Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 8/27/2010 (Newer Info Added)

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 6/22/08 (Info Added)

I have not heard much about, nor used fm1794 or WA-1183. A quick check on Litho's sales thread says the 1183 is about 440 BL at 4.8V

nfetterly's idea of the Carley 43W made for FiveMega is a fabulous bulb.
 

RODALCO

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 6/22/08 (Info Added)

I find it interesting to see that in most "flashed" bulbs, the filaments have actually melted of or near the supports to the filament.

Obviously that part is exposed to most thermal stress.

I would expect the filament to melt somewhere midway where most heat is generated.

Just my $0.02 worth on this interesting topic.
 
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Tirodani

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 6/22/08 (Info Added)

I notice that current specs on the 62138 rate it at 25 hours, not the 50 that I've seen mentioned in all the CPF discussion on this bulb. Can anyone vouch for having seen specs before that rated it at 50 hours? If so, I wonder if they've changed it or just re-rated it.

Seems strange, especially since folks report the 62138 liking more voltage than the 50-hour rated 64625.
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 6/22/08 (Info Added)

I notice that current specs on the 62138 rate it at 25 hours, not the 50 that I've seen mentioned in all the CPF discussion on this bulb. Can anyone vouch for having seen specs before that rated it at 50 hours? If so, I wonder if they've changed it or just re-rated it.

Seems strange, especially since folks report the 62138 liking more voltage than the 50-hour rated 64625.

You are likely relying on www.BulbConnection.com rather than Osram's actual site which has always listed the 62138 bulb as having 50 hrs life.
 

wayne21

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

I sure hope you are getting help from somebody or somewhere for the cost of the bulb's. untill I bought a good voltage meter as you suggested,I fried almost $100.00 in bulbs within a 2 month period. out of pocket for me is rough. you proably helped the bulb companies sell a poop load of bulb's. they should donate to you and write it off.
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09

I am posting my results for a clever new Osram category of bulbs, called Ministar. There is a thread about the 35W version here, but I ordered and tested the 50W version.

This bulb has a high quality silver coating on the bottom, acting like a reflector, and improving efficiency similar to the IRC bulb. Because this is a more directional bulb, Osram rates it in candela.

As I have said elsewhere, there are very strict definitions of lumens and candela, that are rarely understood. Candela underscores the measurement output in a directional cone of light (called a steradian) which applies more accurately with this type of built in reflector coating.

Luckily, we can do an approximate conversion by looking at Osram's site for the 50W Ministar bulb here, which I just finished testing. I will be posting it in my destructive original post shortly.

We see that this bulb puts out 1400 candela with radiation angle of 30° (also has life of 2,000hrs and color temp of 3,000 K). Going back to the WIKI page, there is a conversion table at the bottom if you know the beam angle, which in this case 30° uses 4.67.

So we divide 1400 candela by 4.67 to get approximately 300 lumens. However, this is a totally unique bulb design, because of directional output, but I did my same perdicular lux testing method to be consistent.The obvious question is how does it compare to the IRC 50W 64440 bulb listed here. That bulb lists 1250 lumens & 4,000hr life (same 3,000K temp), and at first blush it appears the IRC blows it away.

I will have to additionally test both bulbs in the same reflector setup to see how they compare visually and practically. The Ministar reflector design makes an unfair "apples to oranges" comparison. You can use my data to see the low amp efficiency and flash point voltage.



.
 
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zehnmm

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (Info Added)

LuxLuthor: Great Work! I am very interested in your further tests of the Osram Ministar. Like you stated, on paper it appears that the IRC bulb is better, but because of the design differences, that may not be the case.

I am also interested in your opinion as to the color the Ministar 50W puts out at various voltages.

Thanks and congratulations!
 

LIGHTSMAD

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

good work here.....a real helpful guide....thanks lux
 

ElectronGuru

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Hi Lux, if I send you a H/L pair of 7.2v Pelican 3853 bulbs, would you mind entering them into your bulb lineup?
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Yeah, I can do that. I only have heard people using the ROP 3854 Hi/Low which I tested. Why do you like the 3853 instead?
 

ANDREAS FERRARI

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Lux-I'm looking forward to your test results on the 3853H/L.I only learned of the existence of these bulbs last week.I always thought the brightest potted bulb you could buy normally was the 3854H.
 

lctorana

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Yeah, I can do that. I only have heard people using the ROP 3854 Hi/Low which I tested. Why do you like the 3853 instead?
I can chip in here:

ElectronGuru has found that two rested IMR 26500 cells blow the 3854-H, and looking at your test table, are not terribly far from the flashpoint even with an NTC.

