EagleTac 18650 or AW 18650?
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They do. I had no problem charging my single ET 18650 in my WF 139.
There is nothing about protection in the description and there is no protection circuit visible on the pictures. But if the guy in the comment says they are protected...
Has anyone had problems with the Eagletac 18650 making contact in a T100C2? A friend of mine emailed saying he can't get them to work but they work fine in another light with a P60 style drop in. (His T100C2 does work with a AW 18650) It sounds like the positive end is not making contact. Does the Eagletac battery has a realy small button top or something?
DHart
Flashlight Enthusiast
Given all the presented data on runtimes, fitment issues, price, performance, etc. I'm totally sold on the Trustfire Black 2400 mAh cells at two for $10.. and a little surprised at choices for some of the competing cells, given the various issues that are being brought up. For the record, I did put my money on the black label Trusties... ordered a pair from DX for $10... can't wait to get 'em!
I ordered a batch of these, got them two days ago, charged ...
As I don't have a suitable discharger, I did a runtime test on Legion 2.
Runtime (max) on Panasonic NCR18650 2900mAH (1st charge):
2h52 starts blinking
2h55 shuts off
As a comparison:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2975299&postcount=45
Runtime (max) on 18650 AW 2600mAh (1st charge):
02h32 shuts off
MiniLux
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brightnorm
Flashaholic
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Because I survived a high-rise fire I tend to be very conservative and safety-oriented when it comes to LiON rechargeables. I'm sure that many other batteries are fine but I stick with Pila LiONs and charge them only in Pila's proprietary late generation charger. The batteries (in Pila chargers) have proven themselves over several years to be safe and very reliable.
Because of the Pilas vitually flawless record over the years I'm willing to spend a little more on these 2200mah batteries, even though there are others with more capacity and possibly just as safe.
Brightnorm
Because of the Pilas vitually flawless record over the years I'm willing to spend a little more on these 2200mah batteries, even though there are others with more capacity and possibly just as safe.
Brightnorm
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metlarules
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I use the Pila charger also. However, I've had excellent service and quality with AW's batteries. But I know what you mean.
richardcpf
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This means no offense to AW and his products, but I did the test and:
None of my 2 AW 2200ma 18650 protected the cell when they were at low voltage.. I did a full discharge with my TK11R2 and the readings were around 2.7v, however, I could keep draining them. My trustfire cells did not kick in neither.. My tenergy 18650 protected the battery at 2.9V.
Answering those people who wants to know if AW are worth a so much higher price, my answer would be No. His costumer service and support is nice, but speaking about the product, performance-wise, is not that good. Capacity is lower than my trustfires and tenergy, and protection circuit did not act like I expected.
This is just my personal opinion, and again, means no offense.
Those trustfires with fire wrapping looks nice, I wonder how long will their protection circuit last. I got 4 grey trustfires and one has a broken protection circuit, not a big issue for me, as long as you know how to take care and mantain li-ion cells, there are almost no difference between protected or not.
I found a link for Panasonic 2900ma 18650 According to graphs this is the best performing 18650 cell in the market. :twothumbs
None of my 2 AW 2200ma 18650 protected the cell when they were at low voltage.. I did a full discharge with my TK11R2 and the readings were around 2.7v, however, I could keep draining them. My trustfire cells did not kick in neither.. My tenergy 18650 protected the battery at 2.9V.
Answering those people who wants to know if AW are worth a so much higher price, my answer would be No. His costumer service and support is nice, but speaking about the product, performance-wise, is not that good. Capacity is lower than my trustfires and tenergy, and protection circuit did not act like I expected.
This is just my personal opinion, and again, means no offense.
Those trustfires with fire wrapping looks nice, I wonder how long will their protection circuit last. I got 4 grey trustfires and one has a broken protection circuit, not a big issue for me, as long as you know how to take care and mantain li-ion cells, there are almost no difference between protected or not.
I found a link for Panasonic 2900ma 18650 According to graphs this is the best performing 18650 cell in the market. :twothumbs
DHart
Flashlight Enthusiast
In several tests I've seen here and there, protection circuits in cells that claim to have them have not worked. From that, it's pretty clear to me that the Li-Ion user should really treat even protected li-ions as if they were unprotected. I do. And the more I read reports such as yours the more I realize that one just needs to understand the usage and charging requirements of non-protected li-ions and treat ALL li-ions, protected included, with the same respect.
Still eagerly awaiting my (two for $9.99) black & red label Trustie protected 18650 2400 mAh cells from DX. I think they're going to be great cells at a bargain price. And I'm going to basically treat them as though they are unprotected. 😉
Black Rose
Flashlight Enthusiast
Those cells perform great due to their low internal resistance.
I did a run time test with one of mine over the weekend with my modified 3-mode regulated Superbright R2 drop-in:
2 hours 26 minutes @ 1A before the circuit dropped to low mode by design.
True 2400 mAh (actually a little more) for basically $5.00 a piece.
Regarding the protection circuits triggering or not triggering, it depends on the current draw. If your light doesn't have that current draw or higher, it won't trigger the protection circuit. That applies to AWs cells as well as others.
DHart
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting... I didn't know that. So, it is likely that the majority of reported failed protection circuits are simply due to the draw not being enough? In either event, looks like it makes a lot of sense to treat a protected cell like a non-protected cell.
