EMP question

Coop57

Enlightened
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Location
Dark Western PA
I am reading a fictional book titled "One Second After". It is about a small town in western North Carolina and it's trial and tribulations after an EMP or Electro Magnetic Pulse. This is when a nuclear bomb is detonated high up (35,000 feet) in the atmosphere. It fries all electronic circuits. Cars, computers, appliances etc all go down.
My question is would this type of event disable common batteries?
 
Wait, am I missing something here? Without any electronics in them, how would a regular battery (ie: Duracell Alkaline AAA) be fried? :thinking: Circuit protected rechargeable cells would be toast, but only bc of their electronic controls.
 
Off topic, but awesome book! If you have not read "Alas, Babylon" I highly recommend it. If memory serves, John (the lead in One second after) finds a 6-cell light under the seat of his car very early in the book that still works.
 
EMPs are the source of a lot of concern especially here where we depend 100% on the electrical grid. EMPs are just a really powerful burst of radiation all the way across the EM spectrum. If you want a mild example, watch an aluminum sided house during a lighting storm, lightning produces small EMP and the siding will absorb it and sometimes you can see a spark jump from the siding to the ground.

What happens is that the radiation knocks lots of electrons in any conductor loose and tends to overload circuits. Farraday cages can protect from this (copper mesh). Another good book you should read is Solar Flare, similar premise but much more likely and devastating.
 
to MorePower --


Thank you for your contributions here. :thumbsup:


I always appreciate yer' input and comments on Batteries.


_
 
line a Pelican case with a faraday cage and put your lights and batts into it...

:naughty:
 
From the last "When EMPs Attack" thread:

We've covered this topic before (it just sounds like a CPF topic, doesn't it) and it turns out that it would be possible for a hypothetical ICBM-armed enemy to do an EMP-specific attack: Setting off a warhead ~120 miles above Los Angeles, for example, would be sufficient to blackout not just the West Coast, but *everything west of the Rockies*, with no blast, heat, or (nuclear) radiation damage at all.

The catch is the aforementioned ICBM - only the countries that can afford the most advanced defense systems have them, so this technique isn't possible for "terrorists" (who are more likely to use a dirty bomb) or even the North Koreans (would use a standard blast nuclear attack), though China could do it.

If you're truly distressed by remote possibility of an EMP attack, or you just want to try a fun project, you can build your own EMP-proof box. Just grab any container (Pelican case, cigar box, even a cardboard box) and some copper screening (available at your local crafts store) - coat the entire exterior of the container with the copper screening, ensuring the screening touches at the seams/openings and there's no bare spots. That's it. Place a small radio tuned to a strong local station inside the box, and if all it receives is static when the box is closed, it works - you now have a fully EMP-proof utility box. :thumbsup:

Now prepare for this thread to be closed :tinfoil:
 
StarHalo, you post would not close it. Your comment about it being closed might be considered "baiting". Why would you post something to see if it would close the thread. Wouldn't that be a dis-service to the OP? Maybe I got you wrong here. If so I apologize in advance.

Bill
 
Still an interesting thread,
even if this subject has been previously discussed.


Fer' instance . . . .


I'd never heard of those Books before.


Thank you to everyone for the comments and postings.
 
Why would you post something to see if it would close the thread. Wouldn't that be a dis-service to the OP?

It's not me - the mods are sick of seeing threads on the topic of EMPs and will usually close one not long after it has begun. I just try to copy and paste my form response before it gets closed, and provide forewarning.
 
You guessed wrong.

Common primary cells and unprotected rechargeable cells would be fine.

Sorry, but I disagree for the following reason:

EMP according to Wiki is: "
The term electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) has the following meanings:
  1. A burst of electromagnetic radiation from an explosion (especially a nuclear explosion) or a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.
  2. A broadband, high-intensity, short-duration burst of electromagnetic energy."
I still feel that if you apply a damaging current or voltage to a battery in forward or reverse direction it will fry it.
 
I think some things would be disabled, not everything though. Impossible to predict though.
 
Sorry, but I disagree for the following reason:

EMP according to Wiki is: "
The term electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) has the following meanings:
  1. A burst of electromagnetic radiation from an explosion (especially a nuclear explosion) or a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.
  2. A broadband, high-intensity, short-duration burst of electromagnetic energy."
I still feel that if you apply a damaging current or voltage to a battery in forward or reverse direction it will fry it.

OK, I could see that if they were plugged into an electronic device. Alkalines would be poof, from the sudden recharge of that million+ volts. But I still think that if they were to just be sitting in a plastic container, nothing would be wrong with them.
 
i think it really depends on how close you would be to ground zero and the intensity of the EMP. Ideally an EMP turns ANY conductor into a generator, this means anything with metal, unclean water, etc etc would suddenly have thousands maybe millions of volts surging through it. (Stick a fork or some tinfoil in the microwave and you'll see what i mean) I think it would definitely blow your batteries, if someone wants to microwave some old RCR123s safely in an old microwave a long ways from civilization and not breathe the smoke, this might be a good experiment to put it to rest. (please no one actually microwave anything...i'm not liable if you burn your house down or poison yourself with deadly fumes) I GUARANTEE your batteries will not be useable after more than ten seconds in a microwave, but then again an EMP only lasts a second or less...
 
Sorry, but I disagree for the following reason:

EMP according to Wiki is: "
The term electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) has the following meanings:
  1. A burst of electromagnetic radiation from an explosion (especially a nuclear explosion) or a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.
  2. A broadband, high-intensity, short-duration burst of electromagnetic energy."
I still feel that if you apply a damaging current or voltage to a battery in forward or reverse direction it will fry it.

I think the key phrase is "may couple with electrical/electronic systems", and the coupling is the key. I deal with EMC/EMI issues at work, so I know that the coupling of EM energy is the biggest concern usually.

For far-field EM, the first question is "how big is your antenna relative to the wavelength"? The less wire you have hanging off of your device, the smaller the antenna is, and the less energy you'll couple into it. For a disconnected battery, the antenna loop area or dipole length are remarkably small. It usually forms a pretty good Faraday cage all by itself.

I'm not saying there can't be any damage to a battery, but I'd be more worried about the devices that you would put the battery into.

regards,
Steve K.
 
i guess our batteries would be pretty useless with anything to put them in eh?:duh2:
 
Typically the countries that have access to EMP type weapons probably would not use them except in dire circumstances while the ones that would use such weapons would rather cause people to die also because a weapon only capable of EMP and not nuclear fallout would be harder for them to get and less terrorizing. In other words if you ever were in range of an EMP burst you probably would not survive long enough to worry about electronic stuff chances are the radiation would kill you if the explosion didn't. Unless you are into soldiering I would spend what money you would put into EMP proofing something into other more useful things instead.
 

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