Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it's ALL GOOD!"

[BuddTX]

Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

I was walking my dog, after an evening of "traipsing and galavanting" about Houston with my friend (I must be getting old, I got home before midnight!) and I have 3 Princeton Tec Attitude;s velcro'ed to my retractable dog leash, and I really think that the Attitude's are just about perfect for my application.

They are light weight, the three of them hardly put any real weight on my leash, considering how much my dog sometimes pulls, they put out a nice light (esp with three!) I am still thrilled about my first "MOD" (ok, so you out there who build circuit boards, tapeing some velcro to a light is not really a mod, but I still like it, and it has been working very well for a long while!)

But, I was wishing that either Princeton Tec would make a "Special" edition for us CPF people that offered a regulated version, or that someone would come out with a AAA lithium battery.

So I am thinking about this (I should be thinking about considering hooking up with girl friend (to be named sometime in the future!) sometime this decade!) as I am walking my dog. I also had my Streamlight 4AA, 7 led light, and my Inova X5.

Also, today I went to Fry's, and they had the new Rayovac Maximum Plus (blue) 8 AA on sale, for 2.99, and they also had a very good price on AA lithium batteries (8.99 for 4). I had like 4 packs of the Rayovac's in my cart, when I saw the price of the lithium, (4 for 8.99) and I had 3 or 4 packs of 4aa lithiums in my cart, and i was also thinking about the graphs that Roy had posted, and I started thinking.

Doing some math, I could buy 24 very fresh, considered by many here to be the best (along with the costco brand) alkaline batteries, for the same price as 4 lithium batteries.

Is that a good deal? I know the lithiums give a little extra "omph", and if money was no object, and if I could just change out batteries every day, or multiple times a day, sure, I would take the lithiums, of course. But I had to think realisticly, the Rayovac offered really exceptional value. So I put the lithiums back.

Getting back to my daydreaming (night dreaming?) while walking my dog, and thinking about how I was fooled, by one of my first LED lights, in thinking how bright the light was,when in fact it was dim and did not want to do that again. LED lights, as you know, maintain the same color, just loose intensity when the battery runs down. I was wondering if it was time to change the batteries in my Attitudes yet, and was wishing that they were similar to my Oaplec Newbeam.

Then it hit me. Change the batteries once or twice a month. What will it cost you, 4.50 per change for all three lights?

Do I really need lithiums? I don't think so.

So I was thinking, voltage regulation, it' great! One of my favorite every day use lights is my Opalec newbeam, even if it is not as bright as my "powerhouse" LED lights, it is a really nice light.

And I was also thinking, Direct Drive, it it's great! My Streamlight 4AA, 7 led light really gives off the light, and it was nicely priced.

Now I was seriously thinking that if Streamlight did both Voltage Regulation, combined with a dc to dc inverter, in their 4Aa 7LED light, to provide maximum brightness for 10-20 hours or so, that would also be good combination, but how much would it add to the price of the light?

Anyway, time for bed, I just thought I would post this.

 

[Wolfen]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

I think I remember someone saying that a voltage regulator could be made with 2 resistors and two transistors. How much could that cost?

I ordered two of those 4AA 7 Led SL. I wish someone could offer drop in voltage regulator for it.

 

[MDM]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

BuddTX: What does direct drive mean?

Also, thanks for tipping us off about the SL 4AA and 3N when they first came out. I bought one of each and am very pleased. The 4AA switch takes some getting used to (I either have to move my hand further to the rear to get enough leverage for my thumb, or use my index finger to click it on). In the same order, I bought a SL Stylus, which is very handy (and bright) as well.

 

[Albany Tom]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Sounds like you had a nice day out!

I think there's a place for the non-regulated light too. With a regulated light, the designer either picks a bright light, with shorter run time, or a dim light, with long run time. With an unregulated light, you get both!

Seriously, the 4AA-LED streamlight (They have got to get a better name for this) is BRIGHT, just bought it, love it, and it ought to be just fine, from what I've seen on here, for about 5 hours. After that, the user (me) picks putting in new batteries, or waits until it becomes too dim to use. Unlike an "inc" flashlight, as the LED dims, it uses less current, and doesn't develop a funny color, so it's useable way longer, and dims more gradually.

I think I'm going to love the newbeam I have on order, too. It's kinda like NiMh or Alks - with radios, if you're running NiMh, you get about 5 seconds warning that you're about to have dead batteries. With alkalines, you have a few minutes. In an emergency, sometimes that 5 second warning kinda sucks. (Yes, I know, spare batteries, and I carry them. But for those few seconds when you're changing batteries, you're out of communication.)

 

[Alan]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Originally posted by Albany Tom:
I think there's a place for the non-regulated light too. With a regulated light, the designer either picks a bright light, with shorter run time, or a dim light, with long run time. With an unregulated light, you get both!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem is that you can't control when to get bright or dim light. For unregulated light, it might be too bright and draws too much current when you only need little light and vise versa. You could switch old/new batteries to control it. It is not practical in real life.

The best of both world should be regulated light with switch over - bright and dim. Of course, this will add up the cost tremendously.

For LED light, I carry New Beam for low light and Badboy for medium light. I could assure these tools could serve me right amount of light.

Another solution is to use rechargeables on unregulated light. It might not as bright as alkaline when the alkaline is real fresh, it maintain brightness longer than alkaline and you could charge it up whenever you like it. NiMH and SL4AA LED will be a good combination if you use it on daily activity like walking dog.

