Consumer Li-Ion "cradle" charger roundup...

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hank said:
CC/CV Li-ion C & D Charger (4.2V cut-off, 2A, No trickle)
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Getting OT here, but I find that description amusing. The mere fact that it cuts off at 4.20 Volts, suggests that it isn't a CC/CV charger. 🙂

Dave
 
hank said:
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2735 ?

(apparently a closeout, maybe not worth reviewing)
CC/CV Li-ion C & D Charger (4.2V cut-off, 2A, No trickle) SKU: S004001
(0 customer reviews)
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I've bought a couple of them, here's a quick review just for you guys:
2A - yeah right! I don't think it is even 1A.
Seems to work Ok for charging a single cell though.
The battery holder is cheap junk, I switched to magnets instead.
Then I switched to one of these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7028
Once you add freight you are paying more, but then it can charge NiCd, NiMH, Li-ion, LiFePO4, LiMN & PB. It can charge at a true 2A or 0.1A or 6A or anywhere in between. It can charge my 6 NiCd cells from my Mag 6D all at once. It can charge 1 x 10440 cell from my LF2XT light. It is fifty times the charger that the KD one is at not that much more cost. It took very little to re-task an old PC PSU to power this charger (50W from 12V - no prob).

My KD chargers are now in a drawer unused.
 
45/70 said:
Getting OT here, but I find that description amusing. The mere fact that it cuts off at 4.20 Volts, suggests that it isn't a CC/CV charger. 🙂
Click to expand...

I think it is a CC/CV the amperage drops off once it gets to 4.2V and once the amps get low enough in cuts off (still at 4.2V)
 
KiwiMark said:
I've bought a couple of them, here's a quick review just for you guys:
2A - yeah right! I don't think it is even 1A.
Seems to work Ok for charging a single cell though.
The battery holder is cheap junk, I switched to magnets instead.
Then I switched to one of these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7028
Once you add freight you are paying more, but then it can charge NiCd, NiMH, Li-ion, LiFePO4, LiMN & PB. It can charge at a true 2A or 0.1A or 6A or anywhere in between. It can charge my 6 NiCd cells from my Mag 6D all at once. It can charge 1 x 10440 cell from my LF2XT light. It is fifty times the charger that the KD one is at not that much more cost. It took very little to re-task an old PC PSU to power this charger (50W from 12V - no prob).

My KD chargers are now in a drawer unused.
Click to expand...
Would a standard 12 volt 5 amp notebook computer power supply that has the same type of plug that fits in the Maha C9000 jack plug right into and work with one of those Accucell chargers?
 
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pae77 said:
Would a standard 12 volt 5 amp notebook computer power supply that has the same type of plug that fits in the Maha C9000 jack plug right into and work with one of those Accucell chargers?
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Yeah, pretty much anything capable of supplying over 10V and under 16V with enough amps to run the charger would work. I just use an ATX PSU because I had some of them lying around, I short the green & black on the M/B connector and it turns on, yellow and black from the molex connectors is +12V & Gnd. Use a multimeter to check the voltage and polarity from any DC power supply and you are good to go!

I love those hobby chargers because they are so versatile. I have NiCd, NiMH, Li-ion, LiFePO4 & IMR cells from 10440 size up to 32650 size and I charge from 0.1A (10440) up to 3A (32650) mostly. I can set a time and/or capacity cutoff and charge to 3.6, 4.1 or 4.2V for Li-ion chemistries. I can also discharge & measure capacity pulled out of the cell and cycle the cell a few times.

My favourite is actually this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7523
It can charge up to 7A/150W and discharge much faster than the smaller 50W model (5A/25W vs 1A/5W). It also comes with a thermal probe and USB connection - I have connected it to my laptop and graphed charge/discharge data (amps, capacity, voltage & temp). For what it can do it is a really well priced product. I believe that it could also be powered from a 12V 5A PSU, but that is only 60W so you would have to be careful in the selection of charge rate. However if you only charged a single cell then 7A x 4.2V = 29.4W so you could charge single cells right up to 7A, but for multi-cells you would have to keep the voltage lower. At under 2A you could charge 4 cells safely enough.

Remember though that these hobby chargers are not 'cradle' chargers and though they can charge 6 or 8 cells they don't have completely separate charging channels like the multi-bay cradle chargers have. You can charge a set of Li-ion cells that are the same type & state of charge and by using balancing leads you can monitor & balance the charge in all cells. But a cradle charger can usually charge different cells at the same time allowing you to charge your flat cell & 3/4 charged cell at the same time - you definitely should NOT do that with a hobby charger. On the other hand the cradle chargers I have can't charge a 32650 cell at 3A and I have 2 hobby chargers so I can charge 2 different batteries by using both chargers at once. It is a case of horses for courses - using the right sort of charger for your particular needs.

