Consumer Li-Ion "cradle" charger roundup...

[45/70]

Point taken, but I was surprised to discover that actually one doesn't have to program most hobby chargers each time one uses it assuming one is just using it to charge the same type of Li-ion cells each time because (at least with the unit I have) the charger always powers up with the same settings that were used the previous time.

This is a bad habit to develop when charging Li-Ion cells with a hobby charger. There is always the possibility that say, you've been charging 1-4 cells in parallel, as I usually do with my 4 bay cradle and you're "just sure" the last time you were using the charger that you had it set up for charging a single 16340 cell at 400mA, but in fact you had last used it to charge 4 18650 cells @ 5A (1250mA/cell). Unless you notice the Amperage setting (as you should, but......), you could conceivably place a 16340 cell in the cradle and charge it @ 5A!

There's a lot to be said in favor of chargers like the Pila in this regard. You don't really have to check anything, as far as the charger itself is concerned. Regardless of the capacity of the cells you are charging (provided they are 600+ mAh), you just plop them in and go.

And what's all this "One" business? For years now I've been going by the name of 45/70!

Dave

 

[Notsure Fire]

Yeah that's quite dangerous. You don't want to be careless with li-ions.

 

[KiwiMark]

When charging with a hobby charger I often use the same charging current as last time, making it quick and easy - but never so quick that I don't bother reading the display! 1 Cell (4.2V), 1.2A - yep that sounds right, start! I take a few seconds to read the display and consider if I should be charging faster or slower or if the rate is about right - I do this EVERY time, it is better to read & think than to wreck my Li-ion cells. Anyone that accidentally charges their cells because they didn't want to waste 5 seconds considering whether the charge rate was right is a foolish person that can't be trusted with Li-ion cells at all.

 

[wquiles]

When charging with a hobby charger I often use the same charging current as last time, making it quick and easy - but never so quick that I don't bother reading the display! 1 Cell (4.2V), 1.2A - yep that sounds right, start! I take a few seconds to read the display and consider if I should be charging faster or slower or if the rate is about right - I do this EVERY time, it is better to read & think than to wreck my Li-ion cells. Anyone that accidentally charges their cells because they didn't want to waste 5 seconds considering whether the charge rate was right is a foolish person that can't be trusted with Li-ion cells at all.

+1

Exactly how I use my Triton. I "always" look at the display to verify it is doing that I think it should be doing. Problem free for about 3 years now 😀

 

[KevinL]

The display is the fun part. I feel I'm 'flying blind' with cradle chargers.

 

[pae77]

No offense intended (or taken) but I feel a need to point out I certainly never said I don't look at the display each time I use my charger (or if I did, I certainly didn't mean to, but I don't think I did say or even imply that).

I just said (or meant) that one doesn't necessarily have to change any settings each time one uses the charger. Therefore one doesn't necessarily have to do any complicated "programing" of the charger each time one uses it. Of course I always check to see what the charger is set at and consider whether I want to use those particular settings or not before I push the start button.

 

[Neo9710]

I just ordered the Pila Charger since the Redilast 18650's wont fit into my other charger (which by reading a couple threads wasnt that great anyways). Hopefully it will be here soon

 

[peterharvey73]

Presently, I have a DSD charger, charging AW 16340 Protected 750 mAH batteries.
It seems to be working fine!
I am a low user, so I normally only charge one battery at a time.

Should I bother buying a Pila charger at all?
What would I gain? What would the advantages be?

 

[mdocod]

Hello peterharvey73,

The DSD was one of the very few budget chargers I tested that I would consider pretty safe overall when it's working the way that it is supposed to, and when the user understands the safety issues of it being a single channel charger (and acts accordingly), and assuming that the charging algorithm on modern DSDs is the same as it was back when I did the test on one. A Pila would charge the cells a little faster, and have less chance of breaking randomly, but if the only cell size being charged 16340, and generally 1 at a time, then I'd be content to stay with the DSD personally.

Eric

 

[peterharvey73]

Thanks for your speedy reply Eric.

Presently, the only thing that makes me nervous about my DSD is that, at first the light is continuously red. Fine by me.
Then after only 20 minutes, it has turned continuously green!
However, don't take the battery out just yet - because although it is continuously green, after 30 seconds or so, it will have just one red flash, then go back to being continuously green again.
Over several hours, the time in between the single red flashes lengthen to something like one red flash a minute, while being continuously on green.
After around 5 or 6 hours, then it is truly green, with no single red flashes at all.

Is this pattern/sequence of events normal?

 

[mdocod]

Thanks for your speedy reply Eric.

Presently, the only thing that makes me nervous about my DSD is that, at first the light is continuously red. Fine by me.
Then after only 20 minutes, it has turned continuously green!
However, don't take the battery out just yet - because although it is continuously green, after 30 seconds or so, it will have just one red flash, then go back to being continuously green again.
Over several hours, the time in between the single red flashes lengthen to something like one red flash a minute, while being continuously on green.
After around 5 or 6 hours, then it is truly green, with no single red flashes at all.

Is this pattern/sequence of events normal?

You should use a DMM to monitor the voltage. I have no way of knowing for sure what your specific charger is actually doing based on "green light/red light."

