... daily usage

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
Hi,

"daily useage" is, of course, somewhat stupid, but it kinda fits best: I´d like a light that helps me walking over a parking lot between buildings in the dark, can give me some light inside dark buildings and can be used to illuminate the insides of computer cases (which tend to be rather dark when you need to work on them) and, rarely, the underside of a car.

I´m considering getting a Led Lenser T7.2, but there might better choices. So I´ll fill in the questions you´ve been so kind to form:


1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).

Online, location does matter because I´m in Germany, and it would be an advantage to buy a light I could get spare parts for in case I need them.

2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :)

____Up to $50.
____Up to $100.

3) Format:

____I want a flashlight (hand held/self contained).

4) Size:

____MICRO - Keychain size.
____SMALL - Every day carry (4-7 inches).

I´m not sure. It would be an advantage to be able to have it with my keys, but those probably won´t give much light, and having it attached to the
keys all the time isn´t ideal. I could get a rather cheap for that in addition to a good one.

5) Emitter/Light source:

____LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)

6) Manufacturer:

____I want to buy a light from a large/traditional manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.

7) What power source do you want to use?

____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Alkaline batteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.

7a) If you have selected a rechargeable option

I would want to plug it into a 12V outlet of a car and into an USB port, i. e. both options. But I don´t really want one that I need to recharge.

8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is not a happy experience).

____I want an indoor "blackout" light (15-50 lumens)
____I want to confidently walk around an unlit/unpaved rural area (60-150 lumens).

____SPECIAL NOTE: Burst/Turbo mode Category - There are several lights that will run at a super bright maximum for a very limited period (usually 5-10 minutes) and then will "step-down" to a lower level for thermal control. Check here if this is acceptable.

It´s not unacceptable, yet not required, either. Unless it´s useful to blind someone, it´s a pretty useless option, but I guess it would be bright enough to blind someone without this anyway.

9) Flood vs Throw: Flood covers an area, Throw reaches out to a distance.

I´m not sure. Some flow is good for walking a parking lot and buildings; lighting something up in a great distance isn´t too useful unless I use binoculars with it ;)
For reading, I could use the keychain light.

9a) Distance: How far away will you typically need to see with this light (check all that apply)

____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)

10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum continuous output).

____3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).

It doesn´t need to run at full power all the time. I don´t want the batteries to be empty all the time, but in case I need it super bright, I don´t care too much how long the batteries last if they
can go for at least half an hour.

11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

____Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).

12) Switch Size, Type, and location (choose all that apply):

The switch should be easy to operate, preferably not located at the back of the light but in reach when holding the light.

13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
____I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)

14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today’s higher end flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).

15) Water resistance

____IPX7 (Waterproof to 1 meter/30min)
____IPX8 (Submersible to greater than 1 meter for 4 hours)

16) Storage conditions
____In house (temperature/climate controlled environment)
____Automobile glove-box (wide temperature swings, long standby periods, critical reliability)


What would you suggest? Would the Led Lenser be a good choice? I could get one for about 50.
 

