Competitive models to the EagTac D25C or D25A ?

[DHart]

I am a big fan of these two lights, for their compact size, 4.2v Li-Ion compatibility (16340 and 14500), and options for emitter choices.

A relative has asked me for suggestions for a pocket light and these are the two models I have recommended, because I know them well.

BUT... what other-brand lights are there... which are excellent, direct competition for these two models, with regard to compact size, 4.2v, and emitter options?

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[aznsx]

I am a big fan of these two lights, for their compact size, 4.2v Li-Ion compatibility (16340 and 14500), and options for emitter choices.

A relative has asked me for suggestions for a pocket light and these are the two models I have recommended, because I know them well.

BUT... what other-brand lights are there... which are excellent, direct competition for these two models, with regard to compact size, 4.2v, and emitter options?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Me too. Must be something in the water around here, DHart;-) I'm not going to embarrass myself by counting how many D25As and D25Cs are in my abode;-)

I'll be interested in the responses to your question / suggestions, expecially if there are any which actually fall within their dimensions, have similar / competitive features, are not laden with silly / fluff / unneeded features, and also have good U.S. availability and support. I suspect it may be a short list, but I'm interested in seeing it ..............

 

[DHart]

Me too. Must be something in the water around here, DHart;-) I'm not going to embarrass myself by counting how many D25As and D25Cs are in my abode;-)

I'll be interested in the responses to your question / suggestions, expecially if there are any which actually fall within their dimensions, have similar / competitive features, are not laden with silly / fluff / unneeded features, and also have good U.S. availability and support. I suspect it may be a short list, but I'm interested in seeing it ..............

I don't know if EagTac (formerly Eagle Tac) is still a thriving flashlight manufacturer, or not. But their D25 models are such great lights.

Hopefully, someone here on the forum knows if there is an excellent light which competes closely to the D25C or D25A.

 

[aznsx]

thriving

Me too, but that's a very difficult word to define in this context. Hope springs eternal though, and we shall soon see.....

I'm happy that you have posed the question.

I'm by no means an ET expert, but I have noted that it seems those 2 models could be the only ones in their line which it appears have never been replaced / superceded during the near decade I've been familiar with them; they've only been enhanced. That 'tells me something' (beyond the reasons I personally buy them).

I'll also mention that one of those 'features' I'll be looking for is a proper (albeit in this case 'reverse') primary power switch (not 'control power / signal' switch). That's a requirement for me, but does not conform to the currently 'in vogue' design philosophy which has become so prevalent in this product category. There are other such things, which is why I expect the list to be short.

I can't speak to 'thriving'; only design, features, performance, value, and proven high quality ongoing support. I suspect that 'thriving' might mean sales numbers / market share, etc. to some, so I'll defer to the business types to speak to that. I'm not buying 'heirlooms' to leave to the kids I don't have;-)

EDIT: One typo

 

[DHart]

The design is so good that I'd be surprised if there are not excellent competitors to these two lights.

 

[aznsx]

...does not conform to the currently 'in vogue' design philosophy which has become so prevalent in this product category. There are other such things, which is why I expect the list to be short.

This could be a key factor. If so, that will probably be revealed in the replies to this thread.

I'm just thinking based on the lights in these formats that seem to get the most 'chatter' these days, and is why I don't have a suggestion to offer myself. Your criteria may also differ from mine a bit. I'm going to click 'watch' on this thread myself (not that I need another bloody flashlight;-)

 

[defloyd77]

You aren't really going to find too many companied that utilizes head tightening/loosening as part of their user interface because of Surefire's patent. That's what in my opinion separates Eagtac from the competition.

Skihunt's E2A is a pretty good AA/14500 that's 3 modes, has 3 emitter options and a pretty good price, but just operates with a reverse clicky to cycle between the modes.

 

[aznsx]

@DHart

Skihunt's E2A

This reminds me to say that, UI aside, if you're open to a 'TIR'-type optical element vs the conventional-type reflectors & lenses in the ET Ds, that probably opens up the field to a number of possible candidates within the ET-Ds' dimensions. That's not generally my choice in lights in this category based on my experience with the ones I have, but some may find them more satisfactory. I wasn't considering those in my earlier comments, so it's a point worth mentioning.

 

[DHart]

@DHart



This reminds me to say that, UI aside, if you're open to a 'TIR'-type optical element vs the conventional-type reflectors & lenses in the ET Ds, that probably opens up the field to a number of possible candidates within the ET-Ds' dimensions. That's not generally my choice in lights in this category based on my experience with the ones I have, but some may find them more satisfactory. I wasn't considering those in my earlier comments, so it's a point worth mentioning.

