dont ever move to a small town!!!!!

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Lou Minescence

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I'm reading about the dirtbike and ATV riders running around NY city in a lawless fashion. We did the same in the small town I grew up in. No legal place to ride so we rode where we didn't get noticed much. Chased by police, etc. Only the people swinging shovels at us were terrorized.
 

Monocrom

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Do you realize those things go upwards of 40 mph? And the riders are happy to ride on sidewalks or wherever to evade the police. You're right in principal but wrong in practice. Chasing these thugs down is going to hurt/kill more people than they're hurting/killing now.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember the days we instituted a national 55 mph speed limit. Of course it largely wasn't obeyed but "safety" was the second reason given for it after saving fuel, which was the primary reason. When we saw it wasn't being obeyed, you started having draconian enforcement. More people died due to police chases than supposedly would have been saved by the lower speed. Police chases in urban areas especially are problematic.
Forget 55mph as the national speed limit. Even in NYC, I own a car. (There are parts of NYC where public transit is pathetic. Where I currently work at at night, unless it's Monday to Friday during Rush Hour, you'd legitimately need a car to reliably get there and back home.) City maybe just over a year ago decided to put 25mph speed limits in place on all roads.... Speed Camera enforced!

Usual "Safety" B.S., but we all know it's to collect revenue. They were smart too. Latest war on the Working Class means it's just easier to pay the usual $50 fine per violation. But no worries. You don't get points added to your license. However, if you wish to fight the ticket; one, there's photo evidence you went over the limit. (Nevermind the fact that on most streets the limit was 35mph or 40mph for decades! Doesn't matter.) And, you lose a day's pay trying to fight the ticket in person. But just plead guilty and you can pay over the phone or by mail. Plead not-guilty, and they make it extremely difficult on you.

The ridiculous 25mph new limit means you can safely travel at 30mph. But if you go over 39mph, the cameras go off. At night, the flashes blind drivers. Waiting until a fatal accident causes the city to get sued into re-thinking their latest obscene greedy cash-grab.
 

JoeJoe

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It's hard to believe people still have trouble accessing medical/mental health care. I live/work in one of the poorest regions in the country and we have access to everything we need. Sad state of affairs we've let the country get in.
What? We have NO trouble, just distance. They are different. You said you have it, so how are you able to say such a thing? What sad state of affairs? The current med system works fine. If you live far out, you know it will take longer for care. That simple.
 

jtr1962

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Forget 55mph as the national speed limit. Even in NYC, I own a car. (There are parts of NYC where public transit is pathetic. Where I currently work at at night, unless it's Monday to Friday during Rush Hour, you'd legitimately need a car to reliably get there and back home.
The problem is our mass transit system is mostly geared getting people from the outer boroughs to Manhattan, and not traveling within a borough. That's something that eventually needs to be fixed but you're right that for some uses public transit won't cut it. I'd personally use a bike or e-bike in that situation instead of a car. Don't want to buy something that's going to cost me four figures a year to own whether I use it or not, not to mention the hassle of getting/keeping a driver's license, or the initial purchase price. Then there's parking. I have a driveway but the destination may not have easy parking. Can't drive anyway (severe CTS), plus I get car sick, especially in any kind of heavy traffic, from exhaust fumes and VOCs outgassing from car interiors (newer cars affect me much more in this regard).
City maybe just over a year ago decided to put 25mph speed limits in place on all roads.... Speed Camera enforced!

Usual "Safety" B.S., but we all know it's to collect revenue. They were smart too. Latest war on the Working Class means it's just easier to pay the usual $50 fine per violation. But no worries. You don't get points added to your license. However, if you wish to fight the ticket; one, there's photo evidence you went over the limit. (Nevermind the fact that on most streets the limit was 35mph or 40mph for decades! Doesn't matter.) And, you lose a day's pay trying to fight the ticket in person. But just plead guilty and you can pay over the phone or by mail. Plead not-guilty, and they make it extremely difficult on you.

The ridiculous 25mph new limit means you can safely travel at 30mph. But if you go over 39mph, the cameras go off. At night, the flashes blind drivers. Waiting until a fatal accident causes the city to get sued into re-thinking their latest obscene greedy cash-grab.
They should at least maybe have a higher limit at night. BTW, the cameras trip at 10 mph or more over the limit. Keep it at 34 mph or less, you're safe. On the few streets left with 30 mph limits, 39 mph is the magic number.

Yeah, the LIE service road was posted at 40 mph when we moved here. Now it's 30 mph. I can go faster than that on my bicycle.