Timothybil

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
3,648
Location
The great state of Misery (Missouri)
I'll start off by saying that the light I EDC, the Nitecore EA11, would fulfill your requirements nicely, but it is around $50 USD. I would suggest that you give the Lumintop Tool AAA or AA a try, or their IWP365 if a penlight form factor is attractive. Get the Nichia emitter if it is offered, the difference in color rendition is worth the lower output.
I am not a fan of in-light recharging for lights that can take replaceable cells. As far as I am concerned, that is just one more complexity that introduces a failure mode not otherwise present. When one is talking about AAA or AA cells, it is no big deal to have a second set of cells available, whether they be primaries or rechargeables.
As far as keychain lights go, the Nitecore Tube is pretty much still the front runner when compared to its cousins the Tip and the Tini. Its outstanding feature for me is the ability to ramp up to just the right amount of light rather than settle for the best of the available levels provided by the driver, which may not meet the needs of the moment. Having to choose between a level too dim to be useful and the next highest being too bright just doesn't make a lot of sense. And at $10 USD or less, it's worth while to get one just to see how well one likes it.
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
I'll start off by saying that the light I EDC, the Nitecore EA11, would fulfill your requirements nicely, but it is around $50 USD. I would suggest that you give the Lumintop Tool AAA or AA a try, or their IWP365 if a penlight form factor is attractive. Get the Nichia emitter if it is offered, the difference in color rendition is worth the lower output.
I am not a fan of in-light recharging for lights that can take replaceable cells. As far as I am concerned, that is just one more complexity that introduces a failure mode not otherwise present. When one is talking about AAA or AA cells, it is no big deal to have a second set of cells available, whether they be primaries or rechargeables.
As far as keychain lights go, the Nitecore Tube is pretty much still the front runner when compared to its cousins the Tip and the Tini. Its outstanding feature for me is the ability to ramp up to just the right amount of light rather than settle for the best of the available levels provided by the driver, which may not meet the needs of the moment. Having to choose between a level too dim to be useful and the next highest being too bright just doesn't make a lot of sense. And at $10 USD or less, it's worth while to get one just to see how well one likes it.

Thank you very much for your suggestions! So you´re saying that a keychain light can give me enough light? That would be cool because they are so small I really can have it around all the time.

The Lumintop Tool AA seems nice, but unfortunately it´s not available here. I´d find it an advantage to use AA instead of AAA batteries because the AAs probably last longer. A penlight is too much like a pen for my taste :)

How come the Nitecore EA11 is so expensive? Is their quality so outstanding that it justifies the price? The Tube seems to be unnecessaryly large for a keychain light, and the EA11 probably isn´t really for keychains.

Maybe Fenix E01? Or ThruNite Mini? But apparently you need to turn those to switch them on/off, which doesn´t seem ideal. Maybe NiteCore MT1A, but is that small enough to have it with the keys?

There so many choices ... :)
 

LetThereBeLight!

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
636
Yes, there are so many choices.

I'd go with the Nitecore TIP, because of its form factor. I love the Lumintop Tool AAA, as well as the Tube, but the Tool is round and the Tube might not quite be enough lumens.

Watch some YouTube reviews of each of the lights you are considering, especially the TIP. You can recharge it (or the Tube) from one of the computers you are working on!

- LetThereBeLight!
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
Yes, there are so many choices.

I'd go with the Nitecore TIP, because of its form factor. I love the Lumintop Tool AAA, as well as the Tube, but the Tool is round and the Tube might not quite be enough lumens.

Watch some YouTube reviews of each of the lights you are considering, especially the TIP. You can recharge it (or the Tube) from one of the computers you are working on!

- LetThereBeLight!

A Nitecore TIP is probably a very good choice for a keychain light, but what if the battery dies? Are they replaceable?

Rechargeable batteries can be useful in some cases, and my usage of flashlights currently isn´t one of them. I also like
to be able to get replacements from a gas station if I have to.

Anyway, I got a Thrunite Archer 2A V3. It arrived today, so I haven´t tried it in the dark yet. Of course, it´s way too large to
have it on my keychain because I traded small size for more light and longer runtimes. It´s still small enough to have it
around all the time, and the batteries will probably last at least a year.

I must say this is a really fine light. I´m surprised how small it is, and the build quality exceeds my expectations. The amount
of light seems just right for what I´m going to use it for, and it remembers the setting it was in. This is just good. Time will tell
how it holds up.

Now I think I´ll also get a TN4A from them, just for the fun of it. I might keep either of them in my car and perhaps get some
Lithium batteries, which should survive such storage conditions well enough. If usage changes such that it makes sense, I can still
switch to rechargables.
 

