Consumer Li-Ion "cradle" charger roundup...

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Yeah but I think I'm good with the Pila. Thanks all and sorry for hijacking the thread so much..
 
skoor said:
Or as WikiMark has so well stated, you can justify both- right 🙂
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Definitely both is good, but only after getting the Pila charger now and then later on deciding to get the hobby charger. I really think this is a situation where buying the Pila now and seeing how things go makes a lot of sense. Later on guiri may find that the Pila is all that he needs and he is happy to stick with that. Of course he may decide he needs a 2nd Pila charger to charge 4 cells at once or he may buy some LiFePO4 cells and need a charger that can charger to 3.6V. As you state, even buying another charger later to fill a need doesn't mean the Pila wont still be useful.
 
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Sounds like the Pila is the way to go for Guiri.

As for me, I'm totally happy with the Accucell and find it a breeze to operate because it is well designed and remembers the last used program and settings and powers up right into those settings the next time the charger is used. So if one is always charging Li-Po's as I am, it's very simple and easy. The only thing I may have to adjust is the charge current to match the capacity of the cell(s) I'm charging. And being able to charge my LiPo's at 1C is quite a time saver. My only regret is not getting one of these sooner.
 
My WP6 is clearly not functioning correctly. Just got two cheap 18650 batteries from DX- Trustfire 2400 protected. Checked the voltage and seemed about the same- around 3.85V. Willing to play with a cheaper battery, I put one in the Pila and other in WP6. After 2 -3 hours both showed fully charged cell with green leds. Normal, WP6 just slower than Pila. That would be ok for me, BTW.

Did a similar test on a not full discharged 18650 again. Put it in the WP6 and after 4hours, still trying to charge with red led. Pila as usual had green in 30 minutes or so. Three for three on this repeatable test even with totally different brand batteries. So three different brands AW, Trustfire and Ultrafire, all have had problems with WP6.

Finally got RMA from SBFFLASHLIGHTS. Save your time and money and go with the proven Pila for a consumer charger.

Someone besides Pila and hobby chargers will give us someday other charger options hopefully. icaharger is still on its way. Looking forward to all its readouts and flexibility.
 
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i got today the XXC-4.2V1A, also know as "the good one" (opposed to the 042V1000A models):

http://www.focalprice.com/detail_EB046B.html

INITIAL MEASURES:

Open circuit charge voltage: 4.20V~4.21V

battery initial voltage: 3.0V

3.50V 1.05A (red led)
3.60V 1.00A
3.65V 0.95A
3.70V 0.90A
3.75V 0.85A
3.80V 0.80A
3.85V 0.70A
3.90V 0.60A
3.95V 0.50A
4.00V 0.40A
4.05V 0.30A
4.10V 0.20A
4.15V 0.10A (led start to turn orange)
4.19v 0.01A (led turn full green)
4.20v 0.001A

my multimeter are switching between 4.19v-4.20v for hours.

don't think it will "cut off", but will reduce current until "zero" (at 4.21 i think). will let the battery a day on it to see where will go 😉

at least better than the Ultrafire WF-138 i got the last week. 4.35v? holy crap, it does not charge, it rape the cell 😉

EDIT: did a more complete test, and in fact, are a "CV" charger. no constant current stage. not having a constant current stage is bad? or only slow down charging process?

also, the open circuit voltage is the same on 110V or 220V

EDIT: THE CHARGER HAS BLOWN UP! :poof::poof:,... great...
 
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As far as safety is concerned, I see nothing wrong with the charger ramping down or up the charge rate during the charge. It's not ideal to have it ramp down, but it's not going to hurt anything in and of itself. It's the lack of proper termination that bothers me.
 
Finally got a Pila IBC today, they were on back order at both pila-usa and flashlightz. One thing I noticed is the DC power adapter has changed, its only 2A now instead of 2.5A as on the first page of this thread, and its a different brand power supply.

I thought I had read that its hard to find the Pila IBC in the UK, yet the DC power supply came with the 220V UK plug pre-attached to it. In a separate baggie was the 120V USA plug, you unsnap the 220V plug from the DC power supply and then snap in the 120V plug, I thought that to be a bit odd since I thought they were sold on here in the States, so why the UK plug pre-installed?

Lastly they no longer include the Pila cloth carry bag :sigh: speaking of that carry bag, if anyone has that Pila carry bag and doesn't need it, I'd be happy to purchase it from you, as I also bought Car adapter too, and I could really use it to put everything into.