In my case I have a 50W and a 150W hobby charger, 2 x WF-139 chargers & 2 x 4-bay NiMH/NiCD chargers. I can charge a lot of batteries fairly quickly.
 
Thanks for the info.

But just talking about whether the plug on my power supply would physically fit the jack on the Accucells, would a DC power plug that fits into the Maha c9000 also be the right size (not talking about power levels here) to physically fit the input jack on those Accucell hobby chargers?
 
KiwiMark said:
I think it is a CC/CV the amperage drops off once it gets to 4.2V and once the amps get low enough in cuts off (still at 4.2V)
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OK, Mark. You have one and I don't. 🙂 It sounds like it may actually be a CC/CV charger.

There are so many Li-Ion chargers out there that claim to be CC/CV that actually aren't, that it just sounded suspicious. They perhaps should say something like "CV voltage = 4.20 Volts", or something. The voltage doesn't "cut off" at 4.20 Volts, if it did with a CC/CV charger, the cell wouldn't get a full charge. The voltage is merely limited there during the CV stage, not "cut off".

pae77 said:
But just talking about whether the plug on my power supply would physically fit the jack on the Accucells, would a DC power plug that fits into the Maha c9000 also be the right size (not talking about power levels here) to physically fit the input jack on those Accucell hobby chargers?
Click to expand...

pae, most 12V hobby chargers just have alligator clips for connecting to 12 Volts. Most of these chargers are used in the R/C hobby and the alligator clips make it easy to just hook the charger up to either the vehicle's battery driven to the R/C park, or a 12 Volt battery they bring along for such a purpose.

What I did with mine, was remove the alligator clips and install a 5.5mm connector on mine. This allows me to use a "brick" PS, or I can plug in a cable that has alligator clips, thus returning it back to the way it was. This would also allow you to carry out your idea.

Dave
 
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45/70 said:
There are so many Li-Ion chargers out there that claim to be CC/CV that actually aren't, that it just sounded suspicious. They perhaps should say something like "CV voltage = 4.20 Volts", or something. The voltage doesn't "cut off" at 4.20 Volts, if it did with a CC/CV charger, the cell wouldn't get a full charge. The voltage is merely limited there during the CV stage, not "cut off".
Click to expand...

This may be a language/semantics issue - I don't think that they are trying to say that it will charge constantly at 2A and when it hits 4.2V it shuts off. I suspect that they are saying the cutoff is 4.2V as opposed to 4.1V or 3.6V, they are also very clearly stating that it uses a CC/CV algorithm for charging. The charging definitely DOES cut off at 4.2V (as it should) but that doesn't mean it cuts off as soon as 4.2V is reached.

My hobby chargers can charge to a cutoff of 3.6 or 4.1 or 4.2V and by cutoff I mean CC charge until the voltage is reached, then CV charge until the amperage has dropped to 1/10th of initial amperage, then stop charging. I suspect the KD chargers use some sort of similar algorithm for charging. For single cell charging I wouldn't recommend the KD chargers to anyone though because they aren't enough cheaper than the hobby chargers and are so limited in what they can do. I seem to remember measuring around 0.7A for a flat battery and dropping once 4.2V was reached - 2A is maybe theoretically what the circuits could be capable of, but it isn't what the charger actually charges at.
 
Just a reminder: Many of the chargers tested in the first post of this thread do not use a proper CC/CV method with proper termination, but most of them CLAIM to.

Eric
 
KiwiMark said:
My favourite is actually this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7523
It can charge up to 7A/150W and discharge much faster than the smaller 50W model (5A/25W vs 1A/5W). It also comes with a thermal probe and USB connection - I have connected it to my laptop and graphed charge/discharge data (amps, capacity, voltage & temp). For what it can do it is a really well priced product.
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unfortunately.. there is no longer a usb connection or temperature probe on that model. :scowl: 🙁
 
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> hobbyking

The link for the manual for that charger is broken (I emailed Hobbyking to report, thinking maybe they'll comment, or put a manual back up there)

Wondering:

How useful is the temperature probe? (is it able to shut off the charger if it detects overheating?) Might be worth looking for a used model. Or is it something that could be added to the lower priced charger with a little soldering?

What's the USB for? power? Programming? (Win/Mac/Unix?)