PaladinNO

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
74
I have long since moved away from AA/AAA lights (insert 18650 light), so my contribution may be of limited value here. But I'll give my best shot:

EDC: Thrunite Neutron 2c v3 (wow, ain't that name a handfull...).
Single-button operation, easy to use, infinitely variable with memory function. 1100 Lumen. Is by default an 18650 (included) battery light, but you can remove a part of the tube and use it with a single CR123 or 18350 (the latter is why I bought it).
Compatible with: 1x 18650, 2x CR123, 1x 18350 (short tube) or 1x CR123 (short tube). Available in both Neutral White and Cool White tint options. The Neutron is on the pricier end of things though.

You're talking about storage time, and so the CR123 falls neatly into that particular category, with an apparent shelf-life of 10 years.
Obviously, I haven't been able to test that particular claim just yet, but the ones I have had stored in a cupboard for 4 years doesn't seems to have degraded.
Put two in a Streamlight Polytac - which I keep in the car, thus exposed to various temperatures - 2 years ago (just to try to use up the damn things, as dumb me bought 20 of them >-<), and that light is still going strong.


Alternatively, if you do wish to hold on to AA/AAA lights:
EDC: Thrunite Archer v3 1A or 2A. As the names suggests, they use 1x AA and 2x AA batteries respectively, whichever you prefer. It also supports the use of 14500 batteries.
200 Lumen. Also available in NW and CW tint. Also, half the price of the Neutron.

I don't own an Archer myself though, so I cannot post any personal experiences. However, I am looking at the 1A. Oh well, maybe someday(™).


Keychain: The already mentioned Nitecore Tip. I own several of them now (dem colours, yo), and am very pleased with it.
3 modes, 360 Lumen, 490 mAh integrated batterypack.

And you are right. The batterypack is internally soldered in place, and is a worry of mine too. However, the price makes it to me worth taking the risk - i.e. just get another when the...I dunno, 5 I got, fails.
Micro-USB rechargable, which makes it possible to charge in the car/on the move, which can be handy. For me, the Tip was just the upgrade I wanted from the previous "Energizer High-Tech Keychain Light", with its measly 45 Lumen output.
So far, I've just set the Tip to middle mode, and using the included clip/cover to protect against unwanted activation.

The Tip's battery is supposed to be non-replacable, but I guess if you're handy with electronics and a soldering iron, reinstalling a new one is probably not hard. I am not though, so...it will likely be a disposable item, at least for me.
Still, as far as output and size is concerned, the Tip is highly recommended.
 
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leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
I have long since moved away from AA/AAA lights (insert 18650 light), so my contribution may be of limited value here. But I'll give my best shot:

EDC: Thrunite Neutron 2c v3 (wow, ain't that name a handfull...).
Single-button operation, easy to use, infinitely variable with memory function. 1100 Lumen. Is by default an 18650 (included) battery light, but you can remove a part of the tube and use it with a single CR123 or 18350 (the latter is why I bought it).
Compatible with: 1x 18650, 2x CR123, 1x 18350 (short tube) or 1x CR123 (short tube). Available in both Neutral White and Cool White tint options. The Neutron is on the pricier end of things though.

You're talking about storage time, and so the CR123 falls neatly into that particular category, with an apparent shelf-life of 10 years.
Obviously, I haven't been able to test that particular claim just yet, but the ones I have had stored in a cupboard for 4 years doesn't seems to have degraded.
Put two in a Streamlight Polytac - which I keep in the car, thus exposed to various temperatures - 2 years ago (just to try to use up the damn things, as dumb me bought 20 of them >-<), and that light is still going strong.


Alternatively, if you do wish to hold on to AA/AAA lights:
EDC: Thrunite Archer v3 1A or 2A. As the names suggests, they use 1x AA and 2x AA batteries respectively, whichever you prefer. It also supports the use of 14500 batteries.
200 Lumen. Also available in NW and CW tint. Also, half the price of the Neutron.

I don't own an Archer myself though, so I cannot post any personal experiences. However, I am looking at the 1A. Oh well, maybe someday(™).


