better than LSDs are found almost exclusively in Mags stuffed with an unholy quantity of AAs, not the "AA lights" and "EDC" usage mentioned by the OP.

Oh, and price? You can get Eneloops from DX for less than $3 each shipped anywhere, in quantities of 12 or more. So maybe not the previously mentioned $2.50, but not that expensive, either. (Exchange rates could still be an issue.)

I absolutely love Eneloops. Have 24 of them. I have used them at the lower end of the spectrum, such as a GPS up to some hotwire lights such as a ROP with a 6aa to 2D adapter with both the low and high Pelican bulbs. I have also used them in a quad-bored 3D with an FM 12aa-3d battery holder and an AWR hotdriver running the Osram 64610 50 watt lamp. That particular custom setup pulls about 4.4 amps assuming 13V. The Eneloops held up fine in my experience above 4 amps. FYI, I was getting some 23 min. runtime with that light that puts out some 1400 torch lumens.

But, here is the case for not using Eneloops as per Benson's post: I also have been running an Osram 64623 100W bulb, direct drive with a high temp KIU switch, with the FM 12aa-3d battery holder. The current draw for the 64623 bulb at 13.2V is estimated at about 8.7 amps. Est. 2500 torch lumens. At that level, while they are performing rather admirably, I find that other AA nimhs, like the Titanium 1800s handle the load better and give me a brighter light for the runtime. My beloved Eneloops caused the light to get a whole lot dimmer a whole lot faster.

If you have not already done so, visit the NiMh battery shootout sticky/thread at: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79302

Scroll down until you see the graph for the Eneloops where you can see how it handles various loads.

Conclusion: Great batteries. But as great as they are, there are some hotwire apps where other choices are more appropriate.

Regards.

 

[Turbo Guy]

Forget to multiply by nominal voltage there??

No but I did figure someone would bring it up.

I have a Tactical light which uses 18650 Liion. it is rated at 230 lm and draws 800 mA at 4 volts . I have 3 AA size lights rated at 200 lm and on a pitch black night there is 50 feet difference in the distane I can make out a power transforme on a power pole. Li ion 454 feet (measured) AAs 400 feet measured. Two of the AAs uses 900 mA and one uses 1.4 amp. All of teh AAs willrun brighter longer and are only 1/4 longer, they are smaller in dia. and weight less.

 

[Benson]

No but I did figure someone would bring it up.

I have a Tactical light which uses 18650 Liion. it is rated at 230 lm and draws 800 mA at 4 volts . I have 3 AA size lights rated at 200 lm and on a pitch black night there is 50 feet difference in the distane I can make out a power transforme on a power pole. Li ion 454 feet (measured) AAs 400 feet measured. Two of the AAs uses 900 mA and one uses 1.4 amp. All of teh AAs willrun brighter longer and are only 1/4 longer, they are smaller in dia. and weight less.

But now you've thrown different lights (that don't even have the same external performance!) into the equation. So you can't tell anything about the batteries. Fact is, with the numbers you listed, the 18650 has more energy than two of the Eneloops. Because you have more efficient AA lights, throwier AA lights, and/or are willing to make output/runtime tradeoffs with your AA lights, that doesn't mean the Eneloops are any better; Yellow's point is quite valid, in any even comparison, and I could trivially find a floody, but high-current 2AA light and an 18650 aspheric thrower that would reach similar distances and show the 18650 as way better, and it would be just as bogus. Energy is best compared by simply comparing energy.

 

[shuter]

DHart - Burgess nailed it in the first response. Now, pick your light. :thumbsup:

 

[Turbo Guy]

OP Thread title

Compelling reason to buy anything other than Eneloops?

Yellow posted

I dont really see any reason to switch to an 2*AA light, when one has an 18650 one :thinking:
smaller diameter (less good to grip), a bit longer, considerably less power in cells, ...

that said: out of any 4-pack of Ni-Mhs I have bought so far, at least one was bad nearly from the beginning, usually followed by at least a 2nd one within weeks.

Somewhen last year, I have dumped most all of them (about 30 or so) and got "precharged" type cells.
I see no difference between Eneloops, Uniross Hybrio and another kind of cells (forgot the name). All of them are this "precharged"-kind, it is just that Eneloops are the most known, leading to calling all of them "Eneloop" - like "Rollerblade" for inline skates.

So he is the one who brought uo 18650 cells to begin with. Since he clearly staed that he had terrible experience with all LSD NiHM I mentioned that I had very good service from them.

The lights comparisons I made are fair IMO. The throw and spill from the tactical on 18650 ,the throw and spill from the three AA are all very close. In fact the $35 AAs are so good all around it make me wonder why I spent over $100 on the tactical 18650 powered ligjht?

One can take comments out of context to prove or disprove any point of view.

Once again Thread was a question about EneloopsI believe. Perhaps I am mistaken and the Thread Title should have been Any compailing reason to consider anything other than LSD NiMH cells?

In that case I would recomend LiFePO4 manufactured by A123 Systems as they have the best of everything except power density. If you want the best power density then LiPoly is the best.

Quailty cells under average useage(?) what every that is.

LiFePO4 2,0000 cycles and extremly safe. Can be charged in less than 15 min, discharged in under 2 min. without damage.

NiMH 200 to 500 cycles ,safe ,one hour to charge ,dischage in 6 min. without damage.

LiPoly 50 to 400 cycles not very safe at all, 1 hr. to charge,can be discharged in 2 min, some without damage sometimes.

Li ion. Perhaps 200 to 500 cycles, fairly safe in singles, multi with safet circuites. Can be charged in approx.2 hours and discharged in similiar time.

Now I have really gone OT.

IMO it would be helpful to read Thread title, respond to it and not pick comments made by other responders to stear a thread off course,however if one really wants to discuss the virtues of all the differnt cell types then perhap start a Nicad versus,NiMh, VS Li ion VS ,LiFePO4,VS LiPoly,VS Limags .,VS LiCobalt,VS ,Pb (strting Vs Deep Cycle VS,Hybrid,flooded vs AGM,vs,gell,vs AGM . Then we can expant it to cover Wet cell (flooded Nicads, flooded and dry Silver Oxide,solar,fuel cells,Mercury, Salt, and any others that can be found.