---------
AAAAACk. Just looked over at the Nano and realized I hadn't been watching it for a while, and found a RCR2 at, gulp, 4.28v.

Not warm; after a dozen 'tests' in a row on the ZTS pulse-load tester, the multimeter shows it down to 4.22.

That's it, I've passed the point I can trust myself to pay complete undivided attention, definitely time for a smarter charger.
 
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mdocod said:
Just a reminder: Many of the chargers tested in the first post of this thread do not use a proper CC/CV method with proper termination, but most of them CLAIM to.
Click to expand...

"Many"? :crackup:

KiwiMark said:
......The charging definitely DOES cut off at 4.2V (as it should) but that doesn't mean it cuts off as soon as 4.2V is reached.

My hobby chargers can charge to a cutoff of 3.6 or 4.1 or 4.2V and by cutoff I mean CC charge until the voltage is reached, then CV charge until the amperage has dropped to 1/10th of initial amperage, then stop charging.
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I'm with ya man. The way you're wording it though is where I have a problem. My point being that a proper CC/CV charger does not cut off at 3.6 or 4.1, or 4.20 Volts. It cuts off at a specified point in the diminishing charge current level, during the CV stage, at this voltage. Voltage has nothing to do with the actual termination of the charge. Charge termination will of course, occur at what ever circuit voltage the CV algorithm dictates, but is unrelated to voltage.

This doesn't necessarily mean that the cell voltage will be the same as the CV voltage. Therein lies the problem with, as mdocod put it, "many of the chargers tested in the first post". They rely on voltage, for the most part (yes, there are many ways these chargers attempt to imitate a CV stage), as a means for determining charge termination, as opposed to charge current.

Dave
 
hank said:
How useful is the temperature probe? (is it able to shut off the charger if it detects overheating?) Might be worth looking for a used model. Or is it something that could be added to the lower priced charger with a little soldering?

What's the USB for? power? Programming? (Win/Mac/Unix?)
Click to expand...

On my Accucel the thermal probe can be used to shut off the charger, you can set the temperature you want and it will shut off when it reaches that temperature.

The USB can only be used for graphing the data as far as I can figure out. You can charge and discharge a cell graphing the voltage, temperature, capacity, amps. You can use the balancing taps and graph the voltage of each cell while charging or discharging. Mostly this is a cool novelty, it isn't really necessary to have discharge graphs of your cells.
 
On many models of the "iCharger" (which is another, somewhat more expensive, hobby charger), the USB port can also be used for upgrading the charger's firmware, in addition to graphing.
 
I was ordering some CR123A yesterday and couldn't stop myself, so i also ordered one of those new Xtar WP6. 😗
And guess what, it arrived today. Thats what i call fast shipment. 😀

I made some Photos for you guys, can't measure current or sth. now since all my 18650 are fully charged atm and i need to get some sleep, but maybe later. 🙂

It comes in a nice Paper box, packaging is ok.


Backside of the box


The Charger. Seems to be a quality build (for the price), cant say anything bad.


Back side of the Charger.


AC Power Supply and Car Adapter. Both do no feel cheap. I bought from a German Shop, so its the Euro-plug version. 🙂 Oh and yes, those are 6 little magnets. You need them to charge cells without a button, since the positive contact is not standing out.


Cell fitment. (the two ex-laptop cells using the magnets)
 
Did some tests... i can't provide more Information atm, since i only have a cheap multimeter at hand (3 digits).

- the green LED's flicker red every few seconds when there is no cell inserted in the specific bay, maybe some kind of voltage check
- voltage without a cell inserted is changing all the time, i've seen values from 3.9xV up to 4.5xV
- charging current is roughly 0.60A to 0.62A according to my DMM
- the led turned green (without flickering) at 4.17V cell voltage
- the cell was not hot or warm
- after the led turned green i measured a current of 0.00A. But as stated already, its a really cheap DMM.

Maybe i'll get my Hands on a Fluke DMM in a few weeks... so if theres no real test then, i'll try again. 🙂
 
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Hi Duglum,

great testing so far....

You actually don't need a fancy DMM to do many of the tests I do...

For example:

One of the simple ways I determine if a charger is float charging or not, is to take 2 cells that I know are both going to settle to 4.1V in a day or so, charge them both up on the charger, remove one, and then check each one the next day. (I use old LiMn cells for this).

If the one that was left on the charger is still sitting at ~4.20V, then it's being float charged.


Eric
 
AMAZING thread, i have a "dsd" charger with a dead power supply and the thaught of a nokia power supply never entered my mind lol

thanks jamie
 
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