Duracell Ion Core AA & AAA

[MidnightDistortions]

I like to do the refresh as well on any new pack of batteries I get just because I like to start with a full charge. I know it's not necessary but I just prefer it.

I do the same . It's a good thing anyway to make sure the batteries are in good working condition. Any battery that isn't producing similar mAh capacities will be marked or if needed, the pack exchanged for a new set.

 

[UnknownVT]

Well i used the La Crosse charger, i just recharged them to full capacity and then started a refresh.

I like to do the refresh as well on any new pack of batteries I get just because I like to start with a full charge.

Just for clarification on the term "refresh" please:

Do you actually use the Refresh Mode on the LaCrosse BC-700?

From the LaCrosse BC-700U pdf manual on Refresh Mode:


If so, on a newly opened pack of Ion-Core AA how many discharge/charge cycles does it go through?

Thanks

 

[MidnightDistortions]

Yes, i chose the refresh function. I only discharged the batteries once since it met the minimum mAh and didn't think it would have needed another discharge.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Do you find running through refresh cycles significantly increases the capacity of new LSD cells?

 

[UnknownVT]

Yes, i chose the refresh function. I only discharged the batteries once since it met the minimum mAh and didn't think it would have needed another discharge.

Thanks.

Again for clarification please, as I don't own a LaCross BC-700.

Do you mean you manually pull the battery when the charge (after discharge) is complete in the BC-700 Refresh Mode?
Is there a rest period before the BC-700 starts on the next discharge -
if not, do you have to be attentive to when to manually pull the battery?

Thanks,

 

[MidnightDistortions]

Do you find running through refresh cycles significantly increases the capacity of new LSD cells?

Thanks.

Again for clarification please, as I don't own a LaCross BC-700.

Do you mean you manually pull the battery when the charge (after discharge) is complete in the BC-700 Refresh Mode?
Is there a rest period before the BC-700 starts on the next discharge -
if not, do you have to be attentive to when to manually pull the battery?

Thanks,

You could actually use the test feature in the La Crosse charger (long as you didn't recharge them recently) to find out if you need to refresh them, which i will need to get another pack of Duracells to see if testing them would show full capacity. I did use them once after i got them so that might be the reason they were already showing full capacity.

I pulled the batteries out to change the mA (was at 700mA) to 500mA since using 700mA caused the battery temp to rise around 110F but also that i chose not to continue the refresh on the batteries. There's no rest period in between discharges/recharges but it'll trickle charge the batteries once they are full so i usually will pull them at the point they reach full capacity.

 

[UnknownVT]

You could actually use the test feature in the La Crosse charger (long as you didn't recharge them recently) to find out if you need to refresh them, which i will need to get another pack of Duracells to see if testing them would show full capacity. I did use them once after i got them so that might be the reason they were already showing full capacity.

I pulled the batteries out to change the mA (was at 700mA) to 500mA since using 700mA caused the battery temp to rise around 110F but also that i chose not to continue the refresh on the batteries. There's no rest period in between discharges/recharges but it'll trickle charge the batteries once they are full so i usually will pull them at the point they reach full capacity.

Sorry, I am more confused.

The Refresh Mode of the LaCrosse BC-700 - according to the manual says it continuously discharges then charges the batteries -
and will continue to do so until no increase in capacity is detected (up to a limit of 20 times).

Which means left to its own devices -
it HAS to do the discharge cycle at least twice to be able to determine if there is an increase in capacity (or not)

If what you are doing is pulling the batteries after one single discharge cycle to adjust the charging current -
then - why don't you just use the Discharge Mode - which according to the manual is a single discharge/charge cycle

To get your 500mA charge current - you still have to pull the battery at the end of the discharge cycle.

It seems that the action is the same -
is there is a reason to choose the Refresh Mode over the Discharge Mode, please?

 

[SaraAB87]

As far as I can see the refresh mode will cycle batteries until they meet their maximum mah. This is supposed to fix cells that are not charging properly including older cells.

The discharge discharges the remaining mah in a battery then charges it up, this is the mode I use all the time. It simply removes the remaining mah in the battery then switches to a regular charge cycle and stops when the battery is full.

 

[MidnightDistortions]

Sorry, I am more confused.

The Refresh Mode of the LaCrosse BC-700 - according to the manual says it continuously discharges then charges the batteries -
and will continue to do so until no increase in capacity is detected (up to a limit of 20 times).

Which means left to its own devices -
it HAS to do the discharge cycle at least twice to be able to determine if there is an increase in capacity (or not)

If what you are doing is pulling the batteries after one single discharge cycle to adjust the charging current -
then - why don't you just use the Discharge Mode - which according to the manual is a single discharge/charge cycle

To get your 500mA charge current - you still have to pull the battery at the end of the discharge cycle.

It seems that the action is the same -
is there is a reason to choose the Refresh Mode over the Discharge Mode, please?