I would venture to guess that because you are charging a single cell of relatively small capacity, the charge voltage is hitting the termination point of the charger (DSDs usually terminate based on the charging voltage achieving something ~4.25V), but the battery isn't actually full yet. The voltage of the cell then settles down low enough that the charge re-initiates for a little while again... As the cell ages, this behavior would become more and more prevalent.

You can get a DMM good enough for this type of work for ~$10-20. They usually last many years and are a worthwhile investment.

Eric

 

[Monocrom]

The DSD was one of the very few budget chargers I tested that I would consider pretty safe overall when it's working the way that it is supposed to . . .

Eric

Those are the key words right there! If my DSD wasn't the worst piece of junk anything that I have purchased during my lifetime, it easily ranks in the Top 3.

 

[45/70]

The biggest problem I have with my DSD, is that it trickle charges. If you follow the rule of pulling cells when they're done, it might be OK, but if you should happen to forget...... That, and it really is pretty slow charging anything besides RCR123 cells. Also, it always undercharges cells, if you pull them when "done". And, the cord seems to have developed an intermittent connection it the wall wart, And...... OK, I'll stop.🙂

Dave

 

[mdocod]

Hi Dave,

Good to know.. My DSD did not trickle. It terminated completely in my experience. I think it's very possible that the DSDs guts could have changed many times over the years since I had mine.

-----------

peterharvey,

Considering Dave's experience with a DSD, I think a DMM should move up on your list of priority purchases a few notches, just so you can double check the behavior of your DSD.

Eric

 

[peterharvey73]

I feel like buying a Pila charger now.

However, it is complicated, because I must also buy 16340 spacers from AW - coz I don't think the two spacers that come with the Pila are for 16340's???

I'm hoping that, compared to my DSD, I'll get a:
1) faster charge,
2) fuller charge,
3) a safer charge with a lower risk of explosions,
4) a more accurate charging indicator, so that I'll know exactly when my batteries are fully charged.
5) I can also charge two batteries of different types and different depletion levels simultaneously.

The LED charging indicator behaviour on the DSD is a little disconcerting.

 

[mdocod]

I feel like buying a Pila charger now.

However, it is complicated, because I must also buy 16340 spacers from AW - coz I don't think the two spacers that come with the Pila are for 16340's???

Either a pair of 16340 size spacers, or a pair of 15mm spacers will also work. The pila comes with 15mm spacers, so you can stack another 15mm spacer in front of the ones it comes with to charge 34mm long cells.

I'm hoping that, compared to my DSD, I'll get a:
1) faster charge,

Yes

2) fuller charge,

Possible but not likely.

3) a safer charge with a lower risk of explosions,

Arguably so

4) a more accurate charging indicator, so that I'll know exactly when my batteries are fully charged.

pretty much yes

5) I can also charge two batteries of different types and different depletion levels simultaneously.

Yes

 

[peterharvey73]

Thanks for your reply Mdocod.
Now that you say that I'm unlikely to get a fuller charge, I think I'll hold off.
I was really after a fuller charge, but 16340's are only 750 mAH, so I must accept that.
I don't need speed, nor a proper two chanel charger.
I also make it a rule to only charge when I'm at home to prevent fires.
There seems to be no big gain for me.

Furthermore, a recent thread http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316114-PILA-IBC-Charger-question - it seems that LED red/green behaviour problems on the Pila charger are very common?
Just out of interest, I know the Pila is made in China, but is it engineered in China too?

 

[mdocod]

Thanks for your reply Mdocod.
Now that you say that I'm unlikely to get a fuller charge, I think I'll hold off.

Pretty much every li-ion charger I have tested charges batteries "full" very well.. It's all the other problems that we are concerned about. The way in which the charge is carried out, and the presence of proper termination is what we are generally looking for.

I was really after a fuller charge, but 16340's are only 750 mAH, so I must accept that.

I've never seen a 16340 size li-ion cell deliver a true 750mAH under any sort of realistic load in this industry. You can generally count on 400-650mAH range depending on the cell and the load.

Furthermore, a recent thread http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316114-PILA-IBC-Charger-question - it seems that LED red/green behaviour problems on the Pila charger are very common?

Pila IBCs have a failure rate just like any other charger. Most people who buy a $5 charger that doesn't work don't bother telling anyone about it. When they buy the $50 charger that everyone recommended, we get to hear all about it; which is good. The vast majority of IBC owners are quite satisfied.

Just out of interest, I know the Pila is made in China,

Cheap manufacturing. Unfortunate but true.

but is it engineered in China too?

I think what you mean to ask is if the product is built as a typical "cheap" product.

The product is well above average amongst it's peers.

Eric

 

[Roood]

Just want to know. Are the Cytac rechargeable lithium batteries any good? TIA.

-Rod

 

[peterharvey73]

And another question for you too Eric.

Just out of curiosity, you know how my DSD charger starts off at continuous red for 20 minutes, then goes continuously green with a single red flash every minute for the next say 6 hours, then finally continuously green - I also read your page 1 that the DSD does not trickle charge - thus can I remove my single 16340 after 20-30 minutes when the LED goes continuously green with the single red flash per minute?
Or must I wait till the LED goes continuously green after 6 hours or so?

Out of curiosity, what is happening at the continuous red phase? Is it the initial charge to 90%?
Then the continuous green with single red flashes/min is the final top up beyond 90%?