Computerized Appliances

jayflash

Flashlight Enthusiast
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Years before Consumer Reports mentioned the unnecessary difficulty of operating some new, computerized appliances, I realized the benefits of the old, ordinary dials.

The new touch pad switching with its multiple layers is so much slower to operate than a dedicated button or dial. This is especially true of audio systems that use a single button to access several operations. This is a safety issue for cars in that one cannot easily operate a switch without looking at a display.

My new washing machine went wacko and needed to be "re-booted". Had I not paid close attention to several complete cycles, taking careful notes, I wouldn't have known the machine was collecting more errors of operation.

I other cases, PLCs removes operator choice and control over the equipment. In too many cases, poor programming and user interface ruins the benefits of computerized equipment.
 
Push buttons and PLCs are cheaper and more flexible than the mechanical timers used in many older appliances. They also look more streamlined and are much more reliable if designed properly. That's why they're used. IMO they're maligned not because they're "not knobs", but because the designers try to put in too many unnecessary features which most users will never need. Maybe all these appliances should have a switch for simple/enhanced mode of operation. Simple will operate pretty much intuitively while enhanced will allow extra functions. There should be no need to go through layers of menus just to do a load of laundry.

On the subject of digital/analog, one of my pet peeves is the move back to analog speedometers on cars. Besides looking dated and clunky, they just don't offer the precision of digital speedometers. A digital speedo can display speed to the tenths of a mph, and be accurate to that level if properly calibrated. Analog is what, +- 10% on a good day? And digital is much easier to read at a glance if the numbers are made large enough. No need to try to interpolate your speed if the needle is between two dial markings. That takes precious seconds away from your attention to the road ahead. Small numbers were really the source of complaints on those earlier digital speedos. And if you really must have an analog display also, then it's trivial to put in a bar graph above the digital display.
 
At one time I was pretty good with big industrial copiers. At some point, there was a change of design in the user interface and it seemed to become remarkably unintuitive. I suppose if I had time to work through all the menu levels to find all the possibilities, and experiment with a ream of paper, it might make more sense.

Mechanical controls were somewhat limited in how weird they could get, but a computer touchpad has infinite possibilities for screwball innovations. I think when pure programmers and other non-technical personnel got involved instead of technicians some of this stuff lost it's logical compass and shifted to random whimsy.
 
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I'm with you guys. The electronics can be designed well for use, but frequently they're not. This is most recently brought to my annoyance when I get into my car ...

So many things keep changing their state without my input. It's so incredibly frustrating because it require more oversight & effort than with the old analog switches.

For example:

- My wipers are off after turning the car off & back on even though the switch is still in the 'on' position. This is by design. I have to then turn the wiper switch arm to its off position then back to on if I want them to be on.

- I've got an adjustable suspension. If I've had it in "advanced" when I turn off the car it'll be in "sport" when I turn it back on. This is by design.

- It's impossible to reprogram the firmware to get my headlight switch to function as though it really controls the lights. Can't turn off all lights when in the "off" position, for example. In the daytime the DRL's are on no matter what, even though it announces to the world that I've left my car on & unattended for a moment in my driveway.

- My foglights don't stay on after reboots, er, I mean restarting the car.

All by design & on purpose by the manufacturer. All very frustrating.
:banghead:
 
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I had two microwaves die because the touchpad stopped working. The microwave itself was still going strong. I had technicians tell me to not push so hard, keep my nails off the buttons. I only use my finger joints to gently push the buttons. I was very gentle and it still died as quickly. I bloody hate touchpads. I searched and searched and found a microwave with real buttons. I LOVE IT!! No signs of slow death like the :rant: other ones.
 
Push buttons and PLCs are cheaper and more flexible than the mechanical timers used in many older appliances. They also look more streamlined and are much more reliable if designed properly. That's why they're used. IMO they're maligned not because they're "not knobs", but because the designers try to put in too many unnecessary features which most users will never need. Maybe all these appliances should have a switch for simple/enhanced mode of operation. Simple will operate pretty much intuitively while enhanced will allow extra functions. There should be no need to go through layers of menus just to do a load of laundry.

On the subject of digital/analog, one of my pet peeves is the move back to analog speedometers on cars. Besides looking dated and clunky, they just don't offer the precision of digital speedometers. A digital speedo can display speed to the tenths of a mph, and be accurate to that level if properly calibrated. Analog is what, +- 10% on a good day? And digital is much easier to read at a glance if the numbers are made large enough. No need to try to interpolate your speed if the needle is between two dial markings. That takes precious seconds away from your attention to the road ahead. Small numbers were really the source of complaints on those earlier digital speedos. And if you really must have an analog display also, then it's trivial to put in a bar graph above the digital display.
Hi jtr, I have to disagree with much of this!