What is the minimum current required for the overdischarge protection to work?
I remember seeing the protection triggering at the currents below 5mA. That would translate to something around a single lumen or two emitted by an LED. Where did you get the information about the current requirement from?
Different protection circuits can have different cutoff voltage settings. Some of them as high as 3V some as low as 2.4V. I think AW's batteries are set on the lower end of the scale. They won't cut off at 2.7V, more like 2.5V - have you tried to go that low?
Black Rose
Flashlight Enthusiast
It depends on the protextion circuit being used.
From the 18650 shootout thread on light reviews.
I think it must be some kind of misunderstanding. Out of 8 batteries that Mev tested in this shootout, he reported the protection circuit working in only a single one. I suspect the circuits work correctly, but at lower levels than he expects.
Mev finished his AW battery test at 2.71V and AFAIK that's not the cutoff voltage for AW batteries. I tested that they cutoff at 2.47V - 2.50V. Andrew (AW) answered me in this thread that "most ICs are set to 2.45V". Indeed, in the protection ICs datasheets that I read the level was typically set to 2.3V-2.5V.
I would also love to hear what for the overdischarge protection circuit could possibly require the external current - never heard about it before :shrug:
brightnorm
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Could you please summarize the specifics of this approach. I think I'm quite safe with my Pilas/Pila chargers, but any additionl information would be helpful.
Brightnorm
DHart
Flashlight Enthusiast
Brightnorm... well... I'm definitely not the expert on this topic by any means, but I've read a lot of the li-ion use primers available on this forum and heard a number of the horror stories about venting, etc. I treat protected and unprotected li-ions the exact same way. While most of my li-ions are protected, a few are not. I never rely on the cells IC protection circuit to prevent a problem. It's just nice to know that the IC *may* help prevent a problem. I can boil down what I've learned to these things... for both protected and unprotected li-ions this is what I do, in a nutshell:
1) when charging, be around and aware enough to notice when the charger gives the green light and pull your cells off then! Don't charge if you're going to leave the house or go to sleep for the night.
2) immediately following charging, do a voltage test to confirm the charge isn't over "around" 4.19-4.2. There is no magic number here, just a guideline. And consider the inaccuracy potential of your DMM as well. That considered: 4.10 to 4.19 seems to be the "sweet" zone. Much over 4.2, like 4.25 or more, can damage the cell/cause bad things to happen. Check that the cells aren't getting too warm when charging as well.
3) don't use a charger which has a tendency to over charge.
4) make sure your charger is on a fire-proof base so if a melt down should occur, a fire is less likely to happen. (I use a 1/3" thick, 12"x12" granite tile as a base for my chargers. Some go so far as to use a fire-proof box to contain the charger.)
5) don't allow Li-Ions to over-discharge. Apparently going as low as about 2.7v may be ok if NECESSARY, but 3.0v to 3.2v is generally considered to be drained. I always top off my li-ions well before getting anywhere near that level. Li-Ions don't have a memory, so you can recharge/top-off anywhere in the working range (let's say that the proper working range is 3.4v to 4.2v). Typically I top off my Li-Ions when they get down to about 3.7 or so. Li-Ions require some conscientious attention... or don't use 'em!
6) in the event of a "venting event" 😉 do what you can to avoid inhaling any fumes!!!! Ideally, get the "event" out of your house. The fumes can be very hazardous to breathe.
7) Li-Ions should only be used by those who will learn the do's and don'ts of Li-Ions and strictly adhere to them... otherwise nasty things can (and DO) happen. Using Li-Ions ain't like your grandpa's alkalines! Be AWARE.
8) Li-Ions are an incredible powering technology offering tremendous potency to flashlights. Don't fear Li-Ions, there is no need to fear them if you understand what you're doing. Use them and enjoy their amazing power!
========
Note... Lithium-Ions (Li-Ions) are not to be confused with lithium primaries, Li-Ions are rechargeable and lithium primaries are not. Lithium primaries have their own set of dangers, however... they are safest when used singly. When used two or three together, cell matching is extremely important with lithium primaries... using two lithium primaries (CR123) which are mismatched can cause nasty venting events as well. To be safest, NEVER use two lithium primaries together in the same light at the same time unless you are sure they are well matched.
My preference in flashlights, mostly for safety reasons and also for convenience, is to use a single cell to power them whenever it is possible to do so. I also prefer to use Li-Ion cells in my lights whenever possible, with NiMH as a secondary source. I only keep primaries for back-up/emergency/long term storage use. I have a couple of lights/lamps which require two cells, but most of my lamp assemblies run happily on a single cell, whether it be a lithium primary or a 10440, 14500, 16340, 17500, or 18650. It's just a little simpler and somewhat safer that way.
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richardcpf
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If the protection circuit triggers only when the current reaches a certain number, then it fails to protect the cell.
I can discharge them at lets say 50ma and slowly kill the battery, the protection circuit will not cutoff? There is no point to adding "protection" since almost no flashlight will do a high current draw at those low voltages.
I'm buying panasonics 2800ma unprotected from now.
I can discharge them at lets say 50ma and slowly kill the battery, the protection circuit will not cutoff? There is no point to adding "protection" since almost no flashlight will do a high current draw at those low voltages.
I'm buying panasonics 2800ma unprotected from now.
