Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

RI Chevy

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Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.
 

bykfixer

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Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.

I remember in the 1980's fashion dictated jungle boots were cool. Meanwhile the citizenry were bothered by the blisters.
 

Modernflame

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When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.

Perhaps not. Maybe it would help to remember that having a bored out tube does not preclude the use of primaries. Unless I'm way off base, that was the thinking behind the Bones. I'm just advocating for a modular system that provides a choice of batteries and optics.

I know of at least one current contributor to this thread who likes to argue that the Elzetta optics are all wrong for battle anyway. Perhaps he'd like to choose another optic?
 

Grizzman

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The ability to change out the optics ourselves is a really cool feature....although all of my AVSs currently have spots installed. It's too bad that we're only offered the two options.

Some, including Elzetta's designers and myself, believe that enormous spill that fully illuminates a room to some degree is superior to having a sharp cutoff that allows the user to only illuminate what they wish. Having four optic options, full spot, spot with some spill, spill with some spot, and full spill should make pretty much everyone happy from a light output profile perspective.
 

Modernflame

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The ability to change out the optics ourselves is a really cool feature....although all of my AVSs currently have spots installed. It's too bad that we're only offered the two options.

Some, including Elzetta's designers and myself, believe that enormous spill that fully illuminates a room to some degree is superior to having a sharp cutoff that allows the user to only illuminate what they wish. Having four optic options, full spot, spot with some spill, spill with some spot, and full spill should make pretty much everyone happy from a light output profile perspective.

Exactly. I think that the virtues of Elzetta suit their lights to many applications, but even from a purely combat light or WML perspective, there are rifle mounted applications that would benefit from a narrower beam.
 

Beard Man

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Bored Elzetta with AVS head and primary 2xCR123 or rechargeable 2xLFP123A, 2x18350 or 1x18650 - is absolutely for ALL applications , and you have 500,600 or 900 lumens in hight output with Bravo 2-cell body !

In additional you can add a Low Profile (or standard) Bezel and Malkoff Drop-In's to the Bravo body,with absolutely different (in your choice) color tint and output.

Very flexible system!
 
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XR6Toggie

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Got my Charlie C133 delivered today. Took about ten days from order to delivery but the wait was worth it. It's very ergonomic and simple to operate. I got my name rank and number engraved on it for a bit more personalisation. It's a great light and I'm looking forward for it to get properly dark so I can try it out more. Next thing to do is get a belt holder for it.
 

Lumencrazy

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Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.


You just eliminated 99.9% of the sofa soldiers on this forum
 

Tachead

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Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.

The thing is, bare 18650's aren't much more expensive then 2 or 3 CR123a's these days and have more capacity so, that argument is kind of not valid. Not to mention that most LE and MIL are rarely away from a place to charge for more then a shift(Frogs and S.O. aside).
 
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RI Chevy

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You missed the point too.
Light WAS NOT designed around 18650 cells.
It is a military/LE designed light. Go to the site and view some of Dave's videos.
Completely designed around the CR123A cell.
Not trying to argue, just stating the obvious.
Light really is not designed or meant to be used for civilian use.
 

mk2rocco

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18650 cells cannot sit in a warehouse for 10 years and still work like cr123 cells. They also do not work in cold and hot environments as well. The cr123 is much better suited for hard use.

On a different note..

I just got my first Elzetta! A Charlie with a high/low tailcap and I'm really digging it. Plus at $150 in new condition I couldn't pass it up :)
 

Tachead

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You missed the point too.
Light WAS NOT designed around 18650 cells.
It is a military/LE designed light. Go to the site and view some of Dave's videos.
Completely designed around the CR123A cell.
Not trying to argue, just stating the obvious.
Light really is not designed or meant to be used for civilian use.

My point is that maybe Elzetta should consider designing their lights for both fuel sources and including a primary cell magazine like most other companies. Some people, including LE, MIL, and Private Security would prefer to use rechargeables for some of their uses.
 

XR6Toggie

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I think in law enforcement it's worth having at least two lights available. Having one use disposables and one using rechargeables is probably best of both worlds. That being said it's much easier and quicker for me to change out CR123s than go back to the car or office and plug an 18650 in to charge.
 

Tachead

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18650 cells cannot sit in a warehouse for 10 years and still work like cr123 cells. They also do not work in cold and hot environments as well. The cr123 is much better suited for hard use.

On a different note..

I just got my first Elzetta! A Charlie with a high/low tailcap and I'm really digging it. Plus at $150 in new condition I couldn't pass it up :)

It's true that primary lithium is best if ready to use(without the need to charge) after long term storage is a desired quality but, that is not always the case. Rechargeables offer several benefits for routine patrols. As for cold, unless we are talking about extreme cold(well below freezing), it doesn't make much of a difference. Hot temperatures don't have much of an immediate affect either. Generally, extreme hot and cold temperatures just reduce capacity and cycle life of a rechargeable cell but, it will still work just fine.