Keychain: The already mentioned Nitecore Tip. I own several of them now (dem colours, yo), and am very pleased with it.
3 modes, 360 Lumen, 490 mAh integrated batterypack.

And you are right. The batterypack is internally soldered in place, and is a worry of mine too. However, the price makes it to me worth taking the risk - i.e. just get another when the...I dunno, 5 I got, fails.
Micro-USB rechargable, which makes it possible to charge in the car/on the move, which can be handy. For me, the Tip was just the upgrade I wanted from the previous "Energizer High-Tech Keychain Light", with its measly 45 Lumen output.
So far, I've just set the Tip to middle mode, and using the included clip/cover to protect against unwanted activation.

The Tip's battery is supposed to be non-replacable, but I guess if you're handy with electronics and a soldering iron, reinstalling a new one is probably not hard. I am not though, so...it will likely be a disposable item, at least for me.
Still, as far as output and size is concerned, the Tip is highly recommended.

Well, I have my doubts with rechargeable batteries. I´ve yet to see one that isn´t always empty, and it isn´t too long ago that I got rid of all the rechargable junk and am happy with primaries since.
I can get primaries at the place I work at, which is where I´ll probably mostly use my flashlight --- though I can run into them at other places cheaper and buy a 10-pack or two for EUR 2--3. Of course,
these cheap ones are crappy, but even if 2 or so out of a 10-pack don´t work, it´s still cheap, and a 10-pack currently lasts about a year.

Two 18650 cost about EUR 12, plus a charger, plus shipping. For about EUR 30, I can buy all the primaries I need for the next 10 years --- and who says that the 18650s and the charger I´d buy now would
still work in 10 years? Rechargeable batteries never pay out, they´re always empty, you need to charge them all the time: So what´s their advantage?

The 18650s and the like aren´t without danger, and I wouldn´t know where to find CR123s other than ordering them online. I could use a CR123 for a camera I wanted to try out, and I haven´t ordered
one since about two years now and didn´t get to try the camera. So much to availability.


The Archer 2A I got makes for another two AA batteries per year, perhaps 4. That´s less than EUR 1/year, no danger (other than that they could leak, which rarely happens and is rather harmless), no charging
required. Which rechargeable battery can beat that, considering reliability, availability, ease of use and price?

Then I spent a lot of time looking at different lights, including the ones that use LiIo rechargable ones, and though I understand that there are technical reasons for using those, I´m still finding them not
sufficiently advantageous to buy them because they come with all the disadvantages of rechargable batteries plus being potentially dangerous plus not being widely available plus I don´t like the idea
of what might happen when I keep them in my car in the summer.

After all that, seeing that the Archer has admirable build quality and works nicely, I ordered the TN4A (NW XP-L --- I don´t need a thrower as I would get with the HI version) just for the fun of having something
really bright. I also ordered a set of 4 Eneloop Pros with a charger along with it: Reviews indicate that it is most reasonable to use those instead of primaries with this light, so I decided to give them a try.

This seems the most reasonable choice. I have two lights and rechargable batteries with a charger for about EUR 100 in total, each for its own purpose, that use the same batteries which are easily available and
not dangerous. I can use Lithium batteries if I want long term storage, I can use primaries which I could stock up on, and I can use rechargables (if they work). Both lights will give me resonable/good/excellent
runtime on any kind of batteries.

What do other lights that use LiIo batteries better? Unless you want an even brighter light, I think they are a disadvantage.


As to the Archer, I´m glad I got the 2A version because it gives more light than the 1A. I haven´t tried it yet, but when you walk a dark parking lot in wet wheather, I think you do want the extra light the 2A gives
you --- and if not, you can always turn it down. It´s still a pen-size light that fits nicely into the pocket of my shirt. Unless you want really small, the 2A is probably the better choice.

