Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 8/27/2010 (Newer Info Added)

Sgt. LED

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/15/09 (Newer Info Added)

The CL 809 runs at room temp?
I guess it's a warm wire!

I think it will work in my plastic reflector then. Thanks! :twothumbs
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

I said in earlier posts that I wanted to compare the custom FM Carley 1794 D26 21W bulb with some other Maglites that I have used to see if the boosted default lumen rating I did panned out on a practical basis. Based upon the testing and photos that I did tonight, I am going to settle on an estimate for default value of 800L. FM was told by Carley that it was default 628L @ 7V 3A. I previously guessed it was more like 1,000L, based solely on the measured Lux.

I did a shootout tonight that I will put in a separate thread comparing SF-M6 (MN-21 bulb), Mag66 x 2 regulated voltage levels, & direct drive Mag85, Mag1331, the CL-1794, and the CL-1499.

It was pretty interesting, and in some ways different than Lux measurements would have indicated. It is harder to control all the variables in a shootout. First thing is the very small 1" MOP diameter reflector for the D26 has a totally different effect on a beam than a 2" MOP. I then did repeated swapping of lights moving around at various items close and far, and eventually you can come out with a pretty reliable ranking comparison.
 

mdocod

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/15/09 (Newer Info Added)

I wonder if any of these bulb manufacturers have any idea how much we push and psychoanalyze their bulbs here at CPF! I'm sure their engineers would at least appreciate our enthusiasm.

We're looking at bulbpornovision, they're rolling their eyes and making up really mean and inappropriate jokes about our "strange" behavior....
 

fivemega

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/15/09 (Newer Info Added)

I wonder if any of these bulb manufacturers have any idea how much we push and psychoanalyze their bulbs here at CPF! I'm sure their engineers would at least appreciate our enthusiasm.
This is part of their design and they test several samples, make correction, another batch of samples and...
Some actual tests are done by bulb manufacturer for maximum voltage, minimum output, average life... and some tests are done by flashlight manufacturer for reliability.
You will never see firefighter flashlight with 10 hours bulb life and 3450K because is not reliable for that purpose.
Same thing applies for tactical flashlights because won't even last for first fire shock.
Anybody remembers shortage of MN20 for several months? They had to redesign several times to meet flashlight manufacturer spec.
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/15/09 (Newer Info Added)

This is part of their design and they test several samples, make correction, another batch of samples and...
Some actual tests are done by bulb manufacturer for maximum voltage, minimum output, average life... and some tests are done by flashlight manufacturer for reliability.
You will never see firefighter flashlight with 10 hours bulb life and 3450K because is not reliable for that purpose.
Same thing applies for tactical flashlights because won't even last for first fire shock.
Anybody remembers shortage of MN20 for several months? They had to redesign several times to meet flashlight manufacturer spec.

Great information, and all makes good sense! Thank you!
 

Starlight

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Lux, I don't want to hijack your thread, but please check your PM.
 

JimmyM

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

RE: Osram ministar.
One thing I haven't seen discussed yet is the subject of heat. With a normal bulb and a tightly fitting reflector, a lot of light still hits the bulb socket and elsewhere behind the bulb. With this reflectorized envelope I would imagine that the heat behind the reflector would be reduced.
 

sami_voodoo

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

RE: Osram ministar.
One thing I haven't seen discussed yet is the subject of heat. With a normal bulb and a tightly fitting reflector, a lot of light still hits the bulb socket and elsewhere behind the bulb. With this reflectorized envelope I would imagine that the heat behind the reflector would be reduced.

Is the reflectorised envelope opaque or slightly transparent? If it's opaque, wouldn't the beam shape be defined by the bulb envelope and not the reflector?

Cheers!
Sami
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Is the reflectorised envelope opaque or slightly transparent? If it's opaque, wouldn't the beam shape be defined by the bulb envelope and not the reflector?

Cheers!
Sami

Opaque. It looks like the bottom of the bulb was dipped in liquid chrome, but it doesn't come up the sides. As a result, there is still benefit from the reflector. Plus, tiny reflectors like that on the bulb do not give much of a focussed beam (vs. larger reflector).

 
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^^Nova^^

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

I was playing around with some graphs (like lctorana did in this earlier post) of a handful of 6v bulbs. I noticed that the 3854 low bulb seems really efficient. I checked the amp draw of all of the bulbs at about 800 lumens, most of the bulbs are drawing 26-28 watts of power, the 3854L only pulls about 18w, but they are all producing the same amount of light. It draws a lot less amps than the others for some reason.

Here is the graph of the bulbs.


6vbulbs.jpg

Hope this is useful, I find it easier to compare bulbs like this than changing from chart to chart.

EDIT - After it was pointed out to me by petrev, using the predicted lumens may not be as accurate as I first thought. I am going to redo this using the measured lux instead.

Cheers,
Nova
 
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ANDREAS FERRARI

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

I've always suspected that the 3854L was a more efficient bulb-especially when compared to the 3854H.And yet I continue to use it in all my ROP's because I crave more power.I guess that makes me a 'lumens whore'!!!
buttrock.gif
 

JimmyM

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

I've always suspected that the 3854L was a more efficient bulb-especially when compared to the 3854H.And yet I continue to use it in all my ROP's because I crave more power.I guess that makes me a 'lumens whore'!!!
buttrock.gif
You and me both.
One of my favorite all time flashlights was an ROP-Hi using 2 of AWs C Li-Ions with a modified switch that uses an FET.
I also had a Mil Spec HAIII ROP-Low that ran on 2 of AWs Li-Ion C cells.
Alas, they didn't remain after the big sell-off I had to do a year or so ago. :mecry:
 

^^Nova^^

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

The power draw looks like this at the 800 lumen mark -
1111 - 27W
1160 - 27W
1274 - 24.5W
3854L - 18.5W

Quite a difference (unless my maths/science is bad).

