dreamscape lighting, 97 and 98 CRI architectural LED fixtures

Anders Hoveland

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I think super high CRI LED emitters are now just beginning to appear in architectural light fixtures.

I have been checking out the website of dreamscape lighting manufacturing, inc.
particularly their 'Reflections V Damp Location High CRI LED Bath and Vanity Lighting' and 'DLED-9000 Recessed Dimmable LED Linear Fixture with Acrylic Diffuser'

http://www.dreamscapelighting.com/dream_product/reflections-v-high-cri-led-bath-and-vanity-lighting/

http://www.dreamscapelighting.com/dream_product/recessed-dimmable-led-linear-fixture/

The first is rated 97 CRI, 3000K (R9 93) and the second is rated is rated 98 CRI. I am not sure what type of emitters they are using (what brand, or whether they are blue-chip or violet-chip emitters).
Taking the numbers from the specifications, the efficiency seems very high too. I am a little suspicious if these specifications are real, but they seem to be a reputable company, and many of their other products only claim 95 CRI (which is much more believable, I have a 95 CRI LED fixture that was bought 3 years ago).
 

SemiMan

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I think super high CRI LED emitters are now just beginning to appear in architectural light fixtures.

I have been checking out the website of dreamscape lighting manufacturing, inc.
particularly their 'Reflections V Damp Location High CRI LED Bath and Vanity Lighting' and 'DLED-9000 Recessed Dimmable LED Linear Fixture with Acrylic Diffuser'

http://www.dreamscapelighting.com/dream_product/reflections-v-high-cri-led-bath-and-vanity-lighting/

http://www.dreamscapelighting.com/dream_product/recessed-dimmable-led-linear-fixture/

The first is rated 97 CRI, 3000K (R9 93) and the second is rated is rated 98 CRI. I am not sure what type of emitters they are using (what brand, or whether they are blue-chip or violet-chip emitters).
Taking the numbers from the specifications, the efficiency seems very high too. I am a little suspicious if these specifications are real, but they seem to be a reputable company, and many of their other products only claim 95 CRI (which is much more believable, I have a 95 CRI LED fixture that was bought 3 years ago).

All it takes is one LM79 Report with a 97CRI to be able to claim .. 97CRI (which is only Ra).

They are using SMT emitters and only Yuji comes close to this that I know ... though I think I have another data sheet from someone else. The LM79 shows a smooth spectrum.

I am going to guess custom diffuser with some filtering capacity. Been there, done that .... actually the diffuser can be quite a pain for maintaining color ... heck, even the paint used on the inside of a fixture can screw up the color good or bad.
 

markr6

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I saw "Anders Hoveland" and "CRI", so I immediately came here just to see if the first response was by SemiMan :) You guys crack me up!
 

SemiMan

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LOL but I keep Anders on his toes and the quality of the posts and information in them has gone way up.
 

beanbag

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I just have a general question, which is how do us retail consumers exchange money for these products? Or more specifically, just the shining parts? It looks like these are somehow bundled with all kinds of fancy trimmings, and meant to be bought by installers to work on big projects. All I need is some ghetto strips of brightness from the beams of my ceiling. And how come there are these things with very high CRI's and high R9's across the board, and all I can find (without really knowing where to look) are these 80 and 90 CRI products like the CREEs with R9 in the 50's. What am I missing out here? Where is the easily accessible good stuff?
 

Anders Hoveland

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I just have a general question, which is how do us retail consumers exchange money for these products? Or more specifically, just the shining parts? It looks like these are somehow bundled with all kinds of fancy trimmings, and meant to be bought by installers to work on big projects. All I need is some ghetto strips of brightness from the beams of my ceiling. And how come there are these things with very high CRI's and high R9's across the board, and all I can find (without really knowing where to look) are these 80 and 90 CRI products like the CREEs with R9 in the 50's. What am I missing out here? Where is the easily accessible good stuff?
I am not really entirely sure what type or brand of emitters dreamscape lighting is using, which is why I posted this thread in the first place.

As far as I know, Yuji is [or was] the only company offering super high CRI strip lighting.

It is possible for a 3000K blue-emitter LED to achieve 97 CRI, the really high-end LEDs, but it is only able to do this by achieving a 98 R9 and R9a.
The 97CRI LED from dreamscape only claims an R9 of 93, which makes me more inclined to believe it is a violet-chip LED. Then there is the efficiency. While violet-emitter LEDs do tend to be less efficient than blue-emitter LEDs, there is also a very substantial drop in efficiency increasing the R9a value, since deep wavelength red LED phosphor is not that efficient. So in this case, with a 3000K 97CRI, it may well be that a violet-chip white LED has better efficiency than a blue-chip white LED to achieve the same CRI at this low color temperature.

There are some high CRI (95 or 96) emitter brands out there that could have easily achieved a CRI rating 1 point higher (to 96 or 97) if they had just gone with better red phosphor in their formulations, but they choose not to do so because it would have meant a fairly significant (~7-14%) drop in efficiency and lumen output.
[disclaimer: this is just my opinion from looking at the spectral graphs for these various LED models, and the numbers are not meant to be exact]
 

SemiMan

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I think your guess is as good as anything at this point. A quick email to the company would likely work.

Their efficiency is pretty low, so violet phosphor is possible.
 

Anders Hoveland

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Wait... Doesn't Bridgelux have very high CRI emitters for a few years now?
Yes, but those are blue-emitter. With the blue-emitter approach it is easier to achieve a higher CRI rating at a lower color temperature, because there is less blue in the spectrum, so the blue does not matter quite as much.
You will not find 97CRI LEDs much above 3000K that use blue emitters.

I will also point out that these 97CRI LEDs are very high-end and not really common. Probably takes a well engineered and very controlled phosphor formulation.
It is much easier for Yuji to achieve 97CRI; with simple tri-color [blue,green,red] LED phosphor that can be utilized with violet emitters, the phosphor formulation does not have to be as exacting.


Their efficiency is pretty low, so violet phosphor is possible.
You mean violet-emitter, blue phosphor. (just to be clear)

Using a violet emitter is inherently less efficient because it takes 12.5% more voltage to generate 400nm violet wavelengths than it does to produce 450nm blue. Then there are also additional Stokes losses from converting some of that violet into blue light through the blue phosphor. From the standpoint of efficiency, using a violet emitter to create high CRI light, with a super high (95-98) R9a value (deep red), at a low color temperature is not a very optimal approach.

That being said, a high quality 97CRI violet-emitter LED from a reputable brand like Soraa can still be more efficient than a really cheap low quality 82CRI off-brand LED.
 
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