Confirmation on M3/M3T/M4/M6 lego build

[TriChrome]

Hello all, I’m looking forward to my next project which is a Surefire Turbohead incandescent thrower, and just need some confirmation that what I plan on building will work (i.e. that the research I’ve done so far is correct). I want to be able to get the same exact output as a Surefire M6 in the end, but in a smaller (thinner battery tube) form factor like the M3T or M4.

First Lego Version (same output as M3T):
I want to get a Surefire KT4 turbohead, then get something like the Seraph C>M adapter to run it on my existing bored Surefire C2 + 1 cell extender setup (I’m open to other C>M adapters, I haven’t found much info on others, suggestions to match the gray HA Surefire anodizing is appreciated). In that mode I can run 2x 18500’s on the M3T’s M15 or M16 lamps.

Second Lego Version (same output as the M4):
For the next level higher output I can run 3x RCR123’s (IMR or regular, depending on the amperage needed) on the M4’s M60 and M61 bulbs (and other Lumens Factory 12/13 volt offerings). At this point I’ll probably bite the bullet and get a M3 so I can use the D36 drop-ins I already have, with the bonus of getting a proper Surefire 3-cell body to use in the above setups without the C>M adapter.

Third Lego Version (same output as M6):
What I’m a little confused about is getting the same output as the M6 with its MN20 and MN21 bulbs. The Surefire M6 is only a 9v setup, right? But the two 3x CR123 carriers are in parallel so the amperage and mah is doubled? And the M6’s 9-volt setup is somehow brighter than the M4’s 12 volt setup? So to get the same exact output as a Surefire M6 (with less runtime of course) I would need to run a MN20 or MN21 bulb on 2x 18500’s (or for better runtime 2x 18650’s)?

Since the M6 is supposed to be the most amazing output of all Surefire lights, I need to make sure that the KT4 head is the EXACT same head the M6 uses; same reflector, bulb socket, everything. So when I run the correct combo (voltage) batteries on the M6 bulbs (but with the thinner M3T style tube I want to use) the output will be identical to the M6.

Thanks for all the help, and please correct away if I’m off on some of my information.

 

[nzgunnie]

First thing I would say is forget SF lamps for this project and look at Lumens Factory lamps that are matched to the output of Li-ion and IMR cells. The only exception would be the MN15, which runs quite happily on two Li-ion cells. YMMV powering the MN16 on Li-ions, they have a tendency to instaflash.

Depends on how important run time is to you.

You can run the IMR-M6 on 3xIMR16340s in your M3 body, but only for about 9 minutes. Very bright (as bright as an MN21?).

Another option if you have a bored body is the IMR-M3T and two IMR18650s (in a bored M4/Leef/FM body). You could use two IMR 18500s in a bored M3 as well of course.

I suggest you look in the sticky Incandescent threads of interest and do a bit more reading - you can't run an MN21 on 2x 18500s! :shakehead

These threads should be studied with care:
MDs Lithium-Ion > Incandescent guide, + compatability/comparison chart
LumensFactory IMR bulb configuration options guide/chart

And yes, the M6 head is the same as the KT4 head. It is more accurately the Millenium TurboHead, as the KT4 is the conversion kit that is available seperately, although on here KT4 is synonymous with Millenium TurboHead.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The KT4 "Millenium Turbohead" fits on the Surefire M3, M3T, M4 and M6 bodies. It also fits on aftermarket bodies such as Leef.

Various aftermarket bulbs powered by 2 or 3 li-ion options will produce similar of more output to the various high output M series light assemblies.

Here is some good reading for you:

SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/204157


there are a few more options now but these are the fundamentals.:twothumbs

 

[TriChrome]

Thanks for the links. I've researched them and it seems like my cell count is correct for each light, but as mentioned I'm better off with Lumens Factory bulbs (specifically the HO-M6R as I'm a throw junky) since the Surefire bulbs are pretty overdriven on rechargeables, and the Lumens Factory bulbs are meant for them.

One last question; has anybody used something like the Lumens Factory Seraph M adapter on a Surefire C body? I can't find confirmation that I can fit a KT4 head on my Surefire C3 with this adapter (or maybe I just can't search for terms like "C" and "M" properly through the search engine here).

 

[nzgunnie]

Although I haven't tried it myself, I contacted LF to ask about their seraph C-M adapter and they confirmed it will accept a KT4 and mate with a SF C series body. So according to the manufacturer it will do what you require.

For the C3, you could always get a KT2 head.

 

[TriChrome]

For the C3, you could always get a KT2 head.

I know, but I'm looking for the real thing down the line (i.e. a M3T body), so I figure this is the cheapest way to stage out my purchases.



On a related note, I know most people say to use a soft start with these high power incandescent bulbs, and most recommend the AW softstart. The problem is the AW is 3-level, and even though it has memory it just won't work for tactical applications.

Is there a comparable product that has 1-level only softstart (and I guess it would slowly release the power to the bulb over a second or so, instead of all at once to prolong the life of the bulb)?

 

[leukos]

If you are truly using these lights in tactical situations, then keep the light as KISS as possible, no softstarts, rechargeables, etc.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

On a related note, I know most people say to use a soft start with these high power incandescent bulbs, and most recommend the AW softstart. The problem is the AW is 3-level, and even though it has memory it just won't work for tactical applications.

I have found that a soft start is not a necessity for most bulbs. I do have one for my M6 although it is not currently installed.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Hello all, I’m looking forward to my next project which is a Surefire Turbohead incandescent thrower, and just need some confirmation that what I plan on building will work (i.e. that the research I’ve done so far is correct). I want to be able to get the same exact output as a Surefire M6 in the end, but in a smaller (thinner battery tube) form factor like the M3T or M4.