For now, I´m not going for a keychain light. I don´t want to charge anything on USB ports anyway: The connectors wear out too easily and are fumbly, the cables you get are ridiculously short, nothing fits together
because there are like 5000 variations, USB is rated for max. 0.5A, and I don´t know what happens when you short it out. I don´t like USB at all; the only reason I´m using it is because it´s hot pluggable --- and that´s
only good for keyboard and mice.

Cars are 12V, not USB. The cheapest NiteCore TIP is about EUR 30 here. Compared to other options, that just sucks.
 

PaladinNO

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
74
Doing math can be dangerous - if I did the numbers right, I have apparently spent roughly 1400 EUR on lights, chargers and batteries in just 3 years (see signature). ^^

You asked for input, and that's what I wanted to give. I will admit I didn't read all replies here, but instead posted based on what I read in the top post.
As for the batteries, rechargeable vs alkaline, that's for each to decide. Me, I've long since switched to rechargeable, as I got lights that won't last long on full power with a petrol station ultimate powerpack (or similarly farfetched name).

I would want to plug it into a 12V outlet of a car and into an USB port, i. e. both options.

With this phrasing, I naturally believed there would be a car's 12V outlet-USB adapter involved. Also, while I don't know how many Amps this outlet is rated for (varies, I suppose), the USB standard is rated for 0,5 A over USB2, and 1 A on USB3.
And feeding a rechargeable AA battery with 0,5 A should be fine.

As for prices, if you can wait a month, have a look on the 'Bay. Nitecore Tips go for ~15 USD (~12,5 EUR) and less there. Of course, if you would want to try such a light.

This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).

And so I did assume Ebay would be included.

Battery-wise, no, I wouldn't leave an 18650 in the car for a year (or similar), but - which was why I was specific about this - take a look at the CR123 options. Those cells are pretty much marketed for that use/long shelf life. They are rather cheap to buy, and widely available.

However, if you insist on the AA/AAA standard, there are lights available. Lumintop Tool, Fenix E01, Coast PX25, Nitecore EA21, Olight S1A, Streamlight Microstream, Manker E03 - and the list goes on and on and on.

I don't know which rechargeable batteries you have been trying to give such a poor impression of that technology, but it really have progressed these last 5-10 years. I do know what you mean though - the older stuff was 100% rubbish, but modern li-lion cells are actually good now. Though it still depends on the quality, and the price you are willing to pay.
 
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tokaji

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Hungary
I use my Streamlight ProTac 2AAA at work everyday. I work in a big factory, and this little light comes very handy with its 80 lumen rating. I can check the inside of machines/computers without blinding myself. For detailed, close up work, it has a 10 lumen setting. For signaling to coworkers in the noisy factory building, it has strobe, a strong clip and glass window. Many of my coworkers uses AAA Maglites and 2AAA Led Lensers. We love 2AAA lights, because they are light and their size is similar to a pen, easy to carry in a pocket and the AAA battery is cheap, even when we have to buy new ones once every month.
I also used a 2AAA Maglite. It is very nice flashlight, but it is not regulated, and it rolls away easily. The Led Lensers I see are hold up well, but they don't seem to be great quality lights.
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
Doing math can be dangerous - if I did the numbers right, I have apparently spent roughly 1400 EUR on lights, chargers and batteries in just 3 years (see signature). ^^

You asked for input, and that's what I wanted to give. I will admit I didn't read all replies here, but instead posted based on what I read in the top post.
As for the batteries, rechargeable vs alkaline, that's for each to decide. Me, I've long since switched to rechargeable, as I got lights that won't last long on full power with a petrol station ultimate powerpack (or similarly farfetched name).



With this phrasing, I naturally believed there would be a car's 12V outlet-USB adapter involved. Also, while I don't know how many Amps this outlet is rated for (varies, I suppose), the USB standard is rated for 0,5 A over USB2, and 1 A on USB3.
And feeding a rechargeable AA battery with 0,5 A should be fine.

As for prices, if you can wait a month, have a look on the 'Bay. Nitecore Tips go for ~15 USD (~12,5 EUR) and less there. Of course, if you would want to try such a light.



