Credit Card FRAUD at


Newly Enlightened
Oct 27, 2000
Santa Clara, CA USA
Well - I'm just now getting calmed down enough to WARN the other users about this latest problem.

A few days ago, I decided it would be good to have duplicates of my two favorite flashlights, the 9N and the M6 for my cabin, so if I arrive and forget to bring one, it's already there.

Despite my better judgement from ***ALL*** of the people who've gotten F***ed at botach, I saw they had a 15% off advertisement, and since these were expensive flashlights, 15% was (at the time) worth the risk.

I used their website, ordered, got my discount, and went to bed a happy camper. Next day - jfaeivae from botach calls, and says the M6 is not in stock [GEE FOLKS, HAVE WE HEARD THIS STORY SOMEWHERE BEFORE], but that it is not a problem - ne noted that I demanded in the (comments) field in their website to have a UPS tracking number emailed to me [AGAIN - ESPECIALLY AFTER **ALL** THE PROBLEMS WITH BOTACH] - so he was just calling to tell me that it would take two days to get a tracking number since they were going to "drop-ship" the M6 from surefire, but ship the 9N from botach. Then he decided it would save shipping to just drop ship the entire order from surefire, so he set it up that way, and let me know I wouldn't get a UPS tracking no. for 2 days.

Now at this point, I'm really surprised, impressed, and glad I gave them a second chance - after all - they are doing what I asked with respect to the tracking no, and they called back -two problems we've all heard before about botach - maybe things are getting bette.....


Must have been 45 seconds. My phones ringing again.

Alex calls (or alan - something like that) from botach - he lets me know there's been a mistake - since the items are technically not "in stock", they can't give me the 15% discount, and must charge full price. I tell Alan this is called "BAIT AND SWITCH" AND that the practice is illegal in California. So Alan Cancels the order. But conveniently neglects to cancel the nearly $400 charge on my credit card.

So I go call surefire and tell them this latest botach incident - they add it to the pile of complaints, and give me the customer service numbers of two other reps for their product - I ordered a 9N from brightguy (who isn't their rep) - and a 9N / M6 for the cabin from their rep nearby.

Now - here's the fun part -all these charges - all between 300 and 400 dollars - and all in a 24 hour period - this sets off the FRAUD ALARM at wells fargo bank, who calls today, who asks if I've spent $1000 in the last 36 hours - I said, no, more like 600, so we go through all the "companies" listed - brightguy, etc, and among them much to my surprise is!

I told them this was pure and simple fraud - after bait-and-switch tactics that failed, and a request to cancel the order, they left the credit card charge in place - I told them I wanted to file FRAUD charges with the district attorney in LA, and I wanted a police response to the locked doors at Unfortunately, all wells fargo's fraud department could do was cancel my card, issue me a new number, and block the charge from botach from hitting my account.

First they nailed Brock - now they nailed me with credit card fraud - there seems to be a patter forming here - are there any LAPD officers that read these forums who could go take their SL-35x's and "knock" on botach's locked, bar'ed up doors and have a chat with these folks?

With the way they treat their customers, it's a good thing they do have locked doors all day long with bars on the window.



Botach's deals have been posted on hot deals sites more than once. I'll ignore them. Thanks for the heads up!



Aug 6, 2000
Green Bay, WI USA
I feel for you I really do. I placed about 12 orders with them over the last year and have had 3 of them messed up. The first two I kept hoping were honest mistakes, but they really weren't. This last one is still in dispute, over 3 months now and still no credit from Botach. If you find an email for the better business bureau in their area let us know so we can all tell them of our problems. Botach has really gone off the deep end in my opinion. My credit card company (Chase) actually knows of them and has a number of complaints against them, so it isn't just us.

My nightmare with them in short, I was billed for a product that wasn't released and now initially I was told I would get it as soon as it arrived with them. A month later I called again and was told I was shipped the item in the original order, and that I have to return it for a refund. The problem is I never received the item, but the packing slip said I had, even though they didn't have it for over a month after I received my shipment.

Never again



Newly Enlightened
Feb 24, 2001
You've got me sitting up straight in my seat now. I also placed an order of over $200 with them last Monday. The 15% off deal did sound enticing. I ordered The E1, quite a few Photon IIs and some other stuff. Havent heard from them yet, so I'd better get onto them.

I was once working for an electrical repair company who kept botching jobs, loosing paperwork and miss-ordering parts. Basicially the boss wanted to make everything more efficient so he cut staff and threw out the old forms in a favor of a new laser printed form which got lost really easily. That and a really snobby secretary who couldn't write legibly. (The company was a 50 year old success story that our boss bought and ran into the ground in a matter of two years.)

I shudder to think of where my order is now. Under a pile of paperwork, in the "to do when I hear from him" list... Yikes!


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