I have an Olight Mini-Baton (CR123) that is absolutely micro-size, with a TIR. The light is hardly even larger than the CR123 cell. 3 output levels, by holding down the thumb switch.

The beam is nice... broad and smooth. Excellent for near-field illumination. So, I'm not opposed to TIR lights, overall. But, I was thinking about lights a little larger, like the D25C.

 

[DHart]

You aren't really going to find too many companied that utilizes head tightening/loosening as part of their user interface because of Surefire's patent. That's what in my opinion separates Eagtac from the competition.

Skihunt's E2A is a pretty good AA/14500 that's 3 modes, has 3 emitter options and a pretty good price, but just operates with a reverse clicky to cycle between the modes.

Thanks... I'll have a look at the Skilhunt. Head loosening/tightening for output levels is not a feature that I am particularly interested in.

 

[jon_slider]

If you are OK w a Sideswitch, the Skilhunt M150 is AA/14500 w regulated output and NoPWM, available w 3000K or 4500K 519a. It has built in charging, with a proprietary cable, plus a tailmagnet. It is similarly slender as the D25A, and also uses a reflector.

The Skilhunt E2A is less expensive, although it uses PWM, and does not offer 519a LED, it works well enough for its low price.. Its similar to a Lumintop AA Tool, except the Skilhunt uses a narrow beam Pebbled Tir, which is also nice.

The E2A has a basic 3 mode UI, no tailmagnet, and no built in charging. The M150 has 2 sublumen outputs, plus 3 main modes, plus two Turbo modes, plus strobes, tailmagnet, and built in charging.

 

[aznsx]

I'd like to just add a note of clarification regarding the head switch functionality of some of the ET lights, and also add a note about a couple of significant features of the D25s, for the benefit of those who don't use the lights but may have an interest in them.

Head Rotation Switching Function(s):

The head rotation switch function(s) is implemented very differently in different series ET lights. In the case of the D25C/A lights being discussed here, the head switch is not capable of setting / selecting the output level to one of the normal available settings in the control sequence. That can only be done using the tail switch. The head switch is binary, and selects 1 of 2 primary operating modes of the light. With head tightened (CW), it sets the light in 'all MAX all the time' mode, with only one output level, and that is MAX (aka turbo?), which is higher than the normal HIGH. It's then a single-output level light, with the tail switch providing On/Off functions, with no control of output level. It is a persistent setting.

With the head loosened slightly, the light operates in 'normal' mode, with output level control using the tail switch in a fairly conventional manner for a 'reverse'-switch light.

The feature allowing one to set the light to MAX output, quickly and easily, with a single simple action, at any time (either prior to turn-on or during operation), is seen by some as an extremely valuable / useful feature, and I am one of them.

In the case of many other ET lights, such as the 'P' series, which I use several of, the head switch is multi-position, and directly selects the output level of the light to one of the several available settings / options. This can again be set prior to turn-on, or during operation, and is a persistent setting. The tail switch cannot be used to change the output level of the light, but provides only Momentary and Maintained-On / OFF functions.

It's interesting to note that while the 2 above designs are essentially opposite in their operation, they provide one common feature and bring out a refreshingly rare consistency of design philosophy that has value. At any time, with either of these designs, a quick /easy CW tighten of the head sets the lights to fixed MAX output level. When life creates situations where one suddenly needs "all the light I can get - right now" (which usually means 'a few seconds ago, with zero seconds to waste), that feature is 'gold' to some users, and I am one. I use it very often, generally just in casual use; but under stress, I don't need to think about which ET I'm using, as the shortcut to MAX output is always the same. The fact that it essentially mirrors what I do to shift to Max output with my MD2 w/ Hi-Low ring, or my Elzetta Bravo w/ Hi-Low tailcap is purely coincidental.

I also want to highlight another specific feature (actually 2) which address 2 of the most highly-prioritized flashlight design features by many users by making both specific, user-defined / configured options, thus satisfying most user preferences regarding those 2 feature options. Because the As and Cs use different control electronics, they differ in some features, so I'll refer to the D25C MK II as the example.

The user can choose / configure the light for a 'startup output level' of any of the available output level options they choose. Many users very strongly prefer lights to start on either low or high (or....). With this light, the user chooses which, of all the available levels, the light will start with at power-on. This can be 'set and forget' (it's a persistent setting), or changed at will depending on the situation the user may anticipate operating in.