And so I did assume Ebay would be included.

Battery-wise, no, I wouldn't leave an 18650 in the car for a year (or similar), but - which was why I was specific about this - take a look at the CR123 options. Those cells are pretty much marketed for that use/long shelf life. They are rather cheap to buy, and widely available.

However, if you insist on the AA/AAA standard, there are lights available. Lumintop Tool, Fenix E01, Coast PX25, Nitecore EA21, Olight S1A, Streamlight Microstream, Manker E03 - and the list goes on and on and on.

I don't know which rechargeable batteries you have been trying to give such a poor impression of that technology, but it really have progressed these last 5-10 years. I do know what you mean though - the older stuff was 100% rubbish, but modern li-lion cells are actually good now. Though it still depends on the quality, and the price you are willing to pay.

Oh don´t get me wrong, I do appreciate your input. (Keep going and I might end up spending as much money as you did ;) )

How come you need lights that don´t last long without special batteries? Wouldn´t it be much smarter to build and use lights that don´t need them?

There´s only one 12V outlet in my car. I have USB ports at home and at work. If I wanted to charge a battery in my car, the 12V outlet would need to be used.
I´ve done that, and it works when you drive long enough, but it´s easier when you don´t need to carry a charger. Three 10-packs of AAs would have
been about the same size as the charger. If you don´t drive long enough, you´re screwed unless you got a 12V outlet that doesn´t turn off when the car
is turned off. That is all far from ideal.

Ebay is included, just some things are easier or cheaper to get at other places.

CR123s are difficult to get. It takes me about 1/2 hour drive, and I´m in a different country. Go into another direction, and it takes somewhat longer, and I´m in a
different country. I think it takes at most 8 hours, no matter the direction. Now try to find CR123s. I can probably get them at photo stores here, and I wouldn´t be
surprised if they had too order them. Where do I find a photo store --- and one that doesn´t need to order them --- at a place I don´t know and/or in a different country?
It is already difficult to explain to an Italien mechanic that your alternator is broken. Good luck trying to explain to an attendant in a store that you need a CR123 battery.
When I go on vacation, which is an occassion for extended use of a flashlight, I end up in another country.

You also need to consider that all stores here are closed at night, on Sundays and on holidays, and most close early on Saturdays, so if I need one right now, the only option
is a gas station. Gas stations do not have CR123s. And I have been to a gas station in the middle of the night once because I urgently needed AAA batteries. They were
overpriced, but I got them, and I was very glad that I could get them at all. There´s no chance with CR123s.

Of course, I could stock up on CR123s. They aren´t exactly cheap, and I´d have to carry the stockpile around when going on vacation. With standard batteries, I´m ok with
a single spare set, or no spares at all, and replace that pretty much anywhere if I need to.

I´m not insisting on standard batteries. I merely think being able to use them instead of depending on special batteries is an advantage that outweighs the advantages
special batteries may have, which I´m finding questionable. What are the advantages for practical use of a flashlight when you go on vacation for three weeks and are
limited to the 12V outlet of your car for the entire time? It is already a big advantage to me when I do not need to carry a charger. (Olight seems to make lights that use
special batteries which are designed for this purpose. I found that out only today, yet considering their prices and that I usually don´t use a flashlight in my car, it makes
such lights again questionable /because/ they use batteries that can be dangerous particularly when kept in cars. So yet again I fail to see the advantage.)

As to rechargeable batteries, they´ve been around since the 80ies, I think, and they always sucked, no matter what brand. They work for a ridiculously short time and then
take many hours to recharge, which made them basically useless. If you try to use them in less demanding applications, they are a total failure because they loose their charge
like right away due to self discharge. After recharging them a few times, it becomes entirely unclear whether the battery is actually charged or not, and you keep finding out
that it doesn´t work at all when trying to use it. The chargers cost a shitload of money, not to mention the batteries.