People always claim CR123a's are so much better for hard use but, I think this somewhat of a myth based on old low quality protected cells. Modern high quality unprotected 18650's are still great choices for hard use. In fact, Nasa trusts them enough to use them as their primary power source on the space shuttle which is exposed to far more vibration, shock, etc. then your average duty flashlight lol.
 
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mk2rocco

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My duty light is an 18650 Hound Dog that I run unprotected 18650 cells in, I've had zero issues. I carry 1 spare 18650 in my cargo pocket (in a Oveready capsule) and 6 spare cr123 cells in my duty bag. The biggest issue I've run into is trying to get my partners to up their flashlight game. For a flashaholic we don't think of using lithium cells as difficult, but there is a steep learning curve and no one I work with wants to mess with it. They all prefer their NIMH battery lights that just slide into a wall or vehicle mounted charger.

I'm with you that UNPROTECTED cells are durable and can be used hard use senarios. I still think cr123 cells are more fool proof and better suited for them.
 
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Tachead

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I think in law enforcement it's worth having at least two lights available. Having one use disposables and one using rechargeables is probably best of both worlds. That being said it's much easier and quicker for me to change out CR123s than go back to the car or office and plug an 18650 in to charge.

Yes, having a backup light is always a good idea no matter what it is powered by.

Keep in mind, there is no reason you can't keep a couple of charged 18650's in your pocket and swap them out as needed just like Cr123a's.

I definitely think there is a place for CR123a's but, I just think the user should have the choice. Designing a light to work on both is the perfect solution imo.
 

RI Chevy

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I am sure Elzetta has pondered the thought. Maybe they just don't want to compromise their original design.
They did come out with a bones model for 18650s.
I can't speak for them. Just restating their mission statements.
There are plenty if other options if one is looking for primary 18650 use.
Cell stability is really paramount. CR123A cells are much more stable than current 18650 cells.
If I were in military, I certainly would not want to be carrying around a charger in my ruck sack.
 

XR6Toggie

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Yes, having a backup light is always a good idea no matter what it is powered by.

Keep in mind, there is no reason you can't keep a couple of charged 18650's in your pocket and swap them out as needed just like Cr123a's.

I definitely think there is a place for CR123a's but, I just think the user should have the choice. Designing a light to work on both is the perfect solution imo.

Being new to this makes me a bit wary of 18650s. I know that they need a little bit more care taken with them and there are a few more steps involved with properly and safely charging, using and storing them. I don't doubt that it would be easy to learn these things and getting a good charger and storage case isn't too hard to do but I want to make sure I get it right.

I suppose I might be the sort of customer Elzetta makes their lights for. I'm sure there is a similar concept worldwide of making duty gear 'cop proof' ie simple to use and tough to break. Elzetta do this by sticking to disposables. Streamlight do it by sticking with Nimh batteries that stay in the flashlight and just get left in the charger at the end of the shift until the next shift starts.

If Elzetta make their name by their durability and reliability I can understand why they wouldn't want to have soldiers and cops break their lights by misuse of rechargeable lithium batteries and take it out on the brand rather than user error.
 

KuroNekko

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I respect the quality of the products from manufacturers like Streamlight, Surefire, Elzetta, and Malkoff, but like the discussion of the battery types shows, there are trade-offs. The main issue with them is that these brands make products for law enforcement and military in mind hence their designs, outputs, and purpose is really for those clients rather than a general user. They often focus on durability and simple modes for reliability and predictable output. That's great for a LEO and military user, but for a general user or even an outdoor user, it's far from practical and in fact, detrimental. Many products of these US-made, tactically-mind products only have two modes, if that. Not exactly great for flexibility and optimizing run times vs. output. Also, like the latest posts show, makers often prioritize the use of primaries for reliability over rechargeable lithium ions. I get why, as primary lithiums have a long shelf life, are less sensitive to extreme temperatures, and less prone to failures from battery chemistry. This makes them better for use in mission-critical situations or where you simply just need it to work on the first try. However, always using primaries on a power-hungry tactical flashlight isn't economical. As a guy who often went camping with a SL Scorpion and a Surefire 6P two decades ago, I loved their intense output, but didn't like how their single modes drained the expensive batteries. I ended up only using them when I really had to. Now, a lot of the Chinese brands offer flexibility with multiple outputs and modes, so the user, not the maker, has more control over the product and its use. I appreciate this approach given I really don't use a flashlight for tactical purposes.

Simply put, I think US-made brands like Elzetta, Surefire, and the like make excellent products but really only for the tactical user. For a weapon-mounted light, these are the best ones to get given the durability, reliability, and simple output modes. However, for general use or even outdoor recreation, I find brands like Fenix, Klarus, Nitecore, etc. to make much better overall products given all the options you have with them ranging from outputs, modes, to battery types.

I'd like to buy an Elzetta or Malkoff one day, but for me to justify that, I'd need a few of my other flashlights to fail and break first.
 
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