Hence the interest in the 3853 bulbs. It was actually me who suggested these, as for some time now, I have been getting into what I call "rightwires", using very bright bulbs at their rated voltage, or only just over, for lots of lumens with full bulb life.

And your measured lux values are a very useful point of comparison between different bulbs anyway. For example, it will be fascinating to see the measure lux figures for the 3854H and the 3853H, both driven at, say, 7.7V.
 

Jay T

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

For my 2C ROP high with a spring tower bypass I let the IMR Cs sit on the shelf for 1/2-1 hour and till the cells were 4.17 and no poof.

I don't think that EG ever did a retest of the ROP with rested cells like he did with the 1185. I wish more people would give it a try. Perhaps his bulb was weak or perhaps my bulb is strong.
 

Nite

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

the ROP I have been hearing about is a powerful incan?

in the voltage range of a FM 1794..7.2 V appx...

Is there some info on these...1.5mm or 4mm..or just for Modified mags?

I did a search and got so many hits its scary.

I have bought alot of FM1794... havent found anything better yet..

started playing with 1111 and 1185 lately tho..and a 3 x cell axial

the 1794 is still my fave.

You only need two bulbs for these tests? Im tempted to buy you two.
 
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Benson

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

the ROP I have been hearing about is a powerful incan?

in the voltage range of a FM 1794..7.2 V appx...

Is there some info on these...1.5mm or 4mm..or just for Modified mags?
PR base -- the low bulb can be OK for short runs with a plastic reflector, so it's widely usable as a drop-in upgrade for flashlights, lanterns, etc., either at 6V or overdriven to 7.2V or more. The high bulb is a little more "dangerous", especially with a good overdrive, so it's mainly for Mags (due to lack of metal reflectors to retrofit most other lights).

Of course, with the 7.2V version, they should be overdrivable by a corresponding amount, so maybe they'll go well with 3x LiFePO4.
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

I can chip in here:

ElectronGuru has found that two rested IMR 26500 cells blow the 3854-H, and looking at your test table, are not terribly far from the flashpoint even with an NTC.

Hence the interest in the 3853 bulbs. It was actually me who suggested these, as for some time now, I have been getting into what I call "rightwires", using very bright bulbs at their rated voltage, or only just over, for lots of lumens with full bulb life.

And your measured lux values are a very useful point of comparison between different bulbs anyway. For example, it will be fascinating to see the measure lux figures for the 3854H and the 3853H, both driven at, say, 7.7V.

Ahhh, very good information. In fact, I just got off the phone with Pelican.com (800-473-5422) and said they don't make these bulbs, and don't have detailed specs but the 3854 is what comes with the BigD Lead Acid battery listed here as 600L at 6V, and is known to be less tolerant of higher voltage.

The 3853 comes with their BigD NiMH model here which specs as 600L @ a higher 7.2V, so will be able to overdrive more. Both models say package includes 11 & 24W bulbs. I'll see how they hold up, but in retrospect, I think we all should have been using this model to overdrive more than 3854.

I forget where we got these, but Lighthound only carries the 3854 at $9.99; whereas this site has them for $7.95 for either 53 or 54.
 

ElectronGuru

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Thanks Dude (and thanks everyone)!

After lctorana's timely introduction :)D), I did some research. The 3854 is considered a 6AA bulb and the 3853 is considered a 7AA bulb. The 3854 was considered ideal for 2 LiIon's until the 26500 came along. Here's an older thread with additional comparative info (particularly post 9-10 on watts):

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/103987


Its a bummer Lighthound doesn't carry the 7.2's, I'll have to request them on my next LH order. In the mean time, there are several dealers who do, including SO & BS:

http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm


ROP 2.0! :rock:
 
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ANDREAS FERRARI

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

ROP 2.0! :rock:

Sorry EG-I have already named a Mag ROP 3853H the ROP Exetreme!!!Copyright Pending.LOL
buttrock.gif
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 4/18/09 (New Info Added)

Its a bummer Lighthound doesn't carry the 7.2's, I'll have to request them on my next LH order. In the mean time, there are several dealers who do, including SO & BS:

http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm

Even if at LH, it comes down to the best price + Shipping. Delivered price from SO including USPS shipping for 6 packs was $53.58
 
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