IMO we would save more lives cracking down on reckless, stupid driving, like jockeying for position to gain 20 feet at a red light, than we will being obsessed with speed. Sure, faster can potentially be more dangerous, but speed only kills if accompanied by stupid driving habits.
 

bigburly912

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What? We have NO trouble, just distance. They are different. You said you have it, so how are you able to say such a thing? What sad state of affairs? The current med system works fine. If you live far out, you know it will take longer for care. That simple.
Apparently the people in this thread who say that they don't have easy access won't agree with you. Kind of odd you came at me with your post instead of telling the people who don't have access that they are wrong. Keep on internetting though. It's good for ya.

Edit to add my post was pretty tongue in cheek considering I literally do live in the worst economic region in the country and we have medical care/mental health care everywhere.
 

JoeJoe

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Do you realize those things go upwards of 40 mph? And the riders are happy to ride on sidewalks or wherever to evade the police. You're right in principal but wrong in practice. Chasing these thugs down is going to hurt/kill more people than they're hurting/killing now.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember the days we instituted a national 55 mph speed limit. Of course it largely wasn't obeyed but "safety" was the second reason given for it after saving fuel, which was the primary reason. When we saw it wasn't being obeyed, you started having draconian enforcement. More people died due to police chases than supposedly would have been saved by the lower speed. Police chases in urban areas especially are problematic.
You are wrong in practice and principle. Deterrence is the best way to curb crime like you speak of. When you let ALL go toward your philosophy, more speed and more go over 40 and more find other ways of speeding. Deterrence is the only way. You are 100% wrong where you say more people died due to police chases than going over 55. That is not true. Prove your stats? You cannot. Sometimes friendlies get hurt, but not often. Those going over 40 hurt people as well and do not care. The sidewalk is for WALKERS. With your philosophy (of a BIG town), all get by with doing what they want, when they want and as fast as they want. Draconian enforcement? WTH does that mean? It is called law and ORDER. Your words do not make sense. Not in a small town answers your protective of crime responses. Do you carry, a gun, a torch? Or is it more justified to do a crime versus flashing someone's eyes? Where do you stand as far as torches or other self defense for offense or defense? Example. NY. It is a crime cesspool according to news and this thread. I agree. When Giuliana was Mayor years ago, and they pursued crime, it dropped like a rock in a pond, people visited NY and loved it. When NY said currently to back off of crime, it rose to current day highest levels of all time. o one wants to go there.
 

JoeJoe

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I'm reading about the dirtbike and ATV riders running around NY city in a lawless fashion. We did the same in the small town I grew up in. No legal place to ride so we rode where we didn't get noticed much. Chased by police, etc. Only the people swinging shovels at us were terrorized.
Well, I wish you were busted.
 

JoeJoe

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Apparently the people in this thread who say that they don't have easy access won't agree with you. Kind of odd you came at me with your post instead of telling the people who don't have access that they are wrong. Keep on internetting though. It's good for ya.

Edit to add my post was pretty tongue in cheek considering I literally do live in the worst economic region in the country and we have medical care/mental health care everywhere.
No, you are wrong. You repeatedly say you are the WORST ECONOMIC REGION IN THE COUNTRY, YOU HAVE MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH EVERYWHERE. I do not come after anyone nor care about you at all. I am making a point that you are the WORST in the USA and yet you have all available in MEDICAL CARE. You argue against yourself and the point. Just if you are far away, it takes longer to get to. That is logical. That WAS MY ONLY point. And I stand by it. I am not arguing with you at all, rather I am agreeing with you. Which makes the rural town argument for healthcare valid, and for large areas invalid. But to also point out that we have the BEST healthcare system in the entire world.
 

bigburly912

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No, you are wrong. You repeatedly say you are the WORST ECONOMIC REGION IN THE COUNTRY, YOU HAVE MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH EVERYWHERE. I do not come after anyone nor care about you at all. I am making a point that you are the WORST in the USA and yet you have all available in MEDICAL CARE. You argue against yourself and the point. Just if you are far away, it takes longer to get to. That is logical. That WAS MY ONLY point. And I stand by it. I am not arguing with you at all, rather I am agreeing with you. Which makes the rural town argument for healthcare valid, and for large areas invalid. But to also point out that we have the BEST healthcare system in the entire world.
What are you trying to get across here. Arguing with myself and my point? Hmmmm. You aren't even making sense now? Did you read some of my responses and someone else's or something.

We do have the best healthcare in the world I'll agree with you on that. You misread everything everyone in this thread has typed out….maybe?

I promise you nobody here cares about you with your all caps rants and nonsense spewing either.

Have a good day and enjoy your flashlights or whatever the hell you are doing here. I had more typed out but I am probably just going to ignore you from now on so once again….. have a good day and enjoy your flashlights. Haha poor feller. If you don't calm down you may need some of that healthcare for the coronary you are going to give yourself.
 

bigburly912

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All I see is this.
 

