Emitter pattern - Throw vs. Flood

[blinkjr]

Hi All.

Guess it's just the new year, but here I am posting another question.

I have searched the forum, but can't find a answer to this:

Are there emitters that are better at producing more flood than throw and vice versa? I realize that the reflector shape and size are significant determining factors for this. But I would think that certain emitters in conjunction with reflector design would produce a more desired output.

For instance, if I want a light that will illuminate an area with little or no hotspot, what is the best emitter to accomplish that? I don't want to throw in a diffuser, as I believe that cuts down on total lumens output.

Conversely, if I want a good hotspot, with minimal spill, what is(are) the top emitter(s) for that. And here, no asperical lenses. Just a good marriage of emitter and reflector design.

I am assuming that lumens output is remaining constant here in comparisons. That is, if we have 100 lumens out the front from one emitter, I want 100 lumens out the front for other emitters.

I think the genesis of this question came from my receipt of a quality light recently. It is more of a thrower than a "wall of light." And as nice as it is, the hotspot is too bright at close range. So, it seems that one would need to carry two lights at all times. One that's a thrower - to light up distant objects or stun/blind an intruder. The other a flood that can really light up an area, be it a room or your yard.

I appreciate any "illumination" you can bring to me concerning question.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Physics-wise, the smaller a light source is, the easier it is to focus into a tighter beam. That's why big LEDs, like multi-die P7s or large single dies like the SST-50, need a much bigger reflector than a smaller die LED to get a similar beam. Even within the smaller LEDs, the relatively larger XP-G will be a bit less focused than the relatively smaller XR-E. Which is why we have the situation of people saying, "Got my new XP-G light, it's supposed to be brighter than my old XR-E, but it doesn't look like it". That's because their old XR-E, with the same size reflector, was focused into a tighter and brighter hotspot. We advise, "try a ceiling bounce test", where they'll confirm that the XP-G is putting out more light, it's just that the brightest part of the hotspot might not be as bright.

 

[blinkjr]

So - would an SST-50 with an OP reflector give a nice flood of light? Is it impossible to have just a smooth illumination - no hot spot? What about a Malkoff M60F? Does this have a hotspot, or does it just nicely light up the room?

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Unfortunately I don't know specifics because I don't have any super floody lights. But my general impression is that just about any LED, if it's unreflectored or the reflector is extremely wide, will give off a fairly even wall of light. So the floodier zebra headlamps, and Mcgizmo's super floody light, do not need giant multi-die LEDs; instead, they just use a really wide-angle reflector. I'm sure someone will chime in with details and example lights.

 

[Viper715]

There are several production lights that put out no hot spot just pure flood beam. They are the Dereelight CL1H V4 NOHS, the Zebralight headlamps and soon to be Zebralight flashlights, 4Sevens RGB has a nice flood to it and Coast LED Lensers I think are adjustable from flood to throw with an optic. Also Malkoff M60F and M30F and M60MCE all are very nice flood as well.

As for individual LED's what has been said above is true. The Cree XR-E and XP-E are small and are more easily focused the newer XP-G is a little bigger and is floodier in the same reflector as the former but is more efficent. The Cree MCE is a quad die and requires a much larger reflector to achieve a similar sized hotspot.

Then there is SSC LED's. The P4 is similar to the XR-E it is built on the same platform but has a smoother beam. The P7 is SSC's MCE being a quad Die monster.

Phatlight is producing the ST-50 and St-90 large die LED's. These are very large LED's that require lots of power to see there full potential and require a lot of heatsinking. They put out more lumens but are very large and such being harder to focus.

 

[Rexlion]

+1 on Joe's comments. The MC-E and P7 are considered 'floody' emitters because the 4 dies are all off center somewhat and a given reflector can't bring it all into a tight beam as well as a single die that's centered. I have a PLI and it's pretty floody. I also have an Energizer 1W with shallow reflector that's been modded with a MC-E and it's much more floody. But a Zebralight with little or no reflector is going to be even more floody than those. I have a P7-modded mag that can be extremely floody or can be focused down until it has enough throw that you can see foliage over 400' away. So although there are some emitters that don't lend themselves well to throw, the biggest factor with any light is the reflector and lens system.

 

[applevision]

+1 on everything that's been said.

Of my lights, my Zebralight H501 is the floodiest and is amazing! I am addicted to the smooth, even beam and, as I have become more sophisticated as a flashaholic, I realize that good floody beams are the most wonderful for close work.

The new Quark MiNi 123 from 4sevens is also fairly floody with the XPG and does a nice job of giving a large hotspot that more gradually diffuses into the spillbeam.

I cannot recommend these lights enough and have purchased 5 (five!) MiNi 123s for self + friends and 2 Zebralights...
:twothumbs

 

[jblackwood]

Yeah, P7's and MC-E's are pretty well suited to flood but your question is a dangerous one. For example, one of my most recent purchases was an Elektrolumens EDC-MCE. It has the same emitter as my only other MC-E light, the Dereelight DBS with an MC-E pill and an OP reflector. The emitters are basically the same. Since the EDC-MCE is run direct-drive, I'd bet there are more lumens coming out of it initially versus my DBS, but the way the DBS focuses the light with it's reflector throws it so much farther than the EDC-MCE. Using it upclose, though, shows a very limited disc of light. Somehow, the EDC-MCE's light goes all around to create a wall of light, but that light dissipates at relatively short distances. Keep in mind, though I say the DBS throws the light much farther than the EDC-MCE, it still doesn't throw light anywhere near as far as when it's loaded with an R2 pill.

I hope this helps. You could go with applevision's suggestion and use the excellent Zebralight lineup. Keep in mind that the floodier the light, the harder it's going to be to use at a distance. There's also the Surefire A2L. It's the closest thing to two flashlights you can get (aside from the McGizmo LS20, but you can't get that unless it's on the Marketplace anymore).

 

[blinkjr]

applevision - thanks! I'll look at the Zebralights and the Quark mini.

Jblackwood - thank you also! In your description, the Elecktrolumens sounds exactly what I am looking for - smooth, even light everywhere. For this light I don't need throw.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. lovecpf

 

[jblackwood]

It's what we're all here for, brother! I know you've been with us for about two months now, but :welcome: anyway!

BTW lovecpf too!

 

[jblackwood]

One more thing you might consider, though, the Elektrolumens EDC-MCE has one setting: bright 500 lumens. Since it's much more spread out than the DBS, which has a comparable lumen rating on max, the EDC-MCE spreads it out a lot more and it might be little bit less bright if you try to use it up close. I don't know if you're taking close up work into consideration. You can get the DBS with a 3 stage pill (3SM for the MC-E) which gives you the flexibility to turn down the light. Maybe the EDC-MCE will light up everything so well, your eyes adapt, wrecking your night vision. Meh. I'm not sure right now. I'll let you know if I remember to check when I get home.

 

[blinkjr]

It's what we're all here for, brother! I know you've been with us for about two months now, but :welcome: anyway!

BTW lovecpf too!

Thanks for the welcome. I was actually a lurker for about a year before joining. It's a wonderful forum.