The other often contested feature of lights I referred to is how low the 'Low' output level is, and for some, a very low output level is a requirement. The lowest 2 output levels of this light can be set by the user to either of 2 pairs of absolute levels, which meets the needs of those who require a very low 'Low' output. I also take advantage of this option myself.

Sometimes the 'small' details matter in a big way, but are often overlooked when 'shopping'. The 2 operational options above are in fact the only 2 user-configurable options in the light, but they are carefully chosen to be of value to a large % of users; unlike many lights these days which are fatally over-complex and laden with superfluous fluff. They are also easily configurable without requiring a 'D' size flow chart or logic diagram. One of the other few examples of high-value, easily user-configurable option features is Streamlight Ten-Tap. Most designs either fall short of this, or take it way too far, to an undesirable extreme.

In the case of lights you might wish to give to others, these lights have features which allow them to set the light to operate as they prefer, rather than settling for standard 'off the rack' operation. If desired / appropriate, one can even consult with the intended user and configure these settings in advance before passing the light along. This makes them particularly good gift lights. They arguably feature perhaps just the appropriate level of customization, without taking that to absurd extremes.

The D25C/A lights are indeed the minimum form factor benchmarks for lights of their general design and features, but aside from that, they also offer a few features which are not included in many designs, so don't just judge the book by the appealing cover. It's not all about dimensions and reflectors and such. There are other considerations to include when comparing lights in this category.

 

[Bill S.]

I am a big fan of these two lights, for their compact size, 4.2v Li-Ion compatibility (16340 and 14500), and options for emitter choices.

A relative has asked me for suggestions for a pocket light and these are the two models I have recommended, because I know them well.

BUT... what other-brand lights are there... which are excellent, direct competition for these two models, with regard to compact size, 4.2v, and emitter options?

Thanks for your suggestions.

I also have a few of each and have not found anything over the years that compares to the D25C and D25A for my needs. I'd love to know what's out there that I can consider.

 

[defloyd77]

I'm actually considering getting a D25A or D25C, do they use the same reflector? How do their outputs compare 14500 vs 16340 (with the same emitters of course)?

 

[aznsx]

I'm actually considering getting a D25A or D25C, do they use the same reflector? How do their outputs compare 14500 vs 16340 (with the same emitters of course)?

I believe I have output 'LED' and 'ANSI FL1' (/OTF) lumen output ratings for both the D25C and D25A, each with both the SST-20 R9 4000K and 519A 4500K emitters. I'll try to scare those up and post them later, with perhaps just a few basic notable differences between the A and C models that I'm aware of. I have one question in to IG that I wondered about myself, and I'll likely have that answer within a few hours.

 

[Monocrom]

Call me crazy, but you find something that works for your needs; screw the competition! Buy that, and then if you can afford to do so, buy one or even two extra of that. In case it gets discontinued or the company "improves" the design into something useless for your needs.

 

[aznsx]

I'm actually considering getting a D25A or D25C, do they use the same reflector? How do their outputs compare 14500 vs 16340 (with the same emitters of course)?

The nice looking reflectors are of the same design, with the 'C' of course being larger diameter, and the 'C' appears to me to be a bit deeper as well. I would describe them as being 'high-gloss finish w/ light orange-peel texture'. Subjectively, I consider the resulting output radiation / distribution pattern to be essentially 'ideal' for general purpose, all around use. The outer border of spill is defined enough that I don't feel I'm wasting lumens and lighting the world, the near-field illumination is very good for close-medium range work, with enough central zone definition / concentration to also add some extra candelas and provide very useful / usable reach. IOW, a good all-around compromise setup. The SST with its apparently smaller die does make for a slightly tighter, smaller central spot, as one would expect. Personally, I wouldn't change anything, nor would I prefer an alternative optical element in these specific lights (although I do like some of those designs in other lights).

The control electronics differ between the 'A' and 'C'. I will try to confirm this stuff (for my own interest as well), but just from my feeble memory: I believe that both lights feature 2 user-configurable, persistent settings / options. Both provide an option for setting / selecting the output level for the lowest 1 or 2 levels in the normal sequence. Both provide a second option for setting / controlling the startup output level. In the case of the 'C', one may select any of the levels in the normal sequence as the startup level. In the case of the 'A', the option is to either enable or disable the 'last-state power-on/startup' feature. When enabled, it always starts at the level it was in when turned off. When disabled, it always starts at the 'Min' output level. Of course with either light, if one wants it to start at 'Max', setting the head to 'tight' does that. I believe the 'C' also has superior design for thermal management / regulation, which is highlighted in the product page descriptions on the IG site.