Also did the same check for some 1300L capable bulbs, the 64430 draws around 75W while the 1164 only pulls 40W. I never thought there would be such a large difference in power use for a similar amount of light.:thinking:

Cheers,
Nova
 

Nite

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

The power draw looks like this at the 800 lumen mark -
1111 - 27W
1160 - 27W
1274 - 24.5W
3854L - 18.5W

Quite a difference (unless my maths/science is bad).

Also did the same check for some 1300L capable bulbs, the 64430 draws around 75W while the 1164 only pulls 40W. I never thought there would be such a large difference in power use for a similar amount of light.:thinking:

Cheers,
Nova

if this listed the voltages of the bulbs, like 2 or 3 cells, then it would all make sense I think.

for example
A 3 cell FM axial 11 volt bulb is less power draw than FM 1794 @ 7.4 volts but just About as bright.

SO since im not familiar with the above, i assume bi bin 4mm bulbs I dont know their voltages

so im just asking to add the voltages they run at..im almost sure youll see a pattern

wouldnt a 3854L run at a higher voltage if using less watts for same light compared to the 1111 and 1160?

Remember I know nothing about anything and im just making this up as i go along..
but
I just thought a higher voltage can make more light at a lower wattage...

there are so many variables...
 

^^Nova^^

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Nite, you are getting Amps and Watts mixed up. Your post above is correct for amps, but not watts. Amps is a measure of current (which will vary as voltage varies, like you said), while Watts are a measure of power or energy consumed. I'll show the calculations so you can see what I mean.

1111 - 27W
At 822 lumens it runs 7.3v and 3.73A. To work out how many watts of power is being used, multiply voltage by the amps. In this case, 7.3 x 3.73 = 27.3)

1160 - 27W
At 842 lumens, voltage is 6.8, amps are 4.09 which gives 27.8 (6.8 x 4.09 = 27.8). Slightly more power being used but also more lumens so I rounded down to 27w.

1274 - 24.5W
At 806 lumens, voltage is 8.2 with 2.98 amps. Watts used here is 24.4 (I rounded up to 24.5).

3854L - 18.5W
Lastly, the 3854L makes 816 lumens at 8.4volts and draws 2.2amps. This gives 18.48W used.

The difference here is the amount of light that a particular bulb produces for a given wattage of power used.

Cheers,
Nova
 

petrev

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Hi ^^Nova^^

Looks like you are plotting Predicted Lumens Vs Volts

This relies on the manufacturers Lumen rating and I think you should look at making a graph of Measured Lux Vs Volts or Power as this might be more accurate - as we have LuxLuthors actual readings at a given Power I think they probably give a better standardised (LuxLuthor Test Method) relationship between bulbs.

For example

3854L - 8.4V 18.5W 816 Pred.Lumens (44 Pred.Lumens/W)
- Measured Lux = 45 Lux (2.43 Lux/W)

WA1111 - 7.3V 27.3W 822 Pred.Lumens (30.1 Pred.Lumens/W)
- Measured Lux = 76 Lux (2.78 Lux/W)

As we can see while the predicted Lumens are equivalent, giving a much better efficiency for the 3854L, the actual Measured Lux are just not equivalent producing a much more similar efficiency rating (slightly more efficient 3854L).

Can you do a graph of Measured Lux vs Power-In please as I'm sure that would be useful to people.

Cheers
Pete

ps. Do you have LuxLuthors actual data or are you transcribing from the .jpg versions and which version of Excel are you using ?
 

^^Nova^^

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Hi Pete,

Yeah, I am plotting predicted lumens against voltage. I had not looked at using the measured lux values, now that I have had a quick look, I agree that it will be a better comparison. If I get some time this week I will give it a shot and see how different it looks. Thanks for pointing the measured lux/predicted lumens difference.

As for the graphs, I am just copying from the .jpg files from the first post, although having the .xls files would make it easier, especially if I attempt to plot watts against lux (save me from calculating each power reading). I am using Office 95 still (I generally use Open Office, but decided to use Excell for the charts).
 

petrev

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Hi Pete,

Yeah, I am plotting predicted lumens against voltage. I had not looked at using the measured lux values, now that I have had a quick look, I agree that it will be a better comparison. If I get some time this week I will give it a shot and see how different it looks. Thanks for pointing the measured lux/predicted lumens difference.

As for the graphs, I am just copying from the .jpg files from the first post, although having the .xls files would make it easier, especially if I attempt to plot watts against lux (save me from calculating each power reading). I am using Office 95 still (I generally use Open Office, but decided to use Excell for the charts).

Hi Nova

Lots of work transcribing . . .

Nice graphs from OFF-95 - For some reason my OFF-97 refuses to draw the actual line in that nice simple mode you have ? I just get the points plotted even though I set it for lines ? ? ? ?

Keep up the good work
Cheers
Pete
 

^^Nova^^

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 5/22/09 (Newer Info Added)

Hi Nova

Lots of work transcribing . . .

Nice graphs from OFF-95 - For some reason my OFF-97 refuses to draw the actual line in that nice simple mode you have ? I just get the points plotted even though I set it for lines ? ? ? ?

Keep up the good work
Cheers
Pete
Hi Pete,

To remove the point markers on the graph line, right click on the line, select "format data series", then under the "patterns" tab, there is a section titled "marker", set this to none. I also change the thickness of the line which is under "weight" on the line side of the same tab.

I did a graph of measured lux for the 6v bulbs I graphed earlier, looks a bit different. I'll post it up in a sec.

Cheers,
Nova
 
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