Alan

 

[BuddTX]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Direct Drive - The power deliverd by the batteies goes directly to the light. All SureFire lights are a good example of a direct drive light- Mag-lights are a bad example of a direct drive light.

Regulated - No matter how weak or powerful the batteries, the light will deliver the same exact light output, until the batteries are almost dead, the Opalec Newbeam is a GOOD example of this.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Hey Bud,

Small world. I passed and spied Costco on my way out to Katy to Bass Pro Shops last night. What can you tell me about that place as opposed to 'Cost Plus' that my Sister so dotes on?

And by the way BPS ain't THE place to shop for lights but had handheld and spot stuff fairly well covered. REI is THE place for headlamps!

And at Frys like Saturday a week ago I saw some clickie tail caps for AA Mini Mags. Did you see any?

I'm out the 45s not too far from Hobby...

 

[BuddTX]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Playboy Joe Schmoe,

I am in Pearland, and I work in the Texas Med Center. Small world.

I am a SAM'S member. Never been to Costco or Cost plus.

I went to Fry's on Saturday, and did not see any tailaps. When did you see them there?

I need to trek out to REI sometime.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

It would have been Saturday the 7th that I saw them. It is unlikely that I would make that trip by myself. That day a buddy wanted to go to check out computers, and I was back Thursday since I was in that part of town for work.

Why did you mention costco batteries if you haven't been to the store?

Oh and I like Rayovacs just fine!

Oh and my TEC 40 has the supplied Energizer AAs and a 3.6 KPR103 in it and rivals my LX and Prodigy for bright white light!

It truly is a small world.

 

[MDM]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

PlayboyJoeShmoe: Costco has the cheapest (but good) AA batteries (made by Duracell). I bought a 48 pack recently for $10.79.

 

[RY3]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Originally posted by BuddTX:
Direct Drive - The power deliverd by the batteies goes directly to the light. All SureFire lights are a good example of a direct drive light- Mag-lights are a bad example of a direct drive light.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any reason why MagLite is a bad example? Are you sure it is not because of the type of battery they are using?

Just wondering.

Ron

 

[Doug S]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Originally posted by Wolfen:
I think I remember someone saying that a voltage regulator could be made with 2 resistors and two transistors. How much could that cost?

I ordered two of those 4AA 7 Led SL. I wish someone could offer drop in voltage regulator for it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was probably me. Actually, it was a constant current regulator which is what you want. Cost is negligible for parts. I've been wanting to look at, and constant current mod, one of these lights. If you are interested, and are willing to pay postage both ways, I will mod one for you for free [I'll supply the materials].
At couple of caveats to consider:
I am not a fan of grossly overdriven LEDs and would consider a maximum set current in the range of 250-300 mA. From freeback I've gotten from others about the relative inaccessibility of the existing ballast resistors, I may have to leave them in the circuit which is another reason to select the set current no higher than the value above to obtain flat output over the majority of battery life. BTW, if you want a set current lower than 250-300 mA, that is no problem. The regulator design I have in mind does allow the feature of when the light is first turned on, intially operating at a somewhat higher current and then backing the current down a bit as things heat up.
I've got alot going on right now and it might be a week or two until I get to your mod.
There is the chance that once I look at this light, I decide that the physical geometry precludes installing a mod. In this case, you are out the postage for nothing in return.

BTW, should Wolfen not be interested, This offer is extended to others. I am only interested in doing this once, however.

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

If the light already has resistors in it, won't they need to come out?

I would love to get my hands on a current regulator. I am thinking of doing 9 x 3mm to drop in a MiniMag.

Thanks,
- Vikas

 

[Doug S]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

Originally posted by Vikas Sontakke:
If the light already has resistors in it, won't they need to come out?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the case of this light, apparently each LED is individually ballasted with 12 ohms. If the CC regulator was set for an average of 30 mA/LED, these resistors would only be dropping .36V. Since this is a 4AA light, for the majority of the battery discharge there would be enough available voltage to accomodate the LED voltage plus this additional 0.36V.

 

[BuddTX]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

In re-reading my original post, I realised that I did not post my final summary, so here it is:

Regulated lights, and DC to DC converters are nice, actually prefered. If I could have the brightest light in any catagory, and if it could give me the maximum brightness (even brighter than a direct drive), and a CONSTANT brightness throughout most of the life of the battery, then quickly drop in light intensity, it would be a great light. Adding to that, if I could use Lithium batteries, to get like 50 % longer runtime (or at least a significant increase in runtime) what a great combination. If I had to use a light daily, for mission critical operations, this is what I would prefer.

HOWEVER, this would come at a very expensive price. (OK we all know that us flashoholics would buy these up pretty fast, if, say SureFire or Streamlight came out with something like this!)

Direct Drive lights, are less expensive, and from what I am reading here, seem to run longer, because there is no efficency loss in the electronics. Also, the availibility of very inexpensive, high quality Alkaline batteries, make it cost efficient to just change the batteries more often in your lights, and you get maximum brightness when you put those new batteries in the light.

So, someday we will have the perfect light, with absolute maximum brightness, and even brightness until the batteries are almost dead, and those batteries will give us a very long run time. Until then, just change the batteries a little more often (and put the used batteries in you Opalec Newbeam!)

 

[BuddTX]

Re: Direct Drive vs Regulated, Alkaline vs Lithium, "it\'s ALL GOOD!"

I was rambling on my first post, so I put my summary here, don't know if it was read by anybody, so here is a bump.