I had originally chosen refresh because i had figured it would at least take a few cycles to regain full capacity but since all the batteries were up to spec, i didn't need to continue with the refresh. Plus i had set the batteries at 700mAh since for one they should have been near full capacity plus i had time restrictions so i wanted to refresh the batteries quicker but since they were heating up i had no choice but to reduce the charge rate.

Test, refresh and discharge all do the same thing except testing charges the battery to full discharges and then recharges. Discharge would discharge the battery first then recharge it. Refresh like you said will continue until there is no increase in capacity. I had stopped refreshing because after seeing the readings from the first discharge that another discharge wasn't needed. The capacity may have increased or not but i didn't need to know. If the batteries were reading under specs like under 2350mAh i would have just changed the charge rate and kept doing the refresh, though i would still have had to charge the battery back up to full.

 

[UnknownVT]

I had originally chosen refresh because i had figured it would at least take a few cycles to regain full capacity but since all the batteries were up to spec, i didn't need to continue with the refresh. Plus i had set the batteries at 700mAh since for one they should have been near full capacity plus i had time restrictions so i wanted to refresh the batteries quicker but since they were heating up i had no choice but to reduce the charge rate.

Test, refresh and discharge all do the same thing except testing charges the battery to full discharges and then recharges. Discharge would discharge the battery first then recharge it. Refresh like you said will continue until there is no increase in capacity. I had stopped refreshing because after seeing the readings from the first discharge that another discharge wasn't needed. The capacity may have increased or not but i didn't need to know. If the batteries were reading under specs like under 2350mAh i would have just changed the charge rate and kept doing the refresh, though i would still have had to charge the battery back up to full.

OK... I think I got it.

Using the refresh mode -
if after the first discharge you determine the capacity is up to spec -
you'd manually pull the battery to give it a final charge at 500mA.

If it's below spec -
then would you leave the battery(ies) in the Refresh Mode
until the capacity reads spec?

That seems (to me) a good reason to choose Refresh over Discharge.

Thanks

 

[MidnightDistortions]

OK... I think I got it.

Using the refresh mode -
if after the first discharge you determine the capacity is up to spec -
you'd manually pull the battery to give it a final charge at 500mA.

If it's below spec -
then would you leave the battery(ies) in the Refresh Mode
until the capacity reads spec?

That seems (to me) a good reason to choose Refresh over Discharge.

Thanks

Yep, you got it.

The only difference is i normally will charge it at 500mA, i wanted to speed things up a little since i wasn't going to be home if it was going to be refreshing for a few days. The Energizers were not all at full capacity a few cells were reading around 92% and i got them up to 95% which is where they did not gain any more capacity. I considered all the Duracell cells to be at 100% or more since they are rated at 2400mAh but i already know their internals are Eneloop Pros and they met those specs as well on the first discharge. I rarely do discharge, i use discharge mostly for older cells that won't handle a refresh unless i was specifically trying to get an updated max mAh capacity from them. Testing is another rare one too but it's good for cells that are mostly discharged and i want to get a capacity reading off of them.

 

[hiuintahs]

These Duracell Ion Core batteries are heavier than Eneloops. Anyone know what the weight of an Eneloop XX or Panasonic Pro AA battery is?
Here is what I measured weight wise for a few common AA batteries:

Duracell Ion Core - 30 grams
Eneloop - 26 grams
Duracell alkaline - 24 grams
Energizer L91 lithium - 14 grams

 

[ChrisGarrett]

These Duracell Ion Core batteries are heavier than Eneloops. Anyone know what the weight of an Eneloop XX or Panasonic Pro AA battery is?
Here is what I measured weight wise for a few common AA batteries:

Duracell Ion Core - 30 grams
Eneloop - 26 grams
Duracell alkaline - 24 grams
Energizer L91 lithium - 14 grams

HKJ measures a 'Japanese' market XX/Pro at 30gm.

So spot on with the Iron Core 2400s.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3HCC 2450mAh (Black) UK.html

Chris

 

[hiuintahs]

HKJ measures a 'Japanese' market XX/Pro at 30gm.

So spot on with the Iron Core 2400s.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3HCC 2450mAh (Black) UK.html

Chris

Thanks, just more validity to who we think makes these Ion Cores!

 

[gallon]

Thanks, just more validity to who we think makes these Ion Cores!

Yep. Made by Fujitsu.

 

[hiuintahs]

Yep. Made by Fujitsu.

Interesting. I've kind of got lost in any acquisitions that may have taken place in the past........assuming that is why "Fujitsu" was thrown out there. Key point being that all of us would be very happy to know that these Ion Cores are Eneloop technology.

 

[gallon]

Interesting. I've kind of got lost in any acquisitions that may have taken place in the past........assuming that is why "Fujitsu" was thrown out there. Key point being that all of us would be very happy to know that these Ion Cores are Eneloop technology.

hiuintahs, I am working up the story of the convoluted timeline. Don't have it all together yet. A major missing piece is the original patents, which I believe lie between Toshiba and Sanyo. For example, the Factory started out as a Toshiba installation.