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jtr1962

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I want to see you pull 30mph on a bicycle for any stretch of distance. Color me impressed!
On level ground with no wind I can sustain 18 to 22 mph, depending upon how I feel. Add slight downhills and/or tailwinds, it's not hard to break 30 mph, sometimes for long stretches. In winters we typically have strong winds blowing east. When I'm riding eastbound on some arterials my bike computer (and GPS) will say 55 or 60 km/hr for blocks. I prefer metric but for the metrically challenged that's 34 to 37 mph.

When I was in my 20s I could sustain ~35 mph on level roads for a few blocks, maybe 30 mph for half a mile.

Peak speeds? 65 mph once in NJ (steep hill plus strong tailwind). 61 mph once descending the Queensboro Bridge into Queens under similar conditions. That said, I don't go over about 40 mph very often these days. Lately the streets are in such poor condition I'd rather not chance it.
 

jtr1962

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You are wrong in practice and principle. Deterrence is the best way to curb crime like you speak of. When you let ALL go toward your philosophy, more speed and more go over 40 and more find other ways of speeding. Deterrence is the only way. You are 100% wrong where you say more people died due to police chases than going over 55. That is not true. Prove your stats? You cannot. Sometimes friendlies get hurt, but not often. Those going over 40 hurt people as well and do not care. The sidewalk is for WALKERS. With your philosophy (of a BIG town), all get by with doing what they want, when they want and as fast as they want.
And the best way of deterring the problem I'm talking about is to confiscate the vehicles, preferably before they're sold to these miscreants. Or failing that, the police can rely on tips as to where the owners store these vehicles, and conduct a raid. They actually do that somewhat regularly, but apparently not often enough.

As others have mentioned, many police departments have been instructed not to give chase. All it takes is one death or serious injury of a bystander to make a major public relations nightmare.

Draconian enforcement? WTH does that mean? It is called law and ORDER. Your words do not make sense.
It means enforcing a law to the point it's virtually impossible to violate it. Most of the time the police react to crimes, not prevent them. There isn't enough manpower to do the latter.
Not in a small town answers your protective of crime responses. Do you carry, a gun, a torch? Or is it more justified to do a crime versus flashing someone's eyes? Where do you stand as far as torches or other self defense for offense or defense?
It's illegal to own or carry a gun in NYC, so no I don't carry one. I usually don't carry a torch either, although I guess my bike headlights qualify when I'm out riding. I'm fine with whatever self-defense measures are legal where I live. If we ever legalized firearms, maybe I'd buy a few for home defense. Not sure I'd want the legal liability associated with carrying one.
Example. NY. It is a crime cesspool according to news and this thread. I agree. When Giuliana was Mayor years ago, and they pursued crime, it dropped like a rock in a pond, people visited NY and loved it. When NY said currently to back off of crime, it rose to current day highest levels of all time. No one wants to go there.
No, parts of NYC are a crime cesspool now. I feel perfectly comfortable walking in my neighborhood at 2 AM. Don't believe all the garbage you hear on the news.

As for Giuliani, my summation of him was first term great, second term not so great. First term he had the police crack down on a lot of minor crimes which were often gateways to worse crimes. If someone got away mugging people, or shoplifting, why not graduate to auto theft or rape next? So by nipping these people in the bud, the police took a lot of criminals off the streets before they became major felons. Second term? That's where he lost a lot of support. He started going after BS stuff like having a beer on your stoop (i.e. open container law), being in parks after dark, jaywalking, sidewalk cycling, etc. Basically a lot of people who had never been in trouble with the law were getting tickets for stuff they often didn't even know was illegal. These people weren't going to become hardened criminals if they weren't ticketed for these things. This overpolicing is responsible in part for policies which now handcuff the police from doing their jobs, even when it's warranted. Bottom line, Giuliani should have stuck to going after pickpockets, aggressive panhandlers, squeegee men, shoplifters, etc. There he had wide support, plus getting these people off the streets actually reduced more serious crimes.
 

Lights and Guns

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Wow, sounds like you don't live in the same NYC I do. I know some things have gotten worse over the last few years, but most parts aren't the dystopia you're making it out to be.


Driving here is worse than taking public transit. Two hours to get from my place to Manhattan (unless it's 3AM)? No thanks. Not to mention where the heck do you park when you get there? That could kill another hour. Then you have constant road rage incidents, plus 90% of the people here can't drive (although that seems to be a problem nationally, not just in NYC).

Blame our for-profit medical system for that one. We pay twice as much for inferior outcomes compared to other first world countries. It's not a unique problem to big cities, either. I've known people who travel all over the country, and tell me hospitals in many rural areas are positively third world. You might have some great general practitioners who are vested in their patients, but better hope you never get anything serious enough to land you in a hospital. And maybe if you didn't incur six figures of debt to go to medical school more people would become doctors to help relieve the work load.

This is why I won't live in an apartment. Anywhere, not just in NYC. We're in a paid for house in eastern Queens. Thankfully we left the housing projects back in 1978.