I have no need for my simple mechanical appliances to be susceptible to power spikes and thus require surge protection or reboots. Many such appliances contain large electric motors and contact switches that generate their own large voltage spikes. I do agree about the million unnecessary features such electronic controls allow (How many modes do you need on a washing machine anyway?), especially considering the price is non-repairability. With the rapid obsolescence of technology, replacement boards will be difficult or impossible to obtain in the future and nobody will know how to repair/rework such ancient electronic tech by then either, making for a lower initial cost and feature laden but disposable product. Yet unlike with LEDs and computers, it doesn't make sense to upgrade appliances just because newer tech models come out.

Analog displays are superior because you do not have to read them! They are best for conveying info at a glance where the precise value does not matter (eg when you only need to know needle in red zone = bad). Digital readouts are far slower because you need to read the number on the gauge, then interpret what the number means and make a judgement call on whether that is OK or not. This is the case no matter how large the display is or how elegant it looks. The other problem is digital cannot show rapid changes in a way that can be comprehended easily--a digital speedometer will necessarily jump 4, 8, or 12mph at a time when accelerating or decelerating rapidly, and what information does such a blur of numbers really tell you? It's the same with an analog multimeter, which is better at conveying simple "high" vs "low" or changing values rapidly because the exact value does not need to be read to do so. How many times do you need to know how many tenths of a mph you are going anyway?

And virtually all cars use digital speedometers nowadays, what with the OBD2 vehicle speed sensors (VSS) being digital. Only the display is analog, the better for us analog humans to read.
 
With the rapid obsolescence of technology, replacement boards will be difficult or impossible to obtain in the future and nobody will know how to repair/rework such ancient electronic tech by then either, making for a lower initial cost and feature laden but disposable product. Yet unlike with LEDs and computers, it doesn't make sense to upgrade appliances just because newer tech models come out.
You're assuming that the controller board is the weakest link in a new appliance. I can tell you otherwise. Modern electronics generally become obsolete long before they stop working. I have digital alarm clocks over 30 years old still working! If properly designed and built, the controller board will outlast the mechanical portion of the appliance it's in. The failures some talk about are due to this stupid obsession of getting the price on appliances you might buy once or twice in a lifetime as low as possible. Refrigerators cost the same in actual dollars as they did 30 years ago. Obviously something had to be compromised for that. A person in the business mentioned to my sister that today's washing machines, air conditioners, and refrigerators probably won't last 10 years whereas the older ones are still going strong. We're still using a 35 year old washing machine and 30 year old refrigerator. The problem isn't voltage spikes destroying controller boards, it's planned obsolescense. Appliances break because they're designed to on the assumption nobody wants them for more than a decade.

Analog displays are superior because you do not have to read them! They are best for conveying info at a glance where the precise value does not matter (eg when you only need to know needle in red zone = bad). Digital readouts are far slower because you need to read the number on the gauge, then interpret what the number means and make a judgement call on whether that is OK or not. This is the case no matter how large the display is or how elegant it looks. The other problem is digital cannot show rapid changes in a way that can be comprehended easily--a digital speedometer will necessarily jump 4, 8, or 12mph at a time when accelerating or decelerating rapidly, and what information does such a blur of numbers really tell you? It's the same with an analog multimeter, which is better at conveying simple "high" vs "low" or changing values rapidly because the exact value does not need to be read to do so.
I could understand the value of analog for certain things where you're basically scanning for good/no good, and perhaps a few values in between. Speed isn't one of those things. If you want to know your speed to within 1 mph then digital will be faster to read than analog. I cycle and I find that to be true as I remember well the old days of cable-driven dial bike speedometers. If you need to know speed to within 5 mph it's probably a wash. And as for acceleration, a properly designed digital speedo won't jump by large increments. There are three ways to design a digital speedometer. All three obviously count pulses. The oldest and most primitive way simple counts the number of pulses in a given time period. The standard for most cars is 4000 pulses per mile. So if you want to display 60 mph that means the display must count 60 pulses between updates. 60 mph=4000 pulses per minute. So this means updating the display every 0.9 seconds. Obviously this method is unsatisfactory since you will in fact see the large jumps you mentioned as you accelerate. This method was the one used in the 1980s, and the reason why digital speedos were much maligned.