PilaDC.jpg


electronman5
electronman5

electronman5
 
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The latest Pila chargers have a different power supply than earlier units. The new power supply has the plug oriented so the charger only takes up one space on a power strip. If you look under the plug adapter, you will notice that it is certified by ETL to meet UL and CSA standards. This certification is recognized by OSHA and others as equivalent to having separate testing done by UL and CSA.

My new Pila was supplied with the Box and Sleeve. A local suppler now stocks the Pila, and his units also have the Box and Sleeve. They no longer have the Bag included. My units goes green on AW2600 Protected Cells at 4.17xx volts DC, measured with a voltmeter accurate to .01%.
 
Hi all,

Just found this thread, have a few (hopefully straightforward) questions.

Please note I read the first couple pages of this thread, and the last, so please forgive me if I'm asking an already answered questions.

A few weeks ago I got a WF139 and two AW protected 18650's from Tactical LED's as a package deal. I use them for my Jet 3 Pro ST primarily and sometimes for my Quark with the 18650 body. I also got a couple AW protected 14500's for my AA size lights.

I've made sure to never leave the cells in the charger after the green light has gone on, and always do my best to not bang them around or knock them or the charger while I'm putting them in or taking them out, etc. If I've used the light they're in for any extended time I take them out and put them back in the charger as soon as I can, but won't do so if I can't check on them a few times each hour to make sure they're done.

I understand that so far from what I've read here that the Pila charger seems to be the clear cut best one to use for these cells, but I'm going to have to save up to justify another charger for my "special" batteries, particularly when it costs twice as much.

So, in short, I should be pretty safe with this usage policy, shouldn't I? So I shouldn't feel I need to rush to get a Pila charger for my Li-ion cells, but strictly speaking, I should probably ditch the WF139 for a Pila as soon as I can, correct?

Thanks in advance for the advice.
 
mdocod, many thanks for taking the time to put your expertise into these tests. I have the DSD and the WF-139 and now I know.. it's not all it's cracked up to be. Too many unprotected li-ions now finding their way into the hands of the public, which wasn't supposed to happen.

I'll take my chances with my Hyperion EOS5i charger.

Li is still dangerous after these years.
 
B0wz3r, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of what's up, concerning Li-Ion chargers. I'd like to point out something that for some reason, seems to go over many people's heads.

B0wz3r said:
I understand that so far from what I've read here that the Pila charger seems to be the clear cut best one to use for these cells, but I'm going to have to save up to justify another charger for my "special" batteries, particularly when it costs twice as much.
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My thoughts about most all of the "consumer type" Li-Ion chargers available out there are probably fairly well known, by many here. With the exception of the Pila (of which I do not own one, and never have), most of them just "ain't right".

You point out that the Pila costs "twice as much". This is true, but the question is, twice as much as what? A charger that improperly charges Li-Ion cells? This doesn't seem like much of a comparison.

I don't know whether you use nickel based cells, such as NiMH's or not, but the cost of a quality NiMH AA cell runs in the neighborhood of $2-$3. A decent charger to charge AA NiMH cells will cost you somewhere between $20 and $50. So, let's say a charger for NiMH cells runs about ten times the cost of a NiMH AA cell.

Now I see you use 18650 Li-Ion cells. A good Li-Ion 18650 runs around $10-$15. If we use the NiMH charger example above, this means that a charger for charging Li-Ion cells, should cost somewhere around $100-$150. But wait! The Pila only charges two cells at a time, whereas most NiMH chargers will charge 4 cells! OK, we'll divide the estimated cost figure in half then, which gives us $50-$75. Humm. Sounds like the Pila has about the same cost relationship to Li-Ion cells, as NiMH chargers do to NiMH cells!

Not too long ago, I mentioned to another member that he was spending more for a single Li-Ion cell, than he spent on the charger he was using to charge it with. I suggested that this should raise a warning flag. Particularly with Li-Ion cells, which can be dangerous if handled improperly (especially when charging), it never seizes to amaze me, how people strive very hard to find the cheapest charger they can get away with, to charge their Li-Ion cells.:thinking:

Dave
 
I agree with most of what Dave said in the previous post and would add that it never ceases to amaze me how resistant people are to the idea of using inexpensive hobby chargers which these days can be had for less money than the Pila, which imo, is very over rated. The only things that are good about it is it uses CC/CV and has built in (but not adjustable) cradles and is two channel (iirc). But it provides little or no info about what's going on and most importantly has only one non adjustable starting charge current, which imo is a rather major limitation compared to the budget but decent hobby chargers that are available these days that are much more flexible with user selectable charge currents and voltages and which also have LCD displays that provide very similar information to the user as the Maha C9000 does.