I haven´t seen any improvements yet, either. The batteries in my digital camera are those supposedly great LiIo ones, but they are always empty even when you just take
them off the charger. Pick up the camera after a couple months after storing it with charged batteries, and you find them empty, so you´ll have to wait until the next day or
the day after before you could take a picture. Of course, it´s too late by then --- and after making this experience two or three times, you entirely stop charging them because
they´re empty no matter what. I have a cell phone for work, and the battery is always empty --- it works in between, but not for long. When someone comes with a laptop,
I always need the PSU as well because the battery will always be empty long before I´m done. I got a Mag Charger a couple years ago, and it served me well for a while. But
then conditions changed, both bulbs were broken and I couldn´t get a replacement, and last time I wanted to charge it, its rechargeable battery was leaking, so I took it out.
(I considered getting a replacement and new bulbs, but getting a new light instead costs less, and I could get something much better suited to my current needs, so I got new
instead. It´s still a pity.)

Batteries, no matter what kind, have always sucked, and they continue to suck. Standard primary batteries work ok in remote controls for TVs and a very few other applications
like that, and that´s it. I hope they´ll be useful enough in the flashlights I got. On top of that, rechargeable batteries always require one or another kind of special treatment, and
I wish I will never be forced to have a car that runs on batteries. I wouldn´t even make it one way to work because the batteries would be empty before I´d get there, not to mention
all the other issues involved.

So buying these Eneloops now is purely experimental. I don´t expect them to actually work well. If they do, I´ll have learned something new. They´ll probably never pay out
because I could have bought over 100 AAs for the money, which is how I never understand the argument that rechargeable ones are cheaper: By the time I´d be through 100 AAs,
the Eneloops will probably need to be replaced, which is equivalent to another 50 AAs, and once I´m through those, the charger probably needs to be replaced, too, and so on.
But they are supposed to perform better, that´s why I´ll try them.

That´s just my reasoning. If you run down the batteries in your flashlight several times a month or even every day, you might be better off with rechargable ones. But special,
inherently dangerous batteries --- or batteries that are so difficult to replace that they are basically irreplacable --- for a simple flashlight? Is that really necessary, or even advantegous?

It reminds me of an UPS I have. When the battery failed, HP wouldn´t even give me a price for a replacement battery unless I had created a support ticket for which they would have
charged me. They seriously want you to pay them to give you a price for a part that regularly and frequently needs to be replaced which you would have to buy from them! A replacement
was otherwise not available (only with much smaller connectors, which I didn´t want to use because it could go up in flames). Fortunately, I got the UPS cheap off ebay, and it had
worked for about three years, so I bought a new one instead, and I won´t buy anything else but APC anymore simply because you can get replacement batteries for those. Things like
that **** me off, and even though HP makes some very fine hardware, I won´t buy anything from them new because that wasn´t the only issue with HP (their support totally sucks).
Now I have a perfectly good UPS, but it´s useless because I can´t get a battery for it.

Ironically, the battery might have been so expensive that it won´t have been worthwhile, much as with my Mag Charger: it´s perfectly fine except for needing a new battery and a new bulb,
but they are too expensive to be worthwhile.

So you can have a perfectly good flashlight, but it´ll also be useless when you can´t get batteries for it, or when they are too expensive to be worthwhile. Of course, that will only ever happen
right when you need it.
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
I use my Streamlight ProTac 2AAA at work everyday. I work in a big factory, and this little light comes very handy with its 80 lumen rating. I can check the inside of machines/computers without blinding myself. For detailed, close up work, it has a 10 lumen setting. For signaling to coworkers in the noisy factory building, it has strobe, a strong clip and glass window. Many of my coworkers uses AAA Maglites and 2AAA Led Lensers. We love 2AAA lights, because they are light and their size is similar to a pen, easy to carry in a pocket and the AAA battery is cheap, even when we have to buy new ones once every month.
I also used a 2AAA Maglite. It is very nice flashlight, but it is not regulated, and it rolls away easily. The Led Lensers I see are hold up well, but they don't seem to be great quality lights.