Since 2009/2010 the Takasaki factory and the technology have been owned by Fujitsu. FDK is a Fujitsu subsidiary.

So, what we are calling Eneloops are really all Fujitsu's.

My take is that eneloop now has two definitions.

1) It is a Panasonic trademark, which they are also applying to their Chinese batteries.

2) It is an adapted term, like xerox, which to us means high quality batteries from the FDK Takasaki factory. 'eneloops'

So that name will forever be confused I fear.


Back to the Duracell Ion Cores.

At present, I am aware of four equivalent 2400 mAh eneloops, made in the Fujitsu factory.

The Fujitsu Silver HR-3UTHA.
The Panasonic Eneloop Pro BK-3HCC formerly the Eneloop XX.
The AmazonBasics High-Capacity Rechargeable Pre-Charged 2400 (part number)?.
The Duracell Ion Core.

I hold the Fujitsu and Panasonic match to be a near certainty.
I hold the AmazonBasics and Duracell to be 99% probable, given reviews, and comments, and histories.

Beyond those are two possibilites, there may be others.
The Twicell brand is a major brand, and they are made in the same factory. Not much further info at this time. Good research project for someone.
Costco, which we already know is a major vendor of eneloops. Conjecture is that they may choose to add the 2400 mAh version and they may one day decide to offer these under their own label. But this is my own conjecture.

That is the essence of it. I'll work up a bigger piece on all this, with some references and paste it up here for commentary. Like this comment, it will be a hypothesis for starters. It can form the seed for group knowledge of this fascinating technology.

One further bit of big news that I am trying to pin down is that the original patents may be about due to expire. Would appreciate it if anyone digs in to that. Start with Toshiba and Sanyo around the 2000 year.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Costco, which we already know is a major vendor of eneloops. Conjecture is that they may choose to add the 2400 mAh version and they may one day decide to offer these under their own label. But this is my own conjecture.

They already sell the Eneloop Pros, bundled with a charger. Too expensive, IMO. Their regular Eneloops and bundles are a much better deal.

 

[ChibiM]

hiuintahs, I am working up the story of the convoluted timeline. Don't have it all together yet. A major missing piece is the original patents, which I believe lie between Toshiba and Sanyo. For example, the Factory started out as a Toshiba installation.

Since 2009/2010 the Takasaki factory and the technology have been owned by Fujitsu. FDK is a Fujitsu subsidiary.

So, what we are calling Eneloops are really all Fujitsu's.

My take is that eneloop now has two definitions.

1) It is a Panasonic trademark, which they are also applying to their Chinese batteries.

2) It is an adapted term, like xerox, which to us means high quality batteries from the FDK Takasaki factory. 'eneloops'

So that name will forever be confused I fear.


Back to the Duracell Ion Cores.

At present, I am aware of four equivalent 2400 mAh eneloops, made in the Fujitsu factory.

The Fujitsu Silver HR-3UTHA.
The Panasonic Eneloop Pro BK-3HCC formerly the Eneloop XX.
The AmazonBasics High-Capacity Rechargeable Pre-Charged 2400 (part number)?.
The Duracell Ion Core.

I hold the Fujitsu and Panasonic match to be a near certainty.
I hold the AmazonBasics and Duracell to be 99% probable, given reviews, and comments, and histories.

Beyond those are two possibilites, there may be others.
The Twicell brand is a major brand, and they are made in the same factory. Not much further info at this time. Good research project for someone.
Costco, which we already know is a major vendor of eneloops. Conjecture is that they may choose to add the 2400 mAh version and they may one day decide to offer these under their own label. But this is my own conjecture.

That is the essence of it. I'll work up a bigger piece on all this, with some references and paste it up here for commentary. Like this comment, it will be a hypothesis for starters. It can form the seed for group knowledge of this fascinating technology.

One further bit of big news that I am trying to pin down is that the original patents may be about due to expire. Would appreciate it if anyone digs in to that. Start with Toshiba and Sanyo around the 2000 year.

Thanks for the digging. Appreciated!

Just a side note.... Fujitsu already produced some newer cells since July 2014, which are called HR-3UTHB.
THey seem to have the same specs though.. might just be another indication to show the difference between the Japanese market and overseas markets.
Just like the Eneloop XX ,HR-3UWXA, with the added A at the end, but never been sold in Japan, only overseas.
Same specs as the HR-3UWX

 

[gallon]

You are welcome ChibiM. Thank you in return for your services and knowledge.

And thank you for that Fujitsu update. At this point I think that whenever the 5th generation comes along, it will first be implemented in the Fujitsu line.

Have you considered adding Fujitsu to your sales lineup? I would think that to be entirely appropriate.

Do you know much about Twicell? They are made in the same facility, but are quite obscure here in North America.

Can you believe it? Somebody just offered a set of colored Disney AA's on Amazon at a not completely unreasonable price. I jumped on those.