Keep in mind there are shinier, heavier stablemates D3A&C, which may be very different from these D25 Al models. I can't comment on those, but am aware of them.

Keep in mind that these lights were designed for minimum form factor of their type - with AA & CR123A cells. This means that only the shortest of the protected lithium ion cells on the market are short enough to work in these lights without spring over-compression, which must be avoided. It's not the end of the world, as the cells do exist, but it's the P1 consideration when shopping for cells to use in these lights, so be prepared for that. No big thing, but good to know.

ET's corp. documentation is unfortunately in a somewhat disorganized state. If I find functional links to some of the good info I know exists somewhere (which I've seen), I'll post them here. There's a thing or two I'd like to review for myself if I can find them.

 

[defloyd77]

View attachment 69513

The nice looking reflectors are of the same design, with the 'C' of course being larger diameter, and the 'C' appears to me to be a bit deeper as well. I would describe them as being 'high-gloss finish w/ light orange-peel texture'. Subjectively, I consider the resulting output radiation / distribution pattern to be essentially 'ideal' for general purpose, all around use. The outer border of spill is defined enough that I don't feel I'm wasting lumens and lighting the world, the near-field illumination is very good for close-medium range work, with enough central zone definition / concentration to also add some extra candelas and provide very useful / usable reach. IOW, a good all-around compromise setup. The SST with its apparently smaller die does make for a slightly tighter, smaller central spot, as one would expect. Personally, I wouldn't change anything, nor would I prefer an alternative optical element in these specific lights (although I do like some of those designs in other lights).

The control electronics differ between the 'A' and 'C'. I will try to confirm this stuff (for my own interest as well), but just from my feeble memory: I believe that both lights feature 2 user-configurable, persistent settings / options. Both provide an option for setting / selecting the output level for the lowest 1 or 2 levels in the normal sequence. Both provide a second option for setting / controlling the startup output level. In the case of the 'C', one may select any of the levels in the normal sequence as the startup level. In the case of the 'A', the option is to either enable or disable the 'last-state power-on/startup' feature. When enabled, it always starts at the level it was in when turned off. When disabled, it always starts at the 'Min' output level. Of course with either light, if one wants it to start at 'Max', setting the head to 'tight' does that. I believe the 'C' also has superior design for thermal management / regulation, which is highlighted in the product page descriptions on the IG site.

Keep in mind there are shinier, heavier stablemates D3A&C, which may be very different from these D25 Al models. I can't comment on those, but am aware of them.

Keep in mind that these lights were designed for minimum form factor of their type - with AA & CR123A cells. This means that only the shortest of the protected lithium ion cells on the market are short enough to work in these lights without spring over-compression, which must be avoided. It's not the end of the world, as the cells do exist, but it's the P1 consideration when shopping for cells to use in these lights, so be prepared for that. No big thing, but good to know.

ET's corp. documentation is unfortunately in a somewhat disorganized state. If I find functional links to some of the good info I know exists somewhere (which I've seen), I'll post them here. There's a thing or two I'd like to review for myself if I can find them.

Thank you very much for that! I ended up ordering a D25C with a 3000K SFT40 directly from Eagtac on AliExpress with an Eagtac 16340. Funny, they told me all of the D25 series use the same OP reflector, nice to know the C has a tad bit more reflector to take advantage of that LED.

Doing research comparing the A and C is definitely a pain considering there's the original version and the titanium D25 models which themselves have changes. I also couldn't find much consistent info on the D25A MKII on 14500, which I had hopes on running if I got the A.

 

[jon_slider]

I ended up ordering a D25C with a 3000K SFT40

congratulations!

I have a 2014 D25A Ti and a recent D3A, they both work with all of these options:

The Lumintop 14500 USB-C on left, Is protected, but it is no longer than an Eneloop or Ultimate Lithium.. not shown is AA Alkaline, that is also the same length, 50mm.

I find the AA EagTac very nice and slender, I like it better than the C model, as I dont use CR123a, I prefer the Eneloop option in the AA model, as Eneloop has excellent temperature tolerances.. does not self discharge in my car during summer, the way LiIon does.

And if I want to use Lithium Primary, I have that option in AA, so I dont need a CR123a light.

 

[aznsx]

Funny, they told me all of the D25 series use the same OP reflector...

That sounds like a 'yellow flag', and might not bode well. Good luck!