Right, that´s just what I need, a light small enough that I don´t leave it behind and that isn´t so bright that it blinds me when I work on something but is still useful on the dark parking lot,
with good runtime on cheap batteries that are easy to replace anywhere and don´t require any special handling. (So far, I used the light built into the cell phone, but it sucks for all these
applications because it´s unwieldy for working, not bright enough for the parking lot, turns off after max. 10 minutes, and the arrangement of the buttons on the phone must have been
developed by a retard (like the rest of the phone) who has never held anything in his hands (and has never used a phone, let alone a computer, and keeps everything connected to a charger
all the time).)

What I´ve been reading about Led Lensers in the meantime seems to indicate that they used to be pretty good but aren´t as well built as they used to anymore, and technically not up to date.
I like the design of the P7/P7.2, but that´s not enough reason for me to buy one. And I like the design of the TN4A --- which will probably blast the whole parking lot, which is really large, and one
of the darkest places you will find here anywhere because the lights are usually turned off when I leave, and the street lights are too far away to do much, or anything at all further back.
I´ll try that out on Monday :)

I don´t know about Hungary, but in Germany, it´s pretty much impossible to find a dark place unless you really look hard for one. Street lights are everywhere. That´s much different in
the US, they have maybe half the street lights we have if they have any at all, preferably in dim, sick colours which makes you wonder what their purpose really is, and there´s lots of darkness
all around. (Maybe that´s the reason why there are almost no manufacturers of flashlights in Germany --- I might have bought one made here if there were any. What do we even still make but
cars the crucial parts of which are probably made somewhere else? A couple knifes, I guess.)

So this parking lot, by American standards, isn´t dark where I go, but when I come out of the building, my eyes aren´t adjusted to the darkness, so it´s very well dark enough that I want a good
light and am not comfortable without one. For all I know, someone might have left a cardboard box or something on the ground for me to trip over; that could happen any day. When it´s late enough, the
lights in most of the buildings are off, and it´s dark enough that I will run into something when I need to go there. That isn´t often, and I could turn the lights back on, but that costs so much
in electricity that it is usually just entirely unreasonable --- and it´s way more fun to go with a flashlight anyway.
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
Quick question: Is it normal for Eneloop Pros to arrive empty?

I got them in a set together with the Panasonic charger, and when I plugged it in, it showed all red and after half a minute or so it´s all yellow.

I thought they´re ready to use? It doesn´t seem to say that anywhere, and it doesn´t matter, but if they were kept on stock for so many years
as it takes them to self-discharge, I have to wonder how well they might still perform.
 

tokaji

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Hungary
Eneloops always come charged and ready to use, but as you wrote, it is possible that they lose some charge during long storage periods. Most Panasonic chargers are very good at determining when the cell is full, so they don't charge over the partially full cells. I don't know what does red and yellow light mean on your Panasonic charger, in Europe they have only green light.
 

leee

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
56
Eneloops always come charged and ready to use, but as you wrote, it is possible that they lose some charge during long storage periods. Most Panasonic chargers are very good at determining when the cell is full, so they don't charge over the partially full cells. I don't know what does red and yellow light mean on your Panasonic charger, in Europe they have only green light.

According to the instructions, the charger goes red, yellow, green, meaning less than 20% charged, between 20% and 80%, and more than 80%, respectively.

So I have to assume that they arrived less than 20% charged. I found it does say on the batteries "ready to use".

How much storage time does it take for new Eneloop Pros to become less than 20% charged? 5 years?
 

tokaji

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Hungary
According to the Panasonic website: ...."[FONT=&quot]Because they hold 70%* full charge after 5 years in storage, eneloop will be the last batteries you buy in a very long time.

[/FONT]
* Capacity retention based on testing method established by IEC 61951-2 (7.3.2) when stored at 20 °C (based on Panasonic’s estimation) and compared with minimum capacity. Varies according to conditions of use. "


 
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