The second method which came into vogue next was PLL (phase-locked loop). Basically you run a variable-speed oscillator, divide it by some factor, and vary the frequency so the divided wave matches the frequency of the pulse train coming from the car. The display methodology is the same as before-count pulses in some interval and that's the speed. The advantage here is that instead of 4000 pulses per mile you can get any number you want. This means the speedometer can update much more often, and can even display speed to tenths of a mph. The drawback is it takes time for the PLL to lock on to the frequency of the pulse train from the speedometer sensor, so when speed changes rapidly the display might not accurately track speed. This method is great for things where speed changes slowly most of the time, and OK (i.e. no worse than the first method) when speed changes rapidly. It's still used on some bike computers (and OK for that as speed when cycling seldom changes by more than 3 or 4 mph in a second, if that) although method three, which I describe next, is becoming much more common.

The third method, which didn't come into vogue until we could make small microprocessors fast enough, is to simply count the time interval between pulses, and then compute the speed. This method is very flexible (you can program the number of pulses per mile, and get speed displays accurate to the tenth of a mph). More importantly the display can be updated with every pulse (in other words tens of times per second), and be accurate at every update (even in a rapidly accelerating car the speed changes very little in 1/60th of a second). Therefore the display tracks the speed exactly. Granted, if you're displaying to tenths of a mph those numbers will be a blur but you'll still be able to clearly follow the 1s digit and especially the 10s digit even if accelerating rapidly. And if you're interesting in gauging acceleration accurately, you can put a separate bar graph for that above or below the speedometer display, perhaps reading from -10 to 10 miles per hour per second (or even in g's if you want to be cool). Acceleration bar graphs have been used on railway vehicles for quite some time. I'm quite amazed they haven't found their way into cars.

How many times do you need to know how many tenths of a mph you are going anyway?
All the time in cycling as it lets me know if I'm accelerating/decelerating slightly or not. In fact, it's necessary if I want to consistently maintain a set speed (and no, you can't track accelerations that small on an analog speedo, especially with the needle bouncing around on bumps). And in driving if you want to sit right on the limit without exceeding it, what better way than a digital speedo displaying to tenths of an mph?

I'll also add that I love the odometer capabilities of modern bike computers even more than the speedometers. You can usually set the wheel circumference to millimeter resolution. Since a bike tire is typically 2100 or so mm this means if you measure accurately you can set circumference with an error of no more than 0.5 mm of the actual circumference, or about 1 part in 4200. So you can measure miles with an error of no more than about 15 inches per mile. Or put another way, the cumulative error when riding a century would be half a city block or less!

And virtually all cars use digital speedometers nowadays, what with the OBD2 vehicle speed sensors (VSS) being digital. Only the display is analog, the better for us analog humans to read.
I know that. The problem is the analog speedo itself is basically an analog voltmeter which converts the pulses into an analog display. As such it's subject to the same inaccuracies and variation with time as any analog instrument. And the needle needs to be damped to keep it from fluctuating wildly at every small bump. That means it takes time to settle into the new reading when the speed changes (in other words, it's not even that great at tracking acceleration, ostensibly one of its advantages). A properly calibrated digital speedo will be just as accurate 100 years later provided the tire size has remained the same. And some cars are finally using radar-based speedometers which avoid the inaccuracies of tire-driven based ones. Railway locomotives have been using those for at least the last decade. My main point here is that not only are analog displays inherently flawed if you want precise readings, but the fuzzy readings they give can be off by 5%, 10%, even more. I don't know about you, but if I'm driving (I don't BTW but I'm saying if I did) I'd want to know that if the speedometer says I'm doing 110 mph then I really want to be doing 110 mph, not 96 or 117 or even 110.5. Stick to the analog displays for things like temperature or oil pressure or even a tachometer where the exact value is unimportant, but give me a digital speedo any day. And you do know you can display a dial-type speedo with a supplementary exact digital speed on a display screen, don't you? This gives you an analog display, but with the inherent accuracy of a numeric display. Why isn't this used more instead of actual dials?

BTW, I've been an electronics engineer for over 20 years and I have yet to need or want an analog type voltmeter. I can interpret what a DMM tells me well enough to not need to see a needle bouncing back and forth. And if I need to go further than that, I hook up my scope to see the actual waveform (yes, that type of analog display definitely has value).