If you think things are bad now, I guess you missed the 1970s through mid-1980s. I used to take the subway to high school. Every third train got taken out of service. The ones that did run were all covered in graffiti, plus half the doors and lights didn't work. Yet I made it. I'll admit the subways have been backsliding the last few years but they're not even close to what they were at their worst. Getting the mentally ill homeless out would help a lot.

Maybe because people love to emphasize their differences instead of seeing what they have in common? I've noticed this has gotten a lot worse over the last 6 or 7 years, and especially since the pandemic.

You're right about the ridiculous rents. IMO this is really the biggest problem in city right now. That's the city's fault for not upzoning areas, along with speculation driving housing prices through the roof (actually that's a national problem).

I have a lot of issues with what both schools and parents shove down their kids' throats. A lot of the hatred you mentioned earlier is learned at home.

We thankfully got rid of that clown. Not that Adams is much better but at least he's not super far left like the moron before him.

I've lived here my entire life. The biggest mistake we made with the police was getting rid of beat cops. They walked the neighborhoods, knew people, and their presence helped deter crime. Then someone got the bright idea to stick most of them in patrol cars. They also removed the residency requirement, which was another huge mistake. 9/11 made things worse as police forces nationally militarized. End result of all these things is the NYPD became more like an occupation force than a police force. That's why policing became political. The police had to be reigned in. Even my late father, who was a LEO, told me the current crop of cops are a bunch of thugs. Not all of them, but enough to give the entire force a bad name.

Who keeps selling these dirt bikes and ATVs to unruly youths? That's who the city needs to go after. Shut down any store that sells them. And do the same with any gas station that sells them gas. These vehicles are 100% illegal to own or use in NYC. Stop them at the source. Cops aren't going after them on the streets for the simple reason chasing them down is going to cause more problems than it solves. What happens if bystanders get killed in the middle of a chase? Big lawsuit for the city.

1) The NYPD didn't need to be reigned in at all. They should have continued doing exactly what they were doing. That's when this city was under control.

2) "Who keeps selling the bikes". It's not just dirt bikes and ATV's... The bigger problem is the Mo-peds both electric and gas powered are the bigger issue. Those are 100% LEGAL to own, and ride on the street, so stores can legally sell those without any problems. The issue is all of these perps aren't buying their moped, they are stealing them. Then they ride around the city and cause mayhem without a license plate attached to the moped so no way of tracking who's doing what. Not only that, these guys are evading tolls on bridges and tunnels and speed trip cameras and red light cameras. --- SO the police not feeling comfortable going after THE PERPS comitting these CRIMES, Is THE ISSUE. ---> Lets not make excuses for the perps actions, how about we hold the scum bags accountable instead? Bring back TOUGH ON CRIME, arrest the perps and make them do real time, get them out of society so the rest of the actual law abiding citizens can enjoy peace and quiet and not fear walking down the block and getting robbed.

3) "driving here is worse than public transportation due to road rage"... That made me chuckle. I guess you enjoy the random homeless guys smelling up your train car smoking weed and K2 right next to you, hell you cant walk down a city block without getting high on weed now. Its disgusting. The city has gone to crap BIG TIME. Not as bad as the 80's. But certainly nowhere near as great at it was in the early 2000's.
 

Lights and Guns

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Forget 55mph as the national speed limit. Even in NYC, I own a car. (There are parts of NYC where public transit is pathetic. Where I currently work at at night, unless it's Monday to Friday during Rush Hour, you'd legitimately need a car to reliably get there and back home.) City maybe just over a year ago decided to put 25mph speed limits in place on all roads.... Speed Camera enforced!

Usual "Safety" B.S., but we all know it's to collect revenue. They were smart too. Latest war on the Working Class means it's just easier to pay the usual $50 fine per violation. But no worries. You don't get points added to your license. However, if you wish to fight the ticket; one, there's photo evidence you went over the limit. (Nevermind the fact that on most streets the limit was 35mph or 40mph for decades! Doesn't matter.) And, you lose a day's pay trying to fight the ticket in person. But just plead guilty and you can pay over the phone or by mail. Plead not-guilty, and they make it extremely difficult on you.

The ridiculous 25mph new limit means you can safely travel at 30mph. But if you go over 39mph, the cameras go off. At night, the flashes blind drivers. Waiting until a fatal accident causes the city to get sued into re-thinking their latest obscene greedy cash-grab.
Agree with everything you said, however those cameras don't flash if you go 39...

They flash if you go 36. ( I've gotten nailed twice at 36!)

Apparently they give you a 10 MPH cushion anything above that and your done.

So 25+10=35 (Your fine)
36=ticket.
 

thermal guy

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So wait. It's technically a speeding ticket but you don't get points on your license?
 
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