But most people seem to think these hobby chargers are much more difficult and complicated to use than they actually are and thus tend to shy away from them and instead gravitate toward the over rated (and over priced, imo) Pila, if not something even worse like the cheaper "consumer cradle" chargers.

But in reality the hobby chargers are, imo, much cheaper, simpler and easier to use than many people seem to think, although they do require the user acquire a little background knowledge which. of course, any user of cylindrical Li-ion cells should have anyway irrespective of what type of Li-ion charger they are intending to acquire and use.

The only negative involved with hobby chargers (which is not really much of a negative, imo) is that most of the hobby chargers are single channel and require the use of magnets and (in most cases) a separate DC power supply (i,e., an AC adapter). But even counting those modest extra requirements, these days there are decent budget hobby chargers that are less expensive and, for the reasons already mentioned, much better (imo) than the Pila.

So I would much rather have a single channel hobby charger like, for example, the Accucell 6 which costs about $39 shipped from a US based retailer, plus ~$10 for a suitable power supply (brick type) from Ebay, (if one doesn't have a suitable one already), plus less than $5 for magnets.)

All together the cost is about the same or slightly less than the Pila while being so much more flexible and providing much more info to the user about the cells and the charging process.
 
The problem is pae, that a lot of people don't want to bother with entering charge parameters and program their charger each time they use it. For a "drop 'em in and go" solution, the Pila seems to be the best thing going. Not everyone is like us, and wants to tweak everything.🙂

Also, if you aren't paying attention (as you always should be, when charging Li-Ion cells), you can get into big trouble with a hobby charger. That's why I personally, don't recommend them as a first choice, for most people.

Dave
 
Point taken, but I was surprised to discover that actually one doesn't have to program most hobby chargers each time one uses it assuming one is just using it to charge the same type of Li-ion cells each time because (at least with the unit I have) the charger always powers up with the same settings that were used the previous time. So there is actually no programing needed each time one wants to use it, assuming one is always using it to charge cells of the same chemistry. So usually the user won't have to change any settings at all, unless of course one wants to change the charge current, which is optional of course. If one wanted to keep it very simple, one could just set it at the same charge current as the Pila uses and it would always start up with the same settings as the Pila (which, of course, always charges at the same starting current and gives the user no option to change that). But with the hobby charger, at least one has the option to change the starting charge current, if one wants to. But one doesn't have to if one wants to keep it simple.

(And if one happens to want to adjust the starting charge current, it's actually pretty simple to accomplish. I would think anyone who could operate a flashlight could quickly master it.)
 
pae77 said:
(And if one happens to want to adjust the starting charge current, it's actually pretty simple to accomplish. I would think anyone who could operate a flashlight could quickly master it.)
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I agree 100% with you. I know people that I wouldn't recommend a hobby charger to and I would rather see them buy a Pila charger instead. But on this forum I would recommend the hobby charger because people that have the brains to get on a forum and ask questions are very likely smart enough to work out how to use a hobby charger.

The Accucell chargers are really not that tricky - if you always use the Li-Io setting you only need to push start button and set your charge current & # of cells, then hold the start button down until it starts up. If the voltage doesn't match how many cells you said you were charging then you'll see an error message. It doesn't take much to get to know what sort of charging current is appropriate for cells - look at the capacity and enter a number about half that (i.e. 2600mAh 18650 = 1300mA = 1.3A, 750mAh 14500 = 375mA = 0.3A, etc) or just charge all your 18650 cells at 1A and your 14500 & 16340 at 0.3A, that would work just fine for pretty much any brand or capacity of those sizes. Anyone that has charged a few batteries on their hobby charger will be finding it not that hard at all.
 
For those using wires and clamps and magnets from "cradle" charger contacts to charge larger cells that won't fit the cradle -- this may be useful.

It's from Turnigy, who make the well recommended Acucell 6 "hobby" charger"

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14285a

It's an envelope, not a box -- described for use with lithium-poly flat batteries -- but big enough to hold cylindrical Li-ion cells connected with magnets or clamps.

It shouldn't make you overconfident, it won't contain much fire very long, but ....

"Turnigy ... fireproof bag, designed to stop and contain the fire caused by incorrectly or poorly used lipos, especially during charging. We urge all customers to always practice extreme caution when charging and never leave a charging battery unattended and never charge in an area that could be affected by fire. The LP-Guard is made from a fibreglass woven fabric. Similar to fireproof suits worn by firefighters."

---------

This is blunt language worth repeating for new people coming in:
"never charge in an area that could be affected by fire"
 
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