Getting back to the main topic, the problem isn't so much computerized appliances and digital displays as it is one of poor design. Analog designers have had how many decades to get it right? I'll bet in ten or twenty years nobody will be complaining about computerized appliances, and nobody will be signing the praises of dials any more. The controls will be both intuitive and highly flexible, taking into account things learned over several decades. Just look at what's happened with operating systems from the old DOS days of command line interface as an example. A modern GUI O/S offers ease of use for those who just want to use their computer, but also infinite customization options for the more technically oriented.
 
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Yes, jtr1962, that's what I was alluding to. Sometimes programming or design shortcuts negate the many benefits of PLC's. My complaint is the occasional item that is a step backwards instead of offering the numerous, possible, advantages of computerized equipment.

My new washer offers several functional improvements over the similar, non PLC, model. PLC's can help to achieve greater efficiency - significant amounts. I'll just have to remember to "re-boot" if it goes berzerk and appreciate the upgrades the washer does have.
 
As a self proclaimed gadget lover, it pains me to say that some (nay most) of the current products are complex for complexity's sake. It sells better but does not necessarily work better.

My old coffee maker had 4 controls, and auto brewed at the same time daily.

My new one has 8 controls, and it forgets to auto brew if it's manually turned on or off. I use it for nothing that the old one did not do, yet I have to figure out what the other controls do just in case.


Part of the problem, of course, comes from the interactions between modes that you have to know about. When you have a house full of gadgets, it becomes hard to remember that the drier will keep running periodically when set to "wrinkle saver" even if you have not pressed the "start" button after emptying the clothes from it. Or that the new vacuum has a light that comes on when the bag is clean, not when the bag is full.

I use a car with a digital spedo, and it works fine for me. When I'm in my wifes' car, it takes no time at all to get used to "35 is when this mark is under the needle". When driving a car you almost NEVER need your exact speed. You pick an approximate speed and stay there, or you match the traffic around you. 1 or 2 MPH fluctuation is absorbed by that "cushion" we are all supposed to have between cars.


But I'm just an old grouch.

Daniel
 
My coffee maker has a beaker and a metal screen on a plunger. Four controls, hah! :grin2:

Anyway, as a programmer by trade (not uCs, or anything like that)...features are often added because they seem neat, even when they aren't that good. Also, all inputs must be taken into account. The latter one goes against rushing a product out the door. Combine that with the habit of changing electronics all of the time (instead of planning out and maturing one platform), and well...it doesn't do so well (a washing machine that needs to be rebooted would be a prime example!).

Most of the time, added features should remain passive, like cheaper, reliable switching mechanisms (that can include proper knobs, BTW, they get cut for cost reasons, I imagine), computer timing control, programmed-in safety features, etc..

Digital/analog speedometer: the two are not exclusive. It's perfectly possible to have a digital speedo with a dial display...I imagine all cars use that, today. I prefer it over digital readout.
 
My new convection toaster oven requires too many button pushes to get to the desired setting.

After all that button pushing, and after cooking a meal, the oven can't even figure out when it's done. It sits there blinking "DONE" forever until I come over and press "STOP". It won't even respond to other buttons until "DONE" is cleared from the screen.

The food is DONE, I get it. No programmer ever bothered to cook with this product to observe its response AFTER the food was cooked.

EDIT--

About analog knobs: My washer is 40 years old. It has two settings, each take up half of the knob. When the standard cycle is done, one has to turn the knob 180' past the soak cycle to get back to the standard cycle. Does that make sense? I have had so many people wonder how to control the thing.

The dryer has a knob selector, too, but it doesn't point to its original setting, and it only works in one mode.

I still like toggle switches and push buttons. There's something tactile about them that I enjoy.
 
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The problem is the analog speedo itself is basically an analog voltmeter which converts the pulses into an analog display. As such it's subject to the same inaccuracies and variation with time as any analog instrument. And the needle needs to be damped to keep it from fluctuating wildly at every small bump. That means it takes time to settle into the new reading when the speed changes (in other words, it's not even that great at tracking acceleration, ostensibly one of its advantages).
....<big snip>...

BTW, I've been an electronics engineer for over 20 years and I have yet to need or want an analog type voltmeter. I can interpret what a DMM tells me well enough to not need to see a needle bouncing back and forth. And if I need to go further than that, I hook up my scope to see the actual waveform (yes, that type of analog display definitely has value).
hi gang,

Here in the world of large yellow earthmoving equipment, our dash uses analog displays. However, the needles of these displays are driven by stepper motors, so they can be very precise. The speed info is transmitted on the J1969 CAN bus. They don't have any of the vulnerabilities of the classic D'Arsonval meter movement.