First Lego Version (same output as M3T):
I want to get a Surefire KT4 turbohead, then get something like the Seraph C>M adapter to run it on my existing bored Surefire C2 + 1 cell extender setup (I’m open to other C>M adapters, I haven’t found much info on others, suggestions to match the gray HA Surefire anodizing is appreciated). In that mode I can run 2x 18500’s on the M3T’s M15 or M16 lamps.

Second Lego Version (same output as the M4):
For the next level higher output I can run 3x RCR123’s (IMR or regular, depending on the amperage needed) on the M4’s M60 and M61 bulbs (and other Lumens Factory 12/13 volt offerings). At this point I’ll probably bite the bullet and get a M3 so I can use the D36 drop-ins I already have, with the bonus of getting a proper Surefire 3-cell body to use in the above setups without the C>M adapter.

Third Lego Version (same output as M6):
What I’m a little confused about is getting the same output as the M6 with its MN20 and MN21 bulbs. The Surefire M6 is only a 9v setup, right? But the two 3x CR123 carriers are in parallel so the amperage and mah is doubled? And the M6’s 9-volt setup is somehow brighter than the M4’s 12 volt setup? So to get the same exact output as a Surefire M6 (with less runtime of course) I would need to run a MN20 or MN21 bulb on 2x 18500’s (or for better runtime 2x 18650’s)?

Since the M6 is supposed to be the most amazing output of all Surefire lights, I need to make sure that the KT4 head is the EXACT same head the M6 uses; same reflector, bulb socket, everything. So when I run the correct combo (voltage) batteries on the M6 bulbs (but with the thinner M3T style tube I want to use) the output will be identical to the M6.

Thanks for all the help, and please correct away if I’m off on some of my information.

To beat the M3T and M4 output levels, just run an IMR-M3T on two 18500 or two 18560 IMRs, or on 2x18560 li-ions (preferably AW 2200 or 2600 mAh). It is brigther than MN16, MN20 and MN61. You also have a choice of running an WA1111 with the Fivemega bi-pin socket, output will be similar to MN21.

To beat M6's MN21 on primaries, you'll need a 3x18650 body tube. Then just run a Lumens Factory HO-M6R or IMR-M6. Both will run quite happily on regular 18560 li-ion cells. But they will be brigther on IMRs... You may also run these 13V lamps on 3x16340 IMR cells, it wil not be as bright though, not to mention runtime...

The KT4 is not a Turbohead model, it is a Turbohead Conversion KIT with lamp assemblies included. it contains a Millennium shock-isolated Turbohead, which is the same turbohead used on the SureFire M3T, M4 and M6.

 

[TriChrome]

I definitely want to best (or at least equal) the M6 MN21 on primaries for this build. Thanks for the suggestions.

I also confirmed with LightHound that the Seraph C>M adapter works with the KT4 and C/P series bodies, so I'll be looking for a KT4 shortly, and can power these setups with 3x IMR 16340's, or 2x 18500's for now (other body options will come when my bank account recovers



I'm also curious if there's any bodies that will fit 3x26500 or 3x26650 (3x26650 can fit in a 4x26500 body I've read) cells to power these setups? Or is that borderline dangerous (i.e. "poofing" bulbs) because of how many amps those batteries can discharge, and how these are pretty much direct drive setups? --just seeing what options are out there for better runtime versus 18650's.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

The standard SureFire Turbohead (such as in the KT1 or KT2 Kits) offers the same beam profile as the Millenium Turbohead (as they have the same reflector and same depth and dimensions), and they are lighter and less cumbersome... If you are not going to mount this setup on a high-powered rifle, then just get a KT2.

And by the way, quite a lot of the options I gave you, will be brighter than the MN21 on primaries, but few will beat an MN21 overdriven on IMRs caution: warning!! :mecry

You are not going to find a host for 26mm cells at this time. Leef has retired and all other custom-made bodies are sold out.

26500/26650 IMR cells, 'C' or 'D' Li-Ion batteries are not dangerous for Lumens Factory lamp assemblies, stock Wolf-Eyes bulbs and SureFire LOLAs. But they are quite dangerous to SureFire HOLAs-- so are 18500/18650 IMRs and even regular Li-Ion cells. Try at your own risk...

 

[TriChrome]

You are not going to find a host for 26mm cells at this time. Leef has retired and all other custom-made bodies are sold out.

FiveMega has a single 3x26500 host left (C compatible) in his for sale topic, but from the research I did, if you're not going over 5 amps in a build, it's pointless since 18650 cells have 2600mah now, and the IMR C cells have 2300mah (and the AW C sized cells seem to be discontinued and I can't find any other quality cell to use).

But you're right, all the other options (like the BigLeef system which would be perfect) are all out of stock or discontinued so my best option for now (until somebody makes a 3x26650 host) is a 3x18650 tube.

 

[zs&tas]

does / has anyone done the M3T IMR M6 imr16340's, sounds like an awsome pocket rocket. 1000 lumens ? wow ! im considering this setup for quick scans along the border's of where ever im walking the dog

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

does / has anyone done the M3T IMR M6 imr16340's, sounds like an awsome pocket rocket. 1000 lumens ? wow ! im considering this setup for quick scans along the border's of where ever im walking the dog

Yes, all the time. It's awesome. I prefer the HO-M6R, though.

 

[zs&tas]

why is this ? longer runtime, beter tint ? cooler running ? safer ! ?

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

why is this ? longer runtime, beter tint ? cooler running ? safer ! ?

Longer runtime and better throw. Tint is the same and they are both very safe on 16340 IMR cells.

 

[zs&tas]

beter throw sounds good thanks !
:twothumbs