Personally, I have mixed feelings. My car has a "tic mark" or "bug" next to the 55mph position, so it's easy to look at the needle and see if I'm above or below the mark. This is a common technique for old analog aircraft displays too. Not sure what they do with the modern digital displays.

My bike (i.e. bicycle) has a digital display, and I have no problem with that either. Of course, I really don't care how fast I'm going, since I don't worry about the speed limit, and pretty much go as fast as my body lets me. It is a handy tool when trying to calculate how long it will take me to get to my destination, though.

In general, an analog display works well for things that change quickly. Digital works well for things that change slowly. Analog also works well if you are just trying to follow a trend, while digital lets you get the precise value at a particular instant.

Back to computerized appliances.... yeah, there's definitely a market for the Luddites among us. I certainly tend to avoid excess technology. Maybe that's just the sign of an old engineer?? Reliability and ease of use is more important than weird features I won't use.

Reliability doesn't always favor old technology, though. For example, I've got a Pioneer receiver that I bought in 1979. It's nice, but the switch contacts are mostly worn out, causing lots of noise. My Yamaha receiver from 1990 has a digital interface and a remote control (very handy!), but mechanical switches in the audio path made me replace it with a Denon receiver a few years ago. One thing I insisted on was that there not be any mechanical switches in the signal path. So far, so good.... Unfortunately, the user interface is pretty awful, with tiny labels on the tiny switches. :p
A fella just can't win.

I have similar issues with my film cameras and digital cameras, so maybe it's just a case of never being completely happy?

regards,
Steve K.
 
Here in the world of large yellow earthmoving equipment, our dash uses analog displays. However, the needles of these displays are driven by stepper motors, so they can be very precise. The speed info is transmitted on the J1969 CAN bus. They don't have any of the vulnerabilities of the classic D'Arsonval meter movement.
I've seen these types of meters using stepper motors on speed recorders in locomotives and large earthmoving equipment but so far they haven't found their way into automobiles. They do solve the problems of imprecision present with regular analog meters, and as stepper motors can track acceleration very well. The only drawback is if noticeable stepping action is present (i.e. acceleration might resemble the second hand of a battery-operated wall clock). I'd probably design one so the steps were one or two tenths of a mph to avoid that. Anyway, this type of analog display, perhaps with a digital display on the bottom of the dial giving speed to the tenth of an mph, is the best of both worlds.

Regarding the need to know speed to tenths of an mph, this is definitely very important in the world of railroading, especially freight railroading. A long 10,000 ton freight train changes speed very slowly. It's important for the engineer to see what direction the speed is trending in undulating terrain so he can adjust the throttle as needed. For this, you need to see speed to at least tenths of an mph. Many locomotives also have acceleration displays (in mph per minute) to allow tracking speed changes even more precisely.

I'm also one for avoiding excess complexity. While things like bike computers are greatly superior to the old, cable-driven speedometers, I see far too much unnecessary complexity built into today's appliances. The biggest problem are the layers of menus you need to navigate just to do basic functions. It shouldn't be that way. Menus are great for customizing but basic on-off buttons or keypads should all you need to start basic functions.
 
I somehow feel that yesterday 's built-in obsolescence has been replaced with non-intuitive operational procedures.

The original operation and setting is accomplished with the assistance of the operator's manual. Years or months later following a power failure, battery replacement, or other situations requiring initiation or resetting, the manual cannot be found.

Without the manual, the non-intuitive gimmick has become nothing more than a puzzle to toy with.
 
When we put in a new addition to our house my lovely wife had fancy gadgets put into the new master bathroom. There's a steam shower, a bubble tub, and an electric towel heater with multi-day programmable controller.

I have absolutely no idea how to do anything with the fancy "easy to use" controllers without having the owner's manuals to remind me. On the steam shower & bubble bath contollers, each button performs multiple functions and is only labelled with an unrecognizable drawing or letter such as "P" or "M" (which by the way do not stand for 'program' or 'manual' in this case.)

I don't understand the motivation to overuse one button when it's cheap to put in dedicated buttons with intelligible labels. My objection isn't against the use of digital, but it's that designers don't seem to be following any guidelines for usability.

My microwave drives me nuts for the same reason of usability. I'm required to enter the cook time before I enter the power level. In fact, the designer went through the trouble of reporting on the display "you must first enter the time" if I forget & try entering the power level first. It's so frustrating to think that they bothered to put in the effort to bug-check the user entry but couldn't have just put the same effort into letting me just put in